Ultimate End #4 - Discussion and Spoilers

[Kurolegacy]

gee, surprising

Really raises the question of how Bendis continues to get so many books when his quality has hit rock bottom these days. He's almost the new Loeb at this point.

[wyokid]

Really raises the question of how Bendis continues to get so many books when his quality has hit rock bottom these days. He's almost the new Loeb at this point.

Someone didn't read Nova and isn't looking forward to the return of Loeb/Sale.

[AJpyro]

Someone didn't read Nova and isn't looking forward to the return of Loeb/Sale.

The only bad things from Loeb that I know are Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum. Pretty sure that was what Kuro meant.

[LordRyus]

Called it, Bombshell was in no danger. It was just a buy the next issue stunt since she's one of the few characters left that most people love. Hoping she'll be a supporting character in ANAD Spider-Man along with the other Ultimates Cloak and Dagger, Ganke, and Jessica Drew.

As to this issue though, it was pure garbage.

[Wolverine12]

He died years back remember? I'm his brother.

I remember WYODUDE!

I have not had a chance to get to my LCBS for this yet but it sounds like more of the same. Is it for sure Old Man Logan in the issue? The one thing that could save this for me no matter how bad the story/writing is would be if I got my 6 year long wish to see Ultimate Logan back again (not in flashback form). Actually on second thought don't answer me about if it's OML or Ult Logan, I want to find out on Friday.

[Kurolegacy]

You know, while I do like the comics Sam, I can't help but find it kinda messed up that a for a character who was basically created in honor of his son, that in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon that Sam is such an asshat the majority of the time with that being his defining characteristic.

[Anubhavkumarc]

You know, while I do like the comics Sam, I can't help but find it kinda messed up that a for a character who was basically created in honor of his son, that in the Ultimate Spuder-Man cartoon that Sam is such an asshat the majority of the time with that being his defining characteristic.

And Loeb works on the animation division for a long time, so it's safe to say he approved it.

[magnuskn]

You know, while I do like the comics Sam, I can't help but find it kinda messed up that a for a character who was basically created in honor of his son, that in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon that Sam is such an asshat the majority of the time with that being his defining characteristic.

I've not seen that cartoon, but I find he is pretty much an asshat in the comic version, too.

[Master of Sound]

Now, is that Ult Punisher, or 616?

[klefmung]

It looks like Ultimate Punisher kinda hopped off the deep end here, but he always seemed a little closer to doing that than 616 Punisher. Now, I think that this issue was pretty decent. Slow, but decent. I've been back on forth between optimism and pessimism with UE, trying to envision things that could happen to make it make sense, and I think I've found myself standing about 50-50 here.

For people complaining about the use of the word "dimension" in a world with no multiverse, consider this: Doom rewrote history to fit the narrative that there has only ever been one world. Now, he knows that there was a multiverse that got combined into one planet, with each domain representing a different universe. This means, that in Doom's revisionist history and language, one of two things would happen. No one remembers the word "dimension," or the meaning of the word gets changed in doom's history to be synonymous with "domain." This is supported by the fact that other tie ins use the two interchangeably. So this leaves the implication that it used to be two domains bordering each other, then there was a portal that teleported from one to another, collapsing, leading to a chaotic combined domain.

Two Wolverines problem solved! Yay, OML shows up! Makes sense, because in his book, he has been domain hopping already. This must just take place later.

It is extremely chaotic, but I think it makes a decent illustration of the chaos that would and should ensue in this situation.

A problem still raised is how Ultimate Cap came back into the fold. I guess he survived (which it looked like he might have), and Doom, of course, with all his Beyonder (or whatever) power, must have known this when he was assembling Battleworld, and just kinda thrown him back into the thick.

Another continuity glitch I've noticed is that of 616 Peter. I figure its one of two things. Doom made replicas of some people, and that Peter is just one of them. (Saved what we could, built what we couldn't, or whatever the exact quote was) Or he screwed up when he was messing with Ultimate Peter's head and tossed him on the wrong side of the fence. Seems unlikely, but it would mean hes been there the whole time.

Also, he very much DID NOT kill off Ultimate Bombshell or Cloak and Dagger like it looked like he might. *pleasepleaseplease put them somewhere in the combined universe*

If I think of any more offhand observations, I'll post them. I haven't re-read a single issue of UE, which I might over the weekend.

[Exciter]

Remember that Jeph Loeb had Tony Stark create the Ultimates because Sam Loeb died of cancer, but Jonathan Hickman retconned that back to Nick Fury creating the Ultimates.

Bless Hickman for his valiant effort at saving the UU after Loeb's utter ruination of it.

[Anubhavkumarc]

Another continuity glitch I've noticed is that of 616 Peter. I figure its one of two things. Doom made replicas of some people, and that Peter is just one of them. (Saved what we could, built what we couldn't, or whatever the exact quote was) Or he screwed up when he was messing with Ultimate Peter's head and tossed him on the wrong side of the fence. Seems unlikely, but it would mean hes been there the whole time.

Ultimate Peter is quite a bit shorter than 616, so I think this is more of a recreation than Ultimate Peter's memories being DOOMED.

[souzarc]

Can someone explain why Old Man logan was on ultimate side??? o.O

[jackolover]

I think the whole danger in the Domain has always been what Doom will do when total chaos breaks out like is issue #4. We don't have to look at this Ultimate arc as a swan song of the 1610, because it's something more unstable as it's located on Battleworld. We are given the answer of Doom after Valerias question of Doom interceding - let the Domain destroy itself with this war between the 616 and 1610. I'm not sure we are supposed to consider the two teams in Manhattan as the real 616 and 1610. I think we are just supposed to see it as versions of them put into this room, much like the Illuminati clones on the Skrull Planet before Secret Invasion, who realised they weren't anything more than just duplicates. Bendis wrote that story too, and it seems to be moving in the same direction. The Tonys have worked out that time doesn't make sense, and, that the Domain has been changed on several occasions, so Doom already knows how this is going to go, because he's done this before, when the same thing happened in the past. Punisher popping off various super heroes will be interesting when Doom rejigs this Domain back to its original conditions again, though, to see if Doom can restore the dead.

But, as Val has pointed out, Doom won't be able to rejig this Domain back as easily as he might, if Raftees are present when he wants to rejig. He might come in there, start his process, and when he gets to Miles Morales, the spell backfires because the spell only works on Doom constructs? Or, we learn all the teams are the real deal at that point, as Miles informs everyone that their respective Universes have been wiped out and everyone there is just Dooms play things. If this happens in enough Domains, that rejigging is not going to work because Raftees are breaking Dooms amnesia spell, it will be the spiralling moment that ends Battleworld. Doom may get too distracted to hold Battleworld together if he has to fight on multiple fronts. This could be the catalyst. Certainly, UE #4 has to be placed after Secret Wars #4, now, to align with why Miles is now present, or, Miles was sent back to the past?

Im not putting too much credence in 1610 Punishers assertion that he should have killed super heroes right from the start because they caused all this crazy of two teams of duplicates. Maybe Punisher is right. We'll see.

[jackolover]

This might be confusing but I think I got it.. While they were stalling fury, they went to somewhere out of Fury's radar (not Doom's). Ultimate Stark thinks of informing Doom (he informs Valeria later) 616 Stark thinks this might destroy the entire domain but Ultimate Stark thinks this gives them a small chance of separating the domains. Seeing Old Man Logan shows that it was only recently they got merged into one. Doom wants them to kill themselves cuz he doesn't care (also probably because Reed Richards just escaped him and he killed his only friend). At the end rafter Miles shows up to disrupt Doom's plan of Dooming 616/1610.

Do you think the Wolverine that shows up here is the one from Old Man Logan and not the Ultimate Wolvy?