In Your Face Jam: Why Bisexual Hercules Matters To <i>Me</i>

[CBR News]

Following the recent discussion regarding Hercules' sexual orientation, Brett White discusses how this particular development affected him.


Full article here.

[capt usa]

I liked the article, but am I the only straight guy who found the rampant use of the word queer in the article unsettling? I just have never been comfortable with that word, it has it's own meaning completely separate from gay and was altered to mean gay in a slur way, but I still think of the word queer to mean strange or unusual (see Les Nessman and WKRP in Cincinatti to know what I mean) and not about sexual orientation.

[kevinism]

Thank you!!!!!

[MaxMatrix]

Isn't Angela a lesbian or at least bisexual? I assume Wiccan and Hulkling don't count since it's a teambook.

[ed2962]

I liked the article, but am I the only straight guy who found the rampant use of the word queer in the article unsettling? I just have never been comfortable with that word, it has it's own meaning completely separate from gay and was altered to mean gay in a slur way, but I still think of the word queer to mean strange or unusual (see Les Nessman and WKRP in Cincinatti to know what I mean) and not about sexual orientation.

Well, there was a popular movement back in the 90's to take the word "queer" back by LGBT activists. Certain organizations proudly named themselves Queer Nation, you can take courses in Queer Cinema etc. It's not automatically an insult depending on how it's being used.

Heck, "gay" actually means happy, but modern folks rarely use it that way. It's just one of those ways how cultural meaning sometimes shift.

Kinda of similar, a lot of people don't realize that back in the 50's calling and african-american "black" was considered a mild slur and the polite term was negro. After the civil rights and black power movements, some people began to embrace the term.

[kevinism]

Well, there was a popular movement back in the 90's to take the word "queer" back by LGBT activists. Certain organizations proudly named themselves Queer Nation, you can take courses in Queer Cinema etc. It's not automatically an insult depending on how it's being used.

Heck, "gay" actually means happy, but modern folks rarely use it that way. It's just one of those ways how cultural meaning sometimes shift.

Kinda of similar, a lot of people don't realize that back in the 50's calling and african-american "black" was considered a mild slur and the polite term was negro. After the civil rights and black power movements, some people began to embrace the term.

In college I was in a group called Generation Queer. I don't think I ever knew a time that it was derogatory.

[outherelistening]

Capt USA: The term "queer" was more or less reclaimed by LGBT folks, but it can be a little jarring to people who haven't encountered the way it's used in this article. As Brett is using it, it roughly means "of a non-default sexual orientation and/or gender identity." It grew partly out of a desire to reclaim formerly-hurtful words, and partly out of necessity, since LGBT language, when referring to communities, can get kind of muddy. For example, "lesbian" is gender-specific, but "gay" gets used both ways. This usage of the word queer also cuts down on excessively long paragraphs while acknowledging that there's a ton of diversity among people who fall outside orientation or gender defaults. The word has been getting used this way for at least 20 years, but a lot of straight people have never had

Anyway, I'm a fan, mostly because I've tried *not* using the word while talking broadly about sexually-diverse populations. Incredibly useful tool. Anyway, sorry you were put off by the use of the word, but hey! Maybe knowing this will be useful to you later?

As to Hercules... Yeah, it was annoying that Alonso stated categorically that Hercules is straight. However, what he has to say on the topic isn't all that important. He's smart enough that he might just change his mind. He's also an editor, not a writer. I don't know that there are many writers who can resist at least alluding to Hercules being not-straight; I mean, the character on whom Hercules was based clearly fell outside the Kinsey 6 model.

What bothered me most about this kerfluffle is just that it was the suggestion of Hercules being bi rather than gay that was (temporarily) squashed. There's little gay/lesbian representation in mainstream comics. There's even less representation of bisexual people, which is a huge shame. (Bisexual people too often get side-eye from both the gay and straight communities, and there's very little positive representation of bi people anywhere. This is doubly shame if I'm correct in my suspicion that there are more people who fall outside clear lines of "heterosexual" and "homosexual" than anybody realizes.)

[invasionforce]

Psychologists say that bisexual people lean one way or the other; they are mainly straight or mainly gay. So, I am fine with the idea that Herc will mostly be portrayed as pursuing women. On the other hand, I don't want his propensity for a fling with another man to be erased. We can see Hercules in his own title or in an Avengers title as being interested in women. But it's nice to think that Marvel might have the courage to one day publish a Hercules miniseries in which he teams up with Shatterstar, and one thing leads to another ...

[Pauul]

Psychologists say that bisexual people lean one way or the other; they are mainly straight or mainly gay. So, I am fine with the idea that Herc will mostly be portrayed as pursuing women. On the other hand, I don't want his propensity for a fling with another man to be erased. We can see Hercules in his own title or in an Avengers title as being interested in women. But it's nice to think that Marvel might have the courage to one day publish a Hercules miniseries in which he teams up with Shatterstar, and one thing leads to another ...

Yeah, I don't think any comic book fan would really have an issue with Marvel ignoring Herc's bisexuality. The way the character is portrayed, he clearly prefers women. But having a statement out there that 616 Hercules is straight is a bit damaging.

And there is definitely a problem with bi representation. A lot of bi characters become simply gay, which isn't the case in reality. Actually having Hercules as a bisexual man who prefers women would be very refreshing.

I'm hoping that the folk at Marvel review this and revise their statement about Herc's sexuality.

I don't think it is something which should be referenced in every issue or even in every series which Hercules appears in. But the occasional reference or at least the acknowledgement by Marvel of this little nugget of continuity adds an important dimension to Hercules character.

[Shawn Kane]

I miss the days when the sexuality of a character didn't matter, you just read the comic and decided if you liked the story and art. If you did like it, you kept buying it. If you didn't like it, you didn't buy it anymore.

If Storm, Gambit, Namor, Nightwing and the dozens of other insinuated-but-never-confirmed queer characters were representing canonically, maybe this Herc kerfuffle wouldn't sting as much as it does (it would still sting, though)

That's a bit of a stretch but to each his or her own. It's nice to be able to relate to characters (I certainly had that with the New Mutants in the 80's) but it's okay to like a character that don't have the characteristics that you wish them to have. I think it's better to create new, diverse characters rather than shoehorn something that isn't necessarily consistent with the published history of that character.

[RLAAMJR.]

We already have a lot of books with lgbt characters.

Uncanny xmen with Mystique
Extraordinary xmen with Iceman
New avengers with hulkling and wiccan

We also already have some female ongoing and female led books.

We also have a lot of black characters already on Marvel books.

Yet you guys ask for more because you all feel you're poorly represented still.

How about me as a filipino, are we even getting one? How about the other races?

If you really care about representation then try to ask for what's not there, not that there's already a representative but you still want more representives.

But im fine if you ask for an lgbt representative who has been having an ongoing series. Or perhaps one of the main members of the avengers because we havent got one for that team.

But this i say. We dont need a representative for each team. Give chance to others who dont even have a representation.

[BeccaDannysWife]

Losing Hercules stinks... glad we still have Catman, but I know how Brett feels. If I had lost Thomas, even though he's bi and male, I would be pissed. It's not like we've ever had a bi female character that stuck, either.

[Ka-Zar]

Let's look at the facts:

1. Hercules first appeared in the pages of "Thor" in 1965.
2. Since 1965, Hercules has been known for his numerous affairs with beautiful women.
3. Also since 1965, Hercules has been shown as the kind of character who isn't shy about his emotions (or lust).
4. While the character was dead, there was a hint that the character had a sexual encounter with gay hero Northstar in 2010. This was a comment made by She-Hulk.
5. Since that reference in 2010, Hercules has continued to show interest only in women.

I think we can all agree that the Marvel Comics version of Hercules has been clearly established as a straight hero. I get that you feel like Marvel has taken away something from the character. I feel like you've invested a lot in a character because of his sexual identity and based most of this on a reference made in one comic that could have been just a joke by She-Hulk, or it could be that this was just one writer trying to change a character and then the other folks at Marvel looked at it afterward and said "Hey wait a minute...you can't do that!"

If Hercules being bisexual became official, Marvel would have changed 50 years of comic book history in order to stay true to one reference made by another character that could have been a joke.

Now that Hercules being straight is official, Marvel has stayed true to 50 years of comic book history and has dismissed only one line of dialogue.

I don't see a problem with that.

[sberg1]

I miss the days when the sexuality of a character didn't matter, you just read the comic and decided if you liked the story and art. If you did like it, you kept buying it. If you didn't like it, you didn't buy it anymore.

Perhaps the sexuality of a character didn't matter to some because they had never been unrepresented in mainstream entertainment? As a gay man myself I know that I used to cling to (mostly when I was young/naive and in the closet) any character that showed interest in the same sex - whether I liked the character or not. For me it was nice knowing that, yeah, there are other people out there like me.

[Darth Phoenix]

It matters to me too. most of gay history has been straight washed or has my High school history teacher said of Alexander the great "That part about him is unimportant and and should not be brought up when teaching about such people"