Why is France mocked and bashed so much?

[DrNewGod]

Ironically, if there is one thing that Americans SHOULD blame the French for, it's their short-sighted obsession with maintaining their colonial empire post-WW2, which eventually ended up dragging us into Vietnam after they were defeated there. The Vietnamese communists were really just nationalists with a shaky commitment to socialism, and it was only France's boneheaded determination to hold on to the territory to the bitter end that ended up driving the Vietnamese to closer ties with the Soviets and Chinese. And of course, this all arose because the French were still suffering the humiliation of their quick defeat in WW2 and wanted to reclaim their national pride and place as a world power, a rather commonplace motive throughout history for nations seeking to blunder into ruinous, unwinnable conflicts.

Nah, it was our own predilection for patella-reflex classifications over studying situations that got us entangled in Vietnam. "That Minh-guy's a Red" was where the analysis of Vietnamese goals and intentions stopped. It didn't help that the 1950's Red Scare purges had pretty well emptied the foreign and intelligence services of most of the experts on East Asia.

As for the French, yeah, they probably tried to hang onto the previous' century's business model for too long, but we can't blame our own stupidity on them.

[abulafia]

Yeah the French resistance is very important. It also had a big influence on the OSS and thus later the CIA

well, i think some credit should also go to the polnish exile networks. poor fellas never get any respect...

wait, a thread about france and no al bundy yet?

[Kees_L]

Ironically, if there is one thing that Americans SHOULD blame the French for, it's their short-sighted obsession with maintaining their colonial empire post-WW2, which eventually ended up dragging us into Vietnam after they were defeated there. The Vietnamese communists were really just nationalists with a shaky commitment to socialism, and it was only France's boneheaded determination to hold on to the territory to the bitter end that ended up driving the Vietnamese to closer ties with the Soviets and Chinese. And of course, this all arose because the French were still suffering the humiliation of their quick defeat in WW2 and wanted to reclaim their national pride and place as a world power, a rather commonplace motive throughout history for nations seeking to blunder into ruinous, unwinnable conflicts.

I'm not a military or Vietnam war buff, but I would say that as far as ANY of let's say European public opinion or existing mindsets towards the German occupation, as originating in close if not personal experience, there would have NEVER existed or be existing any idea that the French army on its own should or could have 'defended' itself any better than how it will have done.

The Allied Forces could take to ground war with positioning themselves appropriately, only and no sooner than well into the war, once the German occupation had been settling and enforcing itself for years already, so the situation for the Netherlands or France or Scandinavia would have been that any national military or either government bodies (as remaining still loyal instead of deserting) were to minimize casualties which would mean to not dig themselves in to no avail.

Which had the situation arise (for huge regions all over Europe quite commonly and openly) that resistance did NOT stop - it merely went UNDERGROUND. It de-militarised in appearance so to speak - for becoming covert altogether.
Even if the German occupation 'took over' government buildings or whatever strategic places or institutions - whole countries in name even - none of that will neededly 've been meaning *surrender* at all, but more rather that the inner workings, the personnel both as resources to mostly anything would go UNDERGROUND, so as the occupiers wouldn't get to it or only as merely thinking they would have.

In other words: to say that "France suffered a quick defeat during WW2" would but HARDLY be seeming much an accurate representation of actual affairs - historically both as realistically or either militarily speaking.

If you want to sound knowledgeable at all on the subject, you ought to be aware of this, I'd say.

[RLAAMJR.]

Any French musicians you enjoy? Francis Cabrel? Jean Jacques Goldman? Or from an earlier era Aznavour, Piaf, Brel, Brassens, Halliday ou Gainsbourg. Peut-etre Manu Chao, les Rita Mitsouko, Berurier Noir ou Daft Punk?

Don't want to be overly defensive but I learnt French before English and have never liked that habit of taking shots at the French.

Actually I was referring to the 6th best selling artist in France: http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=165062 in which one of her french albums is the best-selling album in France: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...bums_in_France

But I've heard of Goldman because of her.

[caramon]

well if you have to deal with French customers on a daily basis - no more questions.........unorganised, rude, confused.......but Allez les bleues!

[JaggedFel]

Meh its hard to win when u got a border right next to Germany and they have been building up their military for an assualt. The Brits only hold out because guess what a body of water between u and ur opponents makes it very hard for ur opponents to develop the logistical highway to invade not hard to develop logistics when u are right next to the target

[Ghost]

Yeah I've always appreciated the irony of France being a historical revolutionary ally with the US to being considered the country without a backbone.

I dont think their backbone was (falsely) questioned until WW2. But France has had strained relations with Americans since the Seven Years War, and the foreign relations issues following the American Revolution.

It dates back mostly to World War 2.
France pretty much relied on the rest of the allied powers to save it, didn't even put up a slight fight against Germany.
As an American myself, I've come to find that french people tend to joke about us like we're a bunch of immoral freedom hungry morons.
Like, I don't care how high society your culture is, or whatever, just remember which one of us that ISIS successfully has done operations on the soil of.

Thats not quite true. If you were familiar with world history you would know the French have zero issues with getting their hands bloody. Their soldiers fought bravely in WW2 as they always have, but their leadership completely failed them. Even the Germans were surprised at how quickly they broke their lines, if that tells you anything. And come on, everyone makes jokes about Americans... most of us ARE immoral morons and I have no problem joking about that

There's also the language factor-- unlike other nations were learning another language is promoted and celebrated, it's treated as a chore in the United States. There are far too many Ameircan people who feel that only English should be spoken because the US is (in their minds) the greatest nation in the world. There's always been a isolationist streak in American culture.

To be fair, its like that anywhere really. Ive never understood why the US gets singled out for that. English has become the most widespread 2nd language in the world (maybe Mandarin will eventually take that role?) but remember at one point it was French instead. Imagine going to a French court and not knowing a lick of French and expecting to discuss diplomacy... you would be considered an incompetent dullard. Sure many other nationalities know English, but going to their country and not knowing at least some of their language is just lazy, if not rude imo.

[Look]

culture clash

[mugiwara]

For years, we named Wolverine, "Serval" and Wolfsbane, "Felina".

If that's not good reason enough to hate us, I don't know what you need.

[Doctor Druid]

It took Germany only six weeks to conquer France in 1940, although French did suffer massive casualties.

This was largely because of tactical deployment errors.

France didn't even put up a slight fight against Germany.

Please look into the French Resistance.

[DrNewGod]

It took Germany only six weeks to conquer France in 1940, although French did suffer massive casualties.

This was largely because of tactical deployment errors.

Actually, it took the Germans several months (September 1939-June 1940). Part of this was a period of minimal conflict on the Western Front known as "The Sitskrieg", during which the Germans were redeploying their armies from Poland to the West. The error on France's part was not tactical, but strategic.

The French held to the idea that future wars would be like WWI, fought as attempts to overwhelm fixed fortifications, which was not an unpopular idea at the time. So, they invested most of their strength in their Maginot Line, ignoring the potential of advances in tank- and air-power technology. Moreover, few believed it was possible to moved armored columns through heavily vegetated terrain, like the Ardens Forest.

Had France attempted (or had the assets to attempt) an invasion of Germany during the months that the Reich was redeploying from Poland, things might have been very different. Similarly, had the Germans attempted an assault on France immediately, it's unlikely it would have gone so well for them.

So, the German's overwhelming of France was not a matter of the French being unable or unwilling to fight. It was a matter of the Germans managing to swing behind their lines, from an unexpected direction, rendering most of the French Army's strength useless, and cutting off their supplies.

[codystarbuck]

I hate France because France would not allow our B-111 Bombers to fly through their air space to bomb Libyan Military Bases after Libya bombed a discotheque in West Berlin in 1986 that was frequented by U.S. Servicemen.
The planes had to fly around France to get to their target.


"On April 5, 1986 three people were killed and around 230 injured when La Belle discothèque was bombed in West Berlin. The entertainment venue was commonly frequented by United States soldiers, and two of the dead and 79 of the injured were American servicemen.

A bomb placed under a table near the disk jockey's booth exploded at 1:45 am CET instantly killing Nermin Hannay, a Turkish woman, and U.S. sergeant Kenneth T. Ford. A second American sergeant, James E. Goins, died from his injuries two months later. Some of the victims were left permanently disabled due to the injuries caused by the explosion.

Libya was accused of sponsoring the bombing by the US government, and US President Ronald Reagan ordered retaliatory strikes on Tripoli and Benghazi in Libya ten days later. The strikes reportedly killed at least 15 people, including Colonel Qaddafi's adopted daughter."

The US government had been deliberately provoking Libya for some time, with naval maneuvers in contested waters. The government offered up no evidence (publicly, at least) that Libya was behind the terrorist bombing. France had been at odds with Libya in the fighting in Chad, so they had no vested interest in protecting Libya; but, they also had no interest in escalating tensions in North Africa on the basis of what appeared to be unsubstantiated claims of the Reagan Administration (who had already concocted one "war" in Grenada). France refused permission for the bombing mission based on lack of evidence, pure and simple.

Meanwhile, there is no such thing as a B-111. It was the F-111; a fighter-bomber.

[abulafia]

For years, we named Wolverine, "Serval" and Wolfsbane, "Felina".

If that's not good reason enough to hate us, I don't know what you need.

well, "serval" is much better than "lobenzo", which sounds like the evil gay twin of a soap opera prince charming character named lorenzo.
i don´t see spain getting any flak for that...

(memo to myself: create a new thread with the most funny foreign translation of american super heroes. nominated: de vegelders(NL), spindelmannen(SWE) and ofc lobenzo(ESP).)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

especially by the Americans and British? and especially in pop culture, media, entertainment, and society?

and why does the USA and UK like to take shots at France so much and like to make fun of them and laugh at their military capabilities and such?

is France one of the most hated or mocked countries in the world?

Because they're cheese eating surrender monkeys.

And they worship Jerry Lewis !

[Totoro Man]

The US government had been deliberately provoking Libya for some time, with naval maneuvers in contested waters. The government offered up no evidence (publicly, at least) that Libya was behind the terrorist bombing. France had been at odds with Libya in the fighting in Chad, so they had no vested interest in protecting Libya; but, they also had no interest in escalating tensions in North Africa on the basis of what appeared to be unsubstantiated claims of the Reagan Administration (who had already concocted one "war" in Grenada). France refused permission for the bombing mission based on lack of evidence, pure and simple.

Meanwhile, there is no such thing as a B-111. It was the F-111; a fighter-bomber.

to be fair, the B-111 would have been a better name for it. the only reason it got called the F-111 was because of political shenanigans.