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  1. #1426
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I prefer the Monsterverse to what Toho has recently done, which is to remove any semblance of personality from Godzilla and make a bunch of lifeless human characters. I don't get the love for Shin Godzilla

    Is SP a massive departure from the norm for Godzilla? Because I hear a lot of the events causing the daikaiju aren't really at all like what created them in previous films
    MonsterVerse can't decide on one personality for their Godzilla - is he heroic? An animal running on instincts? A vicious gorilla hating bastard? Depends entirely on which MV film you're watching because each director throws out the last film's characterization to make their own Godzilla. As for Shin, it's got a good story, an interesting style, a mature tone, something to say, and is clearly a passion project and a director's vision. GvK has...fights. Just fights. And in my opinion the worst story of any G film I've seen, and yes I'm including films like All Monsters Attack and vs SpaceGodzilla and vs Megalon and so forth in this estimation. That's not an attack on people who hate Shin or love GvK, that's just my opinion on the films themselves. I hate GvK, I regret watching it, and it turned me away from ever watching another Monsterverse film going forward. It's not something I'm interested in debating, I get people have this need to defend the films they like when someone doesn't like them, but there's just no point to it really, I can't be convinced that it wasn't the worst experience I've ever had watching a movie with Godzilla in it - for me, it was that experience. It was that bad. Movies have bored me in the past, but this was the first to ever leave me feeling genuine anger over what I watched.


    As for SP, kind of yes and kind of no. It's hard to explain without giving away spoilers - I'd recommend just watching it. It's not great, it's not the worst, from what I gather most people just kind of find it somewhere in the middle - I thought it was "kind of good" and others "kind of" bad, but no one seems to have particularly strong feelings over it, so you're not likely to hate it. Best case scenario you kind of enjoy it like I did despite some flaws (most glaring - a real lack of scenes with Godzilla) or you'll dislike it somewhat. Either way you're not risking much giving it a go.

  2. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    MonsterVerse can't decide on one personality for their Godzilla - is he heroic? An animal running on instincts? A vicious gorilla hating bastard? Depends entirely on which MV film you're watching because each director throws out the last film's characterization to make their own Godzilla. As for Shin, it's got a good story, an interesting style, a mature tone, something to say, and is clearly a passion project and a director's vision. GvK has...fights. Just fights. And in my opinion the worst story of any G film I've seen, and yes I'm including films like All Monsters Attack and vs SpaceGodzilla and vs Megalon and so forth in this estimation. That's not an attack on people who hate Shin or love GvK, that's just my opinion on the films themselves. I hate GvK, I regret watching it, and it turned me away from ever watching another Monsterverse film going forward. It's not something I'm interested in debating, I get people have this need to defend the films they like when someone doesn't like them, but there's just no point to it really, I can't be convinced that it wasn't the worst experience I've ever had watching a movie with Godzilla in it - for me, it was that experience. It was that bad. Movies have bored me in the past, but this was the first to ever leave me feeling genuine anger over what I watched.
    Personally, Godzilla's Revenge is the worst Godzilla movie, and the one I hate watching. I'd rank GvK above a lot of the lesser ones. I can't imagine getting genuinely angry about GvK of all movies. It didn't have a bunch of stock footage or annoying humans or badly designed monster suits or horrific acting and dubbing or recycled plots from previous films. That stuff would make me mad.

    While I do see your point about his personality changing, I think he's fairly consistent between 2014 and KoM.

    As for Shin, I thought it was plodding, with no personality whatsoever for either Godzilla or the humans. Proving some kind of point isn't worth making the humans just cardboard. The soundtrack and destruction scenes were great, but that's about it for me. Honestly, I'd like Toho to actually make Godzilla more of a character than just an obstacle. I don't need more movies or shows of him just going from A to B. If I wanted that, I'd watch Fury Road again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    As for SP, kind of yes and kind of no. It's hard to explain without giving away spoilers - I'd recommend just watching it. It's not great, it's not the worst, from what I gather most people just kind of find it somewhere in the middle - I thought it was "kind of good" and others "kind of" bad, but no one seems to have particularly strong feelings over it, so you're not likely to hate it. Best case scenario you kind of enjoy it like I did despite some flaws (most glaring - a real lack of scenes with Godzilla) or you'll dislike it somewhat. Either way you're not risking much giving it a go.
    I'll watch it eventually but I hope to enjoy it in some capacity.

  3. #1428
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Personally, Godzilla's Revenge is the worst Godzilla movie, and the one I hate watching. I'd rank GvK above a lot of the lesser ones. I can't imagine getting genuinely angry about GvK of all movies. It didn't have a bunch of stock footage or annoying humans or badly designed monster suits or horrific acting and dubbing or recycled plots from previous films. That stuff would make me mad.

    While I do see your point about his personality changing, I think he's fairly consistent between 2014 and KoM.

    As for Shin, I thought it was plodding, with no personality whatsoever for either Godzilla or the humans. Proving some kind of point isn't worth making the humans just cardboard. The soundtrack and destruction scenes were great, but that's about it for me. Honestly, I'd like Toho to actually make Godzilla more of a character than just an obstacle. I don't need more movies or shows of him just going from A to B. If I wanted that, I'd watch Fury Road again.
    I'd rank GvK well below Godzilla's Revenge, and I agree with all the criticisms you leveled at GR, which shows how much worse I think GvK is. I made like 8 or 9 points against it in some thread here. Frankly, I don't really have much more to say - I just really hate this movie. It was the absolute worst time I've ever had watching Godzilla. It just felt like the dumbest thing I've ever seen, which is saying a lot. I honestly think it'd be better if it was nothing but the fight scenes - editing out every single second a human was on screen, taking out every single moment of so called "plot" would VASTLY improve this "movie" - not because I only want to see fights, but because those scenes were that awful, dreadful, and just shitty. At least to me.

    I'll watch it eventually but I hope to enjoy it in some capacity.
    I think you will - there's some great moments and fun things in there.

  4. #1429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I'd rank GvK well below Godzilla's Revenge, and I agree with all the criticisms you leveled at GR, which shows how much worse I think GvK is. I made like 8 or 9 points against it in some thread here. Frankly, I don't really have much more to say - I just really hate this movie. It was the absolute worst time I've ever had watching Godzilla. It just felt like the dumbest thing I've ever seen, which is saying a lot. I honestly think it'd be better if it was nothing but the fight scenes - editing out every single second a human was on screen, taking out every single moment of so called "plot" would VASTLY improve this "movie" - not because I only want to see fights, but because those scenes were that awful, dreadful, and just shitty. At least to me.
    We'll agree to disagree. I thought GvK had plenty of problems but it still did things better than a lot of Godzilla movies, IMO. I don't get annoyed with it like a lot of Showa, or even some Heisei movies, or the anime trilogy. Seeing the same scene in stock footage from 3 movies ago presented as a new scene is what I'd consider the dumbest thing ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I think you will - there's some great moments and fun things in there.
    Good to know. I feel like Godzilla could thrive in animation, considering there are fewer limitations.

  5. #1430
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    We'll agree to disagree. I thought GvK had plenty of problems but it still did things better than a lot of Godzilla movies, IMO. I don't get annoyed with it like a lot of Showa, or even some Heisei movies, or the anime trilogy. Seeing the same scene in stock footage from 3 movies ago presented as a new scene is what I'd consider the dumbest thing ever.
    We will indeed have to agree to disagree. I thought a lot of other Godzilla movies had plenty of problems but still did better than GvK. I don't get annoyed with a lot of Showa, or even some Heisei movies, or the anime trilogy like I do GvK. Basically we're just polar opposites on this - I can forgive stock footage, but seeing people hop in impossible propulsion beam flying tank dealies to fly through some gravity wormhole to enter the center of the earth to get a gorilla an axe before a lizard blasts a hole through the earth's crust and mantle to the center of the earth just to challenge him to a fight while pausing his search for the robot lizard to do so even though that was the whole reason he even came to Hong Kong in the first place and literally could have taken like five steps to break the robot lizard he was originally after before it could power up just to pick a fight with the gorilla who was no danger to him at that time because literally half of the planet separated him from the monkey but he had to pick then to fight anyways again ignoring the whole reason he had traveled to Hong Kong to begin with - yeah, I'd consider that to be the dumbest thing ever. Like it just doesn't make sense, and the ancient rivalry or he felt Kong was a threat just can not cover that wide a plot hole - not even a hole, but a plot canyon. Godzilla, merely a few kaiju feet away from MechaG, who he felt was enough of a threat to track from Pensacola to Hong Kong, decided to blast a hole to the center of the earth and take the time to fight the monkey rather than wait five minutes when half the planet was separating them until after the closer threat could've been dismantled. And no one calls that out as dumb....

    The later Showa movies have their serious flaws, but they still have their own quirky charm to them too. But I just can't find the charm in GvK.
    (sorry for the rant, but heck does that whole plot drive me nuts, it's just too dumb imo...)

    Good to know. I feel like Godzilla could thrive in animation, considering there are fewer limitations.
    He could, he definitely could - but they've not cracked it yet. He could thrive in animation, but for now we just have mildly entertaining to settle with. It's worth a watch, I don't think you'll be disappointed at all, but I can't really give it any praises either. At the end of the day it's just alright. Which is still more than I can say for the anime trilogy.

  6. #1431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    We will indeed have to agree to disagree. I thought a lot of other Godzilla movies had plenty of problems but still did better than GvK. I don't get annoyed with a lot of Showa, or even some Heisei movies, or the anime trilogy like I do GvK. Basically we're just polar opposites on this - I can forgive stock footage, but seeing people hop in impossible propulsion beam flying tank dealies to fly through some gravity wormhole to enter the center of the earth to get a gorilla an axe before a lizard blasts a hole through the earth's crust and mantle to the center of the earth just to challenge him to a fight while pausing his search for the robot lizard to do so even though that was the whole reason he even came to Hong Kong in the first place and literally could have taken like five steps to break the robot lizard he was originally after before it could power up just to pick a fight with the gorilla who was no danger to him at that time because literally half of the planet separated him from the monkey but he had to pick then to fight anyways again ignoring the whole reason he had traveled to Hong Kong to begin with - yeah, I'd consider that to be the dumbest thing ever. Like it just doesn't make sense, and the ancient rivalry or he felt Kong was a threat just can not cover that wide a plot hole - not even a hole, but a plot canyon. Godzilla, merely a few kaiju feet away from MechaG, who he felt was enough of a threat to track from Pensacola to Hong Kong, decided to blast a hole to the center of the earth and take the time to fight the monkey rather than wait five minutes when half the planet was separating them until after the closer threat could've been dismantled. And no one calls that out as dumb....

    The later Showa movies have their serious flaws, but they still have their own quirky charm to them too. But I just can't find the charm in GvK.
    (sorry for the rant, but heck does that whole plot drive me nuts, it's just too dumb imo...)
    Ok. The only thing I thought was a stretch was that Godzilla's heat ray could go through the Earth. It's not that powerful.

    But I'd still take that over depressed-looking grey Barney, a.k.a. Minilla, or annoying kids, or a recycled battle from a previous movie featuring a monster not in the current one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    He could, he definitely could - but they've not cracked it yet. He could thrive in animation, but for now we just have mildly entertaining to settle with. It's worth a watch, I don't think you'll be disappointed at all, but I can't really give it any praises either. At the end of the day it's just alright. Which is still more than I can say for the anime trilogy.
    Anything is an improvement over the anime trilogy (except All Monsters Attack). But I'm not sure why animated Godzilla is so difficult. Why is he so slow? Why does he barely move or have any personality?

  7. #1432
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 08-04-2021 at 11:15 AM.
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  8. #1433
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Ok. The only thing I thought was a stretch was that Godzilla's heat ray could go through the Earth. It's not that powerful.

    But I'd still take that over depressed-looking grey Barney, a.k.a. Minilla, or annoying kids, or a recycled battle from a previous movie featuring a monster not in the current one.
    I also don't like Minilla (hate to say it because it sounds so awful, but he looks like he has down syndrome) and his donkey braying roar or laugh or whatever it was. But I'd still take it and the recycled footage over GvK. At least those things I can blame on being cheap, don't know what to blame GvK flaws on other than the director not giving any care to the process of storytelling.

    Anything is an improvement over the anime trilogy (except All Monsters Attack). But I'm not sure why animated Godzilla is so difficult. Why is he so slow? Why does he barely move or have any personality?
    That's my exact feeling over GvK - anything, to me, is an improvement over it, including the anime trilogy and All Monsters Attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    That's not my wish. I said that GvK would've been improved without the human characters solely because that thing they had the balls to call a "plot" was so dreadful that removing it entirely could only be an improvement. My actual, real wish is for someone who gives enough of a damn to care even just a little tiny bit over things like scripts and plots and writing and making any kind of sense would be put in charge - sadly, I doubt you've got a link for news on anything like that...

  9. #1434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I also don't like Minilla (hate to say it because it sounds so awful, but he looks like he has down syndrome) and his donkey braying roar or laugh or whatever it was. But I'd still take it and the recycled footage over GvK. At least those things I can blame on being cheap, don't know what to blame GvK flaws on other than the director not giving any care to the process of storytelling.
    I don't think anyone likes Minilla, at least not that I've seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    That's my exact feeling over GvK - anything, to me, is an improvement over it, including the anime trilogy and All Monsters Attack.
    Ok. I still can't see what you're saying. Using a bunch of stock footage is more artistically bankrupt to me than a generic Hollywood plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    That's not my wish. I said that GvK would've been improved without the human characters solely because that thing they had the balls to call a "plot" was so dreadful that removing it entirely could only be an improvement. My actual, real wish is for someone who gives enough of a damn to care even just a little tiny bit over things like scripts and plots and writing and making any kind of sense would be put in charge - sadly, I doubt you've got a link for news on anything like that...

  10. #1435
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    I am a big Godzilla fan, GvK was meh for me but I am glad it did good at the box office. I saw it once and can't tell you when I will watch it again. However I really loved the recent KotM, I paid to see it twice, bought the blu ray and the soundtrack as quickly as possible. For me it was a love letter to Godzilla fans at least it was to me. True none of the humans were essential but besides Raymond Burr how many ever are? What are you guy's opinion on KotM as far as in relation to other more modern Godzilla flicks.

  11. #1436
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    I am a big Godzilla fan, GvK was meh for me but I am glad it did good at the box office. I saw it once and can't tell you when I will watch it again. However I really loved the recent KotM, I paid to see it twice, bought the blu ray and the soundtrack as quickly as possible. For me it was a love letter to Godzilla fans at least it was to me. True none of the humans were essential but besides Raymond Burr how many ever are? What are you guy's opinion on KotM as far as in relation to other more modern Godzilla flicks.
    I liked KotM. I liked seeing the references to previous Godzilla movies, like burning Godzilla. The effects were pretty good, but the fights, while good, were too dark. Serizawa was the only interesting human character, and he died. Tbh, I feel this series needs more ethnically Japanese characters. It's a Japanese franchise, after all, and they don't get enough opportunities in Hollywood.

    And this is more of a personal thing, but we didn't get to see Rodan team up with Godzilla. He got beat up too much, and Mothra died again, which I didn't like. Although I liked her aerial web attack.

    Tbh, the humans in these movies have never really been interesting in most of these movies. I'd say the original Godzilla, Great Monster War, maybe Frankenstein vs. Baragon, and MechaGodzilla's Counterattack, just off the top of my head, have good human characters. I do ironically enjoy some of them, like the Xilien Commander in both GMW and G:FW (for opposite reasons), Gordon from G:FW, Doctor Who from King Kong's Counterattack, and M-11 from GvKG.

  12. #1437
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    Serizawa and Jia were the only recent human characters I really liked well I guess I liked Madison a little too. I agree on the too dark thing when you are a Kaiju no need to sneak up in the middle of the night you can attack in broad daylight. I would rather be able to follow the action instead of those few shots when the radioactive fire lights up the night. If I were a Rodan or Mothra fan I would feel like they got punked and jobbed out but I guess that happens when you do a guest appearance on someone else's monster flick. If there were a Mothra flick I am sure she would be putting G to sleep in spun silk, poor Rodan is just in the job squad until he gets his own flick.

  13. #1438
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    That's not my wish. I said that GvK would've been improved without the human characters solely because that thing they had the balls to call a "plot" was so dreadful that removing it entirely could only be an improvement. My actual, real wish is for someone who gives enough of a damn to care even just a little tiny bit over things like scripts and plots and writing and making any kind of sense would be put in charge - sadly, I doubt you've got a link for news on anything like that...
    I was just teasing you!

    I found it funny that this news came out when you and Mik were talking about GvK.

    That is all.

    The only MonsterVerse news I got for you is that Josh Grode is expected to make an announcement on future films in Q4. He already said more is coming and Toho released some more IP to them to borrow. The only rumors I've seen are a Hollow Earth Kong that sounded like Son of Kong meets King Kong Escapes and Godzilla 3. Legendary also has MechaGodzilla for at least one more appearance and they have an "unused Toho IP" that was rumored to be Manda, JJ, or Moguera. The only other thing Grode said was people really responded to the big famous monster vs. monster fights, so he would like to have more of that in future films. Sounds like he wants to go down the Heisei era route in terms of continuity and fights. He also talked about Pacific Rim and trying to get a US Ultraman off the ground for Godzilla to fight.

    IMHO, if you want Ultraman to fight the Big G, just use Jet Jaguar. With enough fussing, you could get him to be like Ultraman.
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 08-04-2021 at 11:37 AM.
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  14. #1439
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    Serizawa and Jia were the only recent human characters I really liked well I guess I liked Madison a little too. I agree on the too dark thing when you are a Kaiju no need to sneak up in the middle of the night you can attack in broad daylight. I would rather be able to follow the action instead of those few shots when the radioactive fire lights up the night. If I were a Rodan or Mothra fan I would feel like they got punked and jobbed out but I guess that happens when you do a guest appearance on someone else's monster flick. If there were a Mothra flick I am sure she would be putting G to sleep in spun silk, poor Rodan is just in the job squad until he gets his own flick.
    Even if they're guest stars, they could get a better showing. When they first teamed up against King Ghidorah, all three got a good amount of attention. Since then, they've become more like side characters, although GvMG'93 was probably the best in terms of Rodan's characterization since then.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    I was just teasing you!

    I found it funny that this news came out when you and Mik were talking about GvK.

    That is all.

    The only MonsterVerse news I got for you is that Josh Grode is expected to make an announcement on future films in Q4. He already said more is coming and Toho released some more IP to them to borrow. The only rumors I've seen are a Hollow Earth Kong that sounded like Son of Kong meets King Kong Escapes and Godzilla 3. Legendary also has MechaGodzilla for at least one more appearance and they have an "unused Toho IP" that was rumored to be Manda, JJ, or Moguera. The only other thing Grode said was people really responded to the big famous monster vs. monster fights, so he would like to have more of that in future films. Sounds like he wants to go down the Heisei era route in terms of continuity and fights. He also talked about Pacific Rim and trying to get a US Ultraman off the ground for Godzilla to fight.

    IMHO, if you want Ultraman to fight the Big G, just use Jet Jaguar. With enough fussing, you could get him to be like Ultraman.
    Manda? really?

  15. #1440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Manda? really?
    Manda was used a lot in the viral marketing for GvK.

    I was expecting him to get ganked by Mecha G or squashed by Godzilla or something right out the gate.

    He never showed up. Not sure if that counted as "use" or not in terms of the rights. Time will tell.
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