A political question in regards to race outrage

[G.M.K.M]

Hello, my name is G.M.K.M and this is for research purposes. Is there an over flow of diatribe and confusion every time a movie adaption is created and flips or even contemplates changing the race of an established character, and is it a big deal, to you as comic fans?

Also, most of the "outrage" if I am not mistaken, seems to be coming from white people? <--- (I heard this on a Youtube video)

This makes me wonder how comic fans would react to an adaptation, if the race was flipped for a character such . . . as Blade, or Al Simmons. And they were made white.


I'm not a huge comic book reader and the aforementioned of black characters aren't the greatest example. Though, if Hollywood were to capitalize on a African character and make him white . . . how would YOU react to that? Black, White, Male, Female . . . what is your overall feeling?

[Carabas]

EDIT: Noticed I placed this in the wrong section. If possible, move.

Hello, my name is G.M.K.M

You should sue your parents.

and this is for research purposes.

What kind of research?

Is there an over flow of diatribe and confusion every time a movie adaption is created and flips or even contemplates changing the race of an established character, and is it a big deal, to you as comic fans?

It does not generally matter one bit to me.

Also, most of the "outrage" if I am not mistaken, seems to be coming from white people?

Stands to reason.
The people outraged over this would be comicbook fans and comicbook fans are overwhelmingly white.
Comicbook fans also flip their top if the costume deviates too much, the hair colour doesn't match the book version, the character migh be speaking with a British accent etcetera.

This makes me wonder how comic fans would react to an adaptation, if the race was flipped for a character such . . . as Blade, or Al Simmons. And they were made white.

They'd go almost as nuclear as when Men Of Steel didn't have a Superman costume with the underpants on the outside. Or that time they trid to have Wonder Woman wear pants in the comics.
Comicbook fans are an easily prickled lot.

I'm not a huge comic book reader and the aforementioned of black characters aren't the greatest example. Though, if Hollywood were to capitalize on a African character and make him white . . . how would YOU react to that? Black, White, Male, Female . . . what is your overall feeling?

My personal feeling: well, that would decrease diversity in a genre that already is not very diverse at all, so that would be worse than casting Will Smith as Peter Parker.

[Sharkerbob]

Hello, my name is G.M.K.M and this is for research purposes. Is there an over flow of diatribe and confusion every time a movie adaption is created and flips or even contemplates changing the race of an established character, and is it a big deal, to you as comic fans?

People do not like change. This is not about racism. This is about screwing with people's sense of familiarity, and the general comfort that brings. Fans "grow up" with something a certain way, a thing that has stayed consistent and reliable for sometime, and then it suddenly gets altered for no immediately obvious or adequate reason, and people are going to be opinionated.

Every time Doctor Who switches to a new incarnation, every time Star Trek spins off a new series, every time DC reboots it's whole universe, every time the Batman or James Bond films switch actors, every time a Soap Opera switches actors, a vocal contingent of the fan base are going to yell and stamp there feet, and a large number of less vocal fans are going to make a grump face.

It's just a reaction to change, plain and simple. Focusing on the racism element only serves to hype up controversy clicks.

Also, most of the "outrage" if I am not mistaken, seems to be coming from white people? <--- (I heard this on a Youtube video)

Seems like nerds are traditionally viewed as white, so white people are the ones everyone points to, and probably the ones everyone notices, even if the sheer numbers didn't add up, though there probably are more out and proud white nerds in America.

This makes me wonder how comic fans would react to an adaptation, if the race was flipped for a character such . . . as Blade, or Al Simmons. And they were made white.

Probably the same. Main reason this hasn't happened is that yes, the majority of comic book superhero characters are white, so there are a lot more opportunities for race-switching from white to something else than vice versa. Also in the current culture climate, social controversy journalists and internet activists would leap on a "minority"-to-white change like starving vampires on a blood bank if that happened in the comics; no comic in their right mind is going to pull that nowadays, when Diversity is the primary goal.

Hollywood's been white-washing movies forever, so people are more used to it, but even they are getting hammered in social media and race-relation circles over it more and more loudly these days. Not the Hollywood cares, mind. They've got too much money to think about anything but statistics and the bottom line.

I'm not a huge comic book reader and the aforementioned of black characters aren't the greatest example. Though, if Hollywood were to capitalize on a African character and make him white . . . how would YOU react to that? Black, White, Male, Female . . . what is your overall feeling?

I wouldn't care, personally, as in, I wouldn't be offended on behalf of all black people or whatever. In fact, if anything, I'd be amused by all the internet backlash. But frankly, if it's a good movie, it's a good movie. Michael Clark Duncan made a great Kingpin in the Daredevil movie. I suppose a white Blade would be perfectly fine if they got a decent actor and actually told a compelling story with the movie. Frankly, I don't think being black is a particularly important aspect of Blade's character; it's not like the character is heavily steeped in African Tribal Myths or something where the skin color is, by way of genealogical circumstance, directly tied to the history and mythos of the character.

Now, on the flip side, take the Black Panther, where it is a significant aspect of his character concept that he's an African king, from a nation where, as far as I can tell, all the native citizens are black. Making him a white guy, while doable, wouldn't make a whole lot of sense in context, and would probably be seen by some as calling back to the whole "white savior" motif that can be rather blatantly racist in some stories. Then you could point to that and say, "Oh, of course, it's not until Wakanda gets a White King that anything can actually get done to save the day." Unintended or not, I can see that being insulting for some.

It's still not nearly the big deal social media critics want to say it is, since it's just a comic book movie, but it's understandable as a big aggravation.

Thing is, for a lot of comic book characters, however, a lot of their concepts are all but independent of their race. Nothing about Spider-Man, for example, is entwined with him being a white male from America. Super-smart teen get bits by a spider and has to navigate the social obstacles of his culture while also fighting super villains. You could literally do that anywhere in the world, in any culture. And in fact, re-imaginings of Spider-Man as different people from different eras, countries, races, genders, even species, have been done many times over.

This is one thing where I think people who cry foul over race-switching of characters miss that particular aspect of superhero mythology. The vast majority of the core concept can be transferred to nearly any type of person. Rarely is a concept so completely entrenched in a history and/or genealogy that would only make sense to give to one race or gender.

[ed2962]

Some people freak out because they simply don't like change. If Peter Parker was wearing blue socks and then switches to black socks, some fans are going to be upset.

Some people freak out because they think liberals/feminists/tumblr/PC tyrants have taken over and are forcing whatever down their throats.

Having said that, minority to white race swaps already do happen in adaptations. And it seems like it's more likely to happen in stories based on true events.

[Darrell D.]

Some characters ARE tied to their race..Black Panther is one example, Luke Cage would be another. Blade from the early Tomb of Dracula comics was more of a militant type...a white writer injecting some half-assed social relevance and doing it badly, as usual for the time. He could be race swapped, but, damn. I can't think of Blade without Wesley Snipes being a total bad-ass in the movies.
Peter Parker, on the other hand, is an every man. Changing his race wouldn't make a difference or change the core concept.
It comes down to a case by case basis, I think.

[G.M.K.M]

I'm no comic aficionado, as I said before, so I don't know how rounded this question will sound, but what if we took a character, such as Batman, and changed the ethnicity to Chinese, maybe even Hispanic. Would that be appropriate? What about Wolverine, Bruce Banter or even Superman? Imagine the Hulk being black, imagine Superman with deep African roots. Are these characters under the same category as Spider man, are they everyday people, could we change them? And, if we did chang any of their ethnicities, would it upset any of you?

If you really want to sink your teeth into it we could bring up villains. An Asian Magneto, a black Joker . . . are these just horrible ideas?

[Tami]

The responses given so far have, pretty much, done a very good job in answering these questions. And the answers are the same and equally valid regardless of the ethnicity in question.

Everything is a case-by-case situation, and every reader/viewer will have their own personal views on the subject. In the end, it all boils down to how well the Comic Book was written or how well the Movie was made.

[G.M.K.M]

Everything is a case-by-case situation, and every reader/viewer will have their own personal views on the subject. In the end, it all boils down to how well the Comic Book was written or how well the Movie was made.

I'm considering that what you mean to say is that a black Superman or perhaps a black Wolverine, is entirely acceptable depending on how well the movie is, and depending on the case . . . or it isn't, if the movie is essentially bad, regardless of color or ethnicity and again, dependent on the case. But solely, in either situation this all rides on personal views, or have I made a misinterpretation?

[PwrdOn]

Hollywood casts white actors in minority roles all of the time, just look at the Last Airbender or Exodus, and while there is some backlash against the practice, it's nowhere near the kind of complaining you hear when it happens the other way. You can somewhat justify it by noting that nearly all of the popular and bankable movie stars are white, but that doesn't mean there's no racism involved, it just pushes the blame from the studios to the audiences.

[Bor]

I'm considering that what you mean to say is that a black Superman or perhaps a black Wolverine, is entirely acceptable depending on how well the movie is, and depending on the case . . . or it isn't, if the movie is essentially bad, regardless of color or ethnicity and again, dependent on the case. But solely, in either situation this all rides on personal views, or have I made a misinterpretation?

As said very much a case by case thing and person to person thing. I would dislike the magneto thing bcause that would change a lot about his jewish background. On the other hand someone like captain america (the original) being turned black I would find strange to since I just cant imagine the American government putting a black man as the symbol of the country during WW2. Sam wilson (The falcon) who is the current Captain I have no problems with since it is a different time now and makes perfect sense.

[Shawn Hopkins]

The minority to white race swap scenario being presented as a hypothetical here has happened, with the ones I can think of off the top of my head being making Jubilee white in the Generation X TV series, Bane in Dark Knight Rises, Terry Fitzgerald in Spawn (to keep it from becoming a "black" movie), Fox in Wanted, Maria Hill in the Avengers, Brick on Arrow, and casting Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One in the upcoming Doctor Strange. And no, there was not the level of vitriol for those that we saw with the black Johnny Storm, even accounting for the fact that those are more minor characters.

Racism is indeed a factor, and most of the nerd rage was caused by racism. To be charitable it was often unconscious or nearly unconscious racism, rationalized by the person holding those feelings as simply a resistance to change. The telling thing is that they never examine why this change upsets them more, and seems so much more significant, than any of the myriad other changes the adaptations always make to the comics material.

[Darrell D.]

As said very much a case by case thing and person to person thing. I would dislike the magneto thing bcause that would change a lot about his jewish background. On the other hand someone like captain america (the original) being turned black I would find strange to since I just cant imagine the American government putting a black man as the symbol of the country during WW2. Sam wilson (The falcon) who is the current Captain I have no problems with since it is a different time now and makes perfect sense.

You should track down "Truth: Red, White and Black" by Robert Morales and the always awesome Kyle Baker. A lot of what you are pondering about a Black Captain America during WW2 is addressed in that fine book.

[dancj]

I have no problem with white characters being turned into minorities if there's no reason not to. In fact to a degree I consider it a good thing to do. Minorities are still under-represented so it helps to redress the balance a bit.

So Kingpin and Johnny Storm were fine. Turning a Norse god black was odd, but no big deal.

Adaptations from other countries being adapted to reflect the racial mix in the new country is also fine - So I have no problem with most of the cast of the possible Akira film being white as it's transplanted to America.

I do think adapting the other direction is questionable unless there's a very good reason to do it. With minorities being under-represented we shouldn't be making it worse.

[Bor]

You should track down "Truth: Red, White and Black" by Robert Morales and the always awesome Kyle Baker. A lot of what you are pondering about a Black Captain America during WW2 is addressed in that fine book.

Yeah I already read that and it pretty much confirmed my belives. It is as you say a fine book.

[Carabas]

Maria Hill in the Avengers

Wait, what? Didn't know about that one. Comicbook Maria Hill being a minority is certainly a well kept secret.