Last Days Black Widow #20 Spoilers

[jackolover]

I'm not sure how I feel about these Last Days issues as a testament to the legacy of the Black Widow in the 616. Granted Natasha was a vicious killer in her past, and this series shows one of those incidents that displays the assassin in all her detached glory, killing Cuban citizens trying to escape Castro. But what this says about the Avenger Natasha, trying to rescue people to take to the Raft in the last Incursion, I have trouble seeing the relevance. In Nats first mission in Cuba in the 1950's, she kills the family, her associate contact, Marina, and Marina's boyfriend and Marinas cat. In the Avengers Quinjet, all the people she transports are killed before they get to the Raft. Is this Karma?

Don't go near the Black Widow because all she brings is death? I'm not sure Nat would have liked this epitaph, but it may have been earned.

[Muffin Crud]

I really, really didn't like that.

there was something so exceptionally gratuitous and shock value-ey about their deaths, especially the cat's. I'm not pleased with illustrating needlessly cruel actions in order to illustrate her path to redemption so it just rubbed me the wrong way. The Natasha of old obviously did awful things but it was at least rooted in brainwashed mission precision. To conflate that with terminator-like sensibilities displayed here is just...eck.

[responsarbre]

Well, to be fair, that wasn't at all Edmondson's intention - he was trying to show how she was doing everything in her power to save lives, the extent of how much she cares and all that. Their fate isn't shown in the issue, and since Natasha dies with them, I think it's something that only makes her own heroism more tragic.

Having said that, I really agree about not liking this issue so much. I mean - okay, even if we do buy into the premise that Natasha is this brainwashed, subhuman, unfulfilled killer, so much of the stuff in this issue was over-the-top to the point of almost being ridiculous. I don't see Natasha as the type of person who ever said "Shall I kill the child?", and especially not someone to suggest that and get yelled at by her creepy abusive superior. And, killing Marina without so much as shedding a tear? Her childhood friend who mattered so much to her? Killing her cat?

I think there are more effective ways to show Natasha's bad deeds than that. They didn't even show whether or not it pained her to do these things; the only pages that implied or addressed her regret were the bookends. Like Muffin Crud said, it felt like it was for shock value with no real follow-up.

Not to mention, I still think the super-violent, brainwashed, childhood-less interpretation of her past doesn't really fit her. Her first appearances were as an evil spy, yes, but she acted more like a mustache twirling-supervillain rather than an emotionless killer. She was portrayed sympathetically from the get-go. She might not have stuck to the Avengers code of "no killing" when she first hung around them, but she still didn't really care for using guns up to a decade later. She was very emotional from the get-go; her origin showed her becoming who she was because of love and a sense of duty, not because she was brainwashed into being the perfect tool. I think pushing that to the point where you get an issue like this doesn't really understand the intense emotion inherent in the character. It doesn't understand her textured view on life that comes from being a soldier and a wanderer and an athlete and an artist and a polyglot. It makes her boring and narrow, and that's what frustrates me the most.

[Conway]

I sort of understand why the fans aren't big on this story. I think the idea of showing both her beginning and her end worked well as a story point. It isn't the best way of showing everything but it did do a good job of showing why she feels so guilty and needs the redemption her jobs provided.

It did nothing to clear up the real question of if 616 Nat was one of the people Doom pulled when he brought Manhattan to Doomworld. All in all it wasn't what I would have hoped from a final issue.

[Muffin Crud]

Well, to be fair, that wasn't at all Edmondson's intention - he was trying to show how she was doing everything in her power to save lives, the extent of how much she cares and all that. Their fate isn't shown in the issue, and since Natasha dies with them, I think it's something that only makes her own heroism more tragic.

Having said that, I really agree about not liking this issue so much. I mean - okay, even if we do buy into the premise that Natasha is this brainwashed, subhuman, unfulfilled killer, so much of the stuff in this issue was over-the-top to the point of almost being ridiculous. I don't see Natasha as the type of person who ever said "Shall I kill the child?", and especially not someone to suggest that and get yelled at by her creepy abusive superior. And, killing Marina without so much as shedding a tear? Her childhood friend who mattered so much to her? Killing her cat?

I think there are more effective ways to show Natasha's bad deeds than that. They didn't even show whether or not it pained her to do these things; the only pages that implied or addressed her regret were the bookends. Like Muffin Crud said, it felt like it was for shock value with no real follow-up.

Not to mention, I still think the super-violent, brainwashed, childhood-less interpretation of her past doesn't really fit her. Her first appearances were as an evil spy, yes, but she acted more like a mustache twirling-supervillain rather than an emotionless killer. She was portrayed sympathetically from the get-go. She might not have stuck to the Avengers code of "no killing" when she first hung around them, but she still didn't really care for using guns up to a decade later. She was very emotional from the get-go; her origin showed her becoming who she was because of love and a sense of duty, not because she was brainwashed into being the perfect tool. I think pushing that to the point where you get an issue like this doesn't really understand the intense emotion inherent in the character. It doesn't understand her textured view on life that comes from being a soldier and a wanderer and an athlete and an artist and a polyglot. It makes her boring and narrow, and that's what frustrates me the most.

you've articulated my thoughts pretty much exactly. there's something very cheap and lazy about this finale in its handling of Natasha here, reducing her integrity in the process.

I've never seen her as someone practicing senseless killing, so beyond the fact that I am already adverse to animal deaths in general, it stung even more so to see her willing to and actively ending a life when she absolutely didn't need to

[Conway]

you've articulated my thoughts pretty much exactly. there's something very cheap and lazy about this finale in its handling of Natasha here, reducing her integrity in the process.

I've never seen her as someone practicing senseless killing, so beyond the fact that I am already adverse to animal deaths in general, it stung even more so to see her willing to and actively ending a life when she absolutely didn't need to

I can understand why people are against this. I think the cat was totally unnecessary but she was a child that was programmed to be an assassin from the very beginning of her life. I'm not sure what gave anyone the impression that she was anything but a cold blooded killer when she young.

[responsarbre]

Actually, Paul Cornell's origin series completely did away with that. If you give a close reading, she was never actually part of the spy program until her late twenties. Her childhood was mostly spent wandering Europe and/or fighting in World War II with Ivan and his soldier buddies. If you look closely at that military school she's in when she's young, she only attends between the years 1938-1940. (Not to mention, Cornell and Leon's interpretation of that school is way less brutal than Richard Morgan's little girl murder camp.) Natasha only gets pulled into the Red Room in 1956.

Homecoming by Richard Morgan is a mostly good read , but what it did to Natahsa's past was to completely overwrite it in the hopes of making her a grittier character without considering the broader implications. That's why I prefer her past as it was written before Morgan and by Cornell.

[jackolover]

As far as Natasha being a cold blooded killer, just remember what the 7 Winter Soldiers were like and transfer that to Natasha. We can't let emotional responses on our part distort what came out of the red room. Natasha was not nice and lovely Carol Danvers, who was brain washed. She was a war orphan with a propensity to self preservation. Natasha falling in love with Bucky as the Winter Soldier, when they were young, does nothing to reduce that mean streak.

Not that I like this interpretation of the Black Widow in this, because it disgusts me, but, I am realistic and know if someone is conditioned to be a trigger to be pulled, like Nat was by her handler, all she is going to do is blindly carry out the orders. Nobody disputes what snipers do, as being too ugly. Nat is just a close range sniper.

[jackolover]

I sort of understand why the fans aren't big on this story. I think the idea of showing both her beginning and her end worked well as a story point. It isn't the best way of showing everything but it did do a good job of showing why she feels so guilty and needs the redemption her jobs provided.

It did nothing to clear up the real question of if 616 Nat was one of the people Doom pulled when he brought Manhattan to Doomworld. All in all it wasn't what I would have hoped from a final issue.

Yeah, I wanted the survivor Nat to appear in Battleworld Ultimate End too. Something big is going to happen in UE with both teams ready to clash after Fury lost Banner to Tony Stark armor grabbing him and flying out of the building. That was an act of war the Thors distrinctly told them not to do and when they do it, there is hell to pay. Again, probably, because they remember a few of these rejigs in the past happening.

[Jinjonator]

Even accepting the whole thing of her being an emotionless assassin who follows orders unquestioningly (which I'm willing to accept), her shooting the cat was over-the-top and felt like cartoon villainy. Obviously she wasn't ordered to assassinate the cat as part of the mission. The cat wasn't going to go to the police and snitch on her. The cat posed no threat to her life or her freedom or the mission. It's a damn cat. Killing it served no function and she would know that. If she was a sadistic sociopath who took pleasure in causing suffering and pain, then and only then would that action make sense. Even within the framework of unfeeling assassin, it makes no sense.

[Darthfury78]

Even accepting the whole thing of her being an emotionless assassin who follows orders unquestioningly (which I'm willing to accept), her shooting the cat was over-the-top and felt like cartoon villainy. Obviously she wasn't ordered to assassinate the cat as part of the mission. The cat wasn't going to go to the police and snitch on her. The cat posed no threat to her life or her freedom or the mission. It's a damn cat. Killing it served no function and she would know that. If she was a sadistic sociopath who took pleasure in causing suffering and pain, then and only then would that action make sense. Even within the framework of unfeeling assassin, it makes no sense.

It's the writer wanting to go out with a BANG.

[Conway]

It's the writer wanting to go out with a BANG.

Yeah, killing the cat at the beginning of her career to saving a cat at the end. It was pretty heavy handed and pretty pointless. Still, I like the description someone made earlier of her being a "trigger waiting to be pulled". She was a tool of the Red Room, a tool who's main function was assassinations. However a computer only does what you tell it to and nobody told her to kill the cat it was unnecessary and out of character.

[teamhawkeyes]

Yeah, this one ended pretty bleak, but I didn't hate it. This entire run has been about Natasha atoning for the (many, brutal) sins of her past, and when you combine one of those with the ending of the entire universe, I thought the darkness of the ending made sense.

The cat thing was definitely a bit much, though. No idea what Edmonson was going for there other than to make past Natasha look like a sociopath, which I don't believe.

[Darthfury78]

Yeah, this one ended pretty bleak, but I didn't hate it. This entire run has been about Natasha atoning for the (many, brutal) sins of her past, and when you combine one of those with the ending of the entire universe, I thought the darkness of the ending made sense.

The cat thing was definitely a bit much, though. No idea what Edmonson was going for there other than to make past Natasha look like a sociopath, which I don't believe.

I think that Edmonson wanted his run on the Black Widow to continue beyond the initial 20 issue run. It feels like he had more stories to tell until the company wide Secret Wars ruined it.