What Does It Take For Straight Readers To Accept That A Character Is Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual?

[Kieran_Frost]

If we pulled the controversial part of this question and just asked what would it take for a reader to accept an unexpected change or revelation of a character and should this change be permanent . I think we might get honest discussion. I find many of these outings to be clumsy. I find a lot of storytelling to be clumsy when creative decides to make super hero books represent and reflect the real world. Its an admirable and necessary goal though.

Do you have much experience with coming out, though? Many gay readers applauded how Bendis outed Bobby, saying it rang so true for how they came out (he also got similar praise for outing Benjamin and Victoria, though both in very different ways). Yet some non-LGBT posters keep saying it wasn't a well written or believable coming out. So who is right? Ultimately I favour giving life experience the benefit of the doubt, but I am obviously bias so can't objectively decide.

[The Fury]

Good story telling.

Seems rare, though.

[HUTHAIFA]

[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1396417]Do you have much experience with coming out, though? Many gay readers applauded how Bendis outed Bobby, saying it rang so true for how they came out (he also got similar praise for outing Benjamin and Victoria, though both in very different ways). Yet some non-LGBT posters keep saying it wasn't a well written or believable coming out. So who is right? Ultimately I favour giving life experience the benefit of the doubt, but I am obviously bias so can't objectively decide. QUOTE

In a medium where we literally show the thoughts of characters I find secret revelations like this hard to swallow. I will put up the example of M telling everyone she is Muslim. This character has shown absolutely no traces of being Muslim. It didn't read true at all for me. I have been Muslim all of my life and known all kinds. That being said, there is a great story to be written about her coming to terms with her faith. That being said my point was any change to a character that comes out of the blue with plans on being permanent would not be looked upon kindly or quickly accepted.

[VolcanikTiger86]

To me personally I would say they have to come out and say it, not outed by another character, I'm a simple guy I'm not going to argue if you say you're gay then fine but I would hope that it would make sense for example Iceman has had a problem with deep meaningful relationships as far as I know and most could have been friendships so I could buy that he was bi or gay but if you were to tell me that Peter Parker was gay I wouldn't believe it.

[Fokken]

Ha ha ha I'm just now noticing the telepath option in the poll. ha ha.

[DDD]

It doesn't have to be "years" of innuendo, but make it obvious. Having someone declare they changed in one issue of a comic is not the same as someone you know coming out because the readers spend a lot of time with the characters, you can read their thoughts and everything. So it comes across as hack writing when anything is out of the blue.

[HUTHAIFA]

To me personally I would say they have to come out and say it, not outed by another character, I'm a simple guy I'm not going to argue if you say you're gay then fine but I would hope that it would make sense for example Iceman has had a problem with deep meaningful relationships as far as I know and most could have been friendships so I could buy that he was bi or gay but if you were to tell me that Peter Parker was gay I wouldn't believe it.

Having trouble with deep meaningful relationships is a pretty common trait in most comicbook characters, Creative seem to like to keep the love interest as a revolving door.

[Nomads1]

If they did the Original Handbook of the Marvel Universe nowadays, they'd have to include a section for sexual orientation for each character.

Peace

[Supernature]

There's people arguing that a character having intercourse with a person of the same sex isn't enough proof to declare them LGBT. I mean...

As far as I'm concerned, the experiences the characters have as LGBT matter more than on panel sexual behaviour. There are things that might define a person who is in the LGBT community. Do they purposefully avoid certain topics / avoid mentionning things from their personal life by fear of revealing themselves / of repercussions? Have they felt the need to conform to certain behavioral gender norms to blend in? Or have they decided to disregard said norms even if it meant becoming an outcast?

Yes having more LGBT characters is important but I want them to actually be relatable to LGBT people. Which is my problem with the whole "formerly straight character becomes gay". Their stories / experiences don't reflect their belonging to the LGBT community. It can be done right, I guess, but it needs to happen more gradually.

There's also other cases where I have no problem buying it: like Psylocke or Hercules being bi for instance. It just kind of made sense. Claremont hinted that most of his women had pretty fluid sexualities and Hercules being a Greek God and all.

[The Fury]

There's people arguing that a character having intercourse with a person of the same sex isn't enough proof to declare them LGBT. I mean...

I said in the Storm is Bi thread, I'll say it here. There is enough porn to show that this isn't the case.

You are dead on with the gradually thing. It needs to be experienced, so to speak. Show us their turmoil and freedoms in coming to terms with themselves and showing other characters who they are. Don't just blurt it out and expect readers to accept it. We can after all see these characters when they are alone, even if thought bubbles are no longer a writing style used that much.

I actually don't like the Psylocke one, because of when and who it was with. Plus modern Psylocke is a bit messed up. She's lost her character.

[Triniking1234]

The story would mostly sell it for me. Also is the thread referring to characters (from the olden days) who were introduced as being hetero then being revealed as LGBT later? Yeah, that pill is gonna be tough to swallow. Readers won't really complain about new characters (Karolina, Wiccan, etc.) being introduced as LGBT.

OFF-TOPIC: Someone mentioned Psylocke as Bi but she basically slept with a gender-bent version of her then-current lover so it felt more fan-servicey than coming out to me.

[DDD]

It's like, this is only for established characters, if they make a meat eater a hardcore vegetarian the next issue or vice versa. It's jarring. Like when some idiot writers in B&V didn't know Ronnie was the bad cook and Betty was the homemaker.

[Iron Maiden]

And that goes for how I feel in real life so I guess I choose "none of the above".

I don't go around asking about anyone's sexual preferences. Of course one assumes what their preferences are if they are married or in a relationship. But we can't always make assumptions about that. It's none of my business to ask or care about it. A character's sexuality is of little interest to me unless it's an important part of the story.

[Castiel]

I typically don't like established characters who have been recognized as straight suddenly being "outed" I have no problem with homosexuality but if you do it with a character whose been straight has had sex with women on panel. At least do it in a way that doesn't feel like the writer saying "He/She's gay now." Like in the Following Season 1 you had Paul, Jacob and Emma. It was clear something happened between the two guy's and it caused tension in the group which ultimately caused a threesome to happen the weirdest threesome ever. Which lead to Paul and Jacob having an argument with Jacob being like "I can't be what you want me to be Paul. I'm not gay." and Paul was like "Why do you have to put a label on everything?"

At least create new gay characters don't try to force established character into something new just to be "hip" and "cool" and I feel that's why shows and books make gay characters to be "hip" and "cool".

[bubbalee33]

I'd like to think that it shouldnt matter, and if the character/writter confirms it in context, so be it. However there are still too many ignorant closed minded people out there who will always make an issue out of it.