List of greatest Spidey writers not named Lee/Ditko

[oldschool]

Always a fun topic and I would largely agree with this list (outside of some very minor placement edits); the Top 3 are without dispute IMO. And I also am glad to see Mantlo get his props; as the author points out, his work would get far more attention if it was published in ASM and of course had he been able to give us even more of his work. Thoughts?


http://whatculture.com/comics/10-gre...teve-ditko.php

[Mister Mets]

I appreciate Jenkins's placement.

Bendis should be higher.

I'm indifferent on Mantlo. He had a long run, without a significant number of great stories.

I'll probably start reading Defalco's run soon, but I don't really care for his work as a Spider-Man writer all that much.

Definitely agree with #1 and #2.

Slott might rate one or two spots too high.

[oldschool]

I appreciate Jenkins's placement.

Bendis should be higher.

I'm indifferent on Mantlo. He had a long run, without a significant number of great stories.

I'll probably start reading Defalco's run soon, but I don't really care for his work as a Spider-Man writer all that much.

Definitely agree with #1 and #2.

Slott might rate one or two spots too high.

Regarding Mantlo, I think he had a very high level of "B to B+" storylines with very few "A" stories---the Owl/Octopus story would be one of the few. But, in his defense, I think we have to keep in mind that he wrote during a time where any and all big developments had to take place in the flagship title and so he was only allowed to do so much in the satellite books. That started to loosen a few years later when they allowed Peter David to essentially rebrand PP:SSM as the "all-new, all-different" title with a complete change in tone and along with that the ability to hit on some major beats for the character.
I agree with your assessment on Slott and Bendis but disagree about DeFalco; I think his run following Stern was wonderful though his second tour of duty not as great.

[David Walton]

Regarding Mantlo, I think he had a very high level of "B to B+" storylines with very few "A" stories---the Owl/Octopus story would be one of the few. But, in his defense, I think we have to keep in mind that he wrote during a time where any and all big developments had to take place in the flagship title and so he was only allowed to do so much in the satellite books. That started to loosen a few years later when they allowed Peter David to essentially rebrand PP:SSM as the "all-new, all-different" title with a complete change in tone and along with that the ability to hit on some major beats for the character.
I agree with your assessment on Slott and Bendis but disagree about DeFalco; I think his run following Stern was wonderful though his second tour of duty not as great.

PPTSSM is the best of the satellite titles. Even during the long stretches where nothing significant happens, it's still the best at what it does, which is providing a different 'voice' than ASM. Generally speaking, it was the book where Pete's supporting cast played a larger role. At the height of the Black Cat romance, it was Mantlo that fleshed Felicia Hardy out, not Stern. And it was Mantlo who gave us the Kingpin/Silvermane arc, which though largely forgotten now, was every bit as enjoyable as the Hobgoblin stuff over in ASM at the time.

If I understand correctly, PAD 'rebranding' PPTSSM was something of a happy accident, a case where an untested and largely unnoticed writer took advantage of his anonymity to push the envelope. Christopher Priest reportedly caught Hell for it when Shooter realized what had happened. Sort of like how McFarlane reinvented Spider-Man's visuals and it was so popular there's not much the higher-ups could do even though they weren't thrilled with the approach.

[oldschool]

PPTSSM is the best of the satellite titles. Even during the long stretches where nothing significant happens, it's still the best at what it does, which is providing a different 'voice' than ASM. Generally speaking, it was the book where Pete's supporting cast played a larger role. At the height of the Black Cat romance, it was Mantlo that fleshed Felicia Hardy out, not Stern. And it was Mantlo who gave us the Kingpin/Silvermane arc, which though largely forgotten now, was every bit as enjoyable as the Hobgoblin stuff over in ASM at the time.

If I understand correctly, PAD 'rebranding' PPTSSM was something of a happy accident, a case where an untested and largely unnoticed writer took advantage of his anonymity to push the envelope. Christopher Priest reportedly caught Hell for it when Shooter realized what had happened. Sort of like how McFarlane reinvented Spider-Man's visuals and it was so popular there's not much the higher-ups could do even though they weren't thrilled with the approach.

Wow....I've never heard this side of the story! It certainly sounds plausible and something I need to ask PAD next time I see him at a Convention; he is usually very friendly and willing to chat about just about anything.

But, back to the PP:SSM, I absolutely agree with everything you said. I actually can remember standing on line at Forbidden Planet on Broadway in NYC with my copy of PP:SSM #108 with the bold new logo and striking Rich Buckler cover screaming out at me; I then had to read it on the subway going home and was blown away by how gritty and passionate the story was. To this day, PAD's run on that title is an absolute favorite of mine as he excelled whether he wrote the "funny" issues or the hard-hitting stories like the Sin-Eater arc and his dialogue is, of course, second to none.

[David Walton]

Wow....I've never heard this side of the story! It certainly sounds plausible and something I need to ask PAD next time I see him at a Convention; he is usually very friendly and willing to chat about just about anything.

I regret that I've only met Peter David once, and I was sixteen at the time. So, with the kind of eloquence I typically reserved for girls, I said, "I, um, really like what you're doing with Hulk," and he replied, "More great stuff coming up," and that was it. The sad thing is, the line wasn't even that long at the time, because this was twenty years ago in Texas. There will never be a PAD line that short again. But hey, at least I mustered the courage to talk to him, which is more than I can say for Vampirella...

But, back to the PP:SSM, I absolutely agree with everything you said. I actually can remember standing on line at Forbidden Planet on Broadway in NYC with my copy of PP:SSM #108 with the bold new logo and striking Rich Buckler cover screaming out at me; I then had to read it on the subway going home and was blown away by how gritty and passionate the story was. To this day, PAD's run on that title is an absolute favorite of mine as he excelled whether he wrote the "funny" issues or the hard-hitting stories like the Sin-Eater arc and his dialogue is, of course, second to none.

Oh, man, it was a big thing at the time, and Death of Jean DeWolff was just the beginning. I actually think the followup story with Electro is even better, as it deals with Stan Carter's mental illness. There was also the really sad story of the mutant kid killed by the SHIELD agent (who later joined up with Silver Sable). Lots of powerful stuff, but I must say that PAD's run cured me of wanting to visit New York City. He made it seem like quite the Hellhole, and not in the Stan Lee "New Yorkers are funny, cynical assholes" kind of way. I was convinced you could not walk five feet in NYC in 1984 without running into a mohawk motorcycle gang shaking down a senior citizen for his social security money with a switchblade!

[Peter Parker]

I appreciate Jenkins's placement.

Me too, I was just reading PPSM #30 (the ballgame issue) again last night, his work has been traditionally undervalued.

[Metamorphosis]

Wow....I've never heard this side of the story! It certainly sounds plausible and something I need to ask PAD next time I see him at a Convention; he is usually very friendly and willing to chat about just about anything.

But, back to the PP:SSM, I absolutely agree with everything you said. I actually can remember standing on line at Forbidden Planet on Broadway in NYC with my copy of PP:SSM #108 with the bold new logo and striking Rich Buckler cover screaming out at me; I then had to read it on the subway going home and was blown away by how gritty and passionate the story was. To this day, PAD's run on that title is an absolute favorite of mine as he excelled whether he wrote the "funny" issues or the hard-hitting stories like the Sin-Eater arc and his dialogue is, of course, second to none.

Oh, man, it was a big thing at the time, and Death of Jean DeWolff was just the beginning. I actually think the followup story with Electro is even better, as it deals with Stan Carter's mental illness. There was also the really sad story of the mutant kid killed by the SHIELD agent (who later joined up with Silver Sable). Lots of powerful stuff, but I must say that PAD's run cured me of wanting to visit New York City. He made it seem like quite the Hellhole, and not in the Stan Lee "New Yorkers are funny, cynical assholes" kind of way. I was convinced you could not walk five feet in NYC in 1984 without running into a mohawk motorcycle gang shaking down a senior citizen for his social security money with a switchblade!

Those issues are one of a kind--there's also the work PAD did there with the Foreigner, the double crossings of Felicia, and fights with Sabretooth. Also can't forget the hilarious "Eye Witness!" issue (PPTSSM #121), one of the funniest and most ironic Spider-man one-off issues ever.

That's my favorite run by a writer on Spider-man comics, easily. All the other supposed "great" runs don't even come close, IMO.

[Scott Taylor]

The list puts Slott too high and Bendis too low, and leaves out Wein. Number 1 and 2 are good, but I'd put Bendis at 3. After that, Conway, Jenkins, DeFalco, PAD. The bottom three are really a fielder's choice. I don't feel that any of the rest of the writers stand out that much from the rest of the gang. But that top seven I feel strongly about.

If anyone hasn't done it yet, they should read the Comic-Creators on Spider-Man book by DeFalco. I think the information David mentioned about PAD is in there. Plus there are a ton of other background details about these writers. That book has influenced my opinion on some of the various runs, just a little bit.

[RD!]

I agree with everyone on the list but not the order.

Conway should be in the top three instead of Slott. Has anyone outside of Stan Lee influenced the series in such a lasting way more than Conway? He's seriously under-appreciated.
PAD was too high as well. Don't get me wrong, I like PAD and Slott and both should be in the top ten, just not so high in the top ten. Jenkins could have been a bit higher IMO. Glad Mantlo was in there, another criminally under-rated spider scribe. Bendis could have been higher too.

[Captain Haddock]

Even if you quibble with the order, can't really argue with the names. Glad that Stern got 1st place for sure. It does make me wonder how Lee would be rated purely as a writer if he had to take someone else's characters and continuity and follow it up instead of doing his own (amazing) thing. The only real example is Captain America and he added/changed a fair amount to fit him into the Avengers anyway.

[Beacon]

Even if you quibble with the order, can't really argue with the names. Glad that Stern got 1st place for sure. It does make me wonder how Lee would be rated purely as a writer if he had to take someone else's characters and continuity and follow it up instead of doing his own (amazing) thing. The only real example is Captain America and he added/changed a fair amount to fit him into the Avengers anyway.

Stan didn’t create Thor either. He just changed an existing mythological figure so much that they became a new person.

Plus removing the world building stuff from Stan is like removing the psychological stuff from DeMatteis; that’s his strength as a creator.

Heck, when you come down to it, I really don’t think Ditko is all that great an artist especially when compared to contemporaries like Kirby and JR Sr. but he’s among the best when it comes to character design and page layouts. Take that away from him and you’re denying much of the appeal of his early stories.

[Darth Howie]

Can't argue with the top 2, but Bendis should be number 3. I don't have strong opinions on the rest of the list.

[Mister Mets]

Even if you quibble with the order, can't really argue with the names. Glad that Stern got 1st place for sure. It does make me wonder how Lee would be rated purely as a writer if he had to take someone else's characters and continuity and follow it up instead of doing his own (amazing) thing. The only real example is Captain America and he added/changed a fair amount to fit him into the Avengers anyway.

You could look at the reputations of figures like Gardner Fox to see that writers could cocreate staggeringly significant characters but still be largely ignored decades later. Lee's work persists due to a combination of quality and creativity. There are plenty of other writers in comics whose reputation is largely due to work with original characters.

[Custodes]

Gerry Conway,Roy Thomas, Dan Slott, Len Wein. In any order.