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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    In the least I wouldn't fault marvel for having the franchise lay low for a little bit.

    It's almost coincidental timing that the FF book vanished right before this bomb of a movie was about to be set off.
    Almost. Then again, every other book also got cancelled.

    And Secret Wars stars the movie villain as well as a few of the main cast.

    Shrewdly cunning on Marvel's part.

  2. #62
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    that logic might hold some weight if it were just applied to the comics. unfortunately for us, it's not. they are disappearing everywhere.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    that logic might hold some weight if it were just applied to the comics. unfortunately for us, it's not. they are disappearing everywhere.
    Let's put it this way: I've been playing Heroclix since 2002. And in the first 26 Marvel sets the X-Men have had a lot representation, with a new Wolverine in practically every set.

    Since half 2014: nothing. No more mutants. No more FF either, not even in the Age Of Ultron storyline set.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    I really can't see the movie hurting them in the long run. Published works, like comics and books, all come down to really word of mouth for advertising. If a book is good and tells a good story then you'll see more people wanting to read it. I really think it would help to put out a monthly set of books for the stores like Shonen Jump and use it to showcase short stories vs the traditional serial since it let's readers get a good taste for the character and, in some cases, lets them have a hook for the next issue.

  5. #65
    Incredible Member Marvel Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    Fox's films, especially the latest one, has indeed harmed the F4 Brand.
    I fear you are correct. I only hope that Fox has not harmed the FF comic in a major way.

  6. #66
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    I think the biggest fear is really less that the FF movie will harm the marvel brand, and more that people will wrongly associate this movie with the ones from marvel studios and consider this their first dud.

    Marvel studios movies have a lot of momentum... enough to where even the more so-so ones still come off sucessful. They're building up marvel itself as a franchise rather than just it's characters. But momentum can be a tricky thing... it can come and go. And this movie was such a toxic vibe that I'm sure on marvels end there's some concern that will bleed over since this is a marvel property.

    Thankfully a good deal of the criticism against the movie are going out of their way to blame Fox for their handling of the situation. So I think a clear distinction is being made between Fox movies and Marvel ones. We probably won't know for sure until the next marvel movie comes out.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Not really. A 3% bump for all of one month is just a 3% bump. It's tiny. It's almost negligible.
    It is MUCH more than a 3% bump for one month for one book when comic readers are paying more mind to Avengers as a whole, especially when there are 5 or 6 ongoings happening at the same time plus huge events with familiar characters. It adds up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    NThe FF have had a piss-poor reputation among the (very small) 'general comic reading public' long before Marvel sold those rights to Fox.
    Thsi film isn't going to help. It's not going to hurt either. Perlmutter's irrationaity over the rights on the otherhnd...
    That's completely subjective at best and the FF were still selling undeniably better then than now. Its existence now is volatile and has been getting worse for a while ever since the comic market's been flooded with the "necessary", tie-in, event books, big story mentality and oversaturating with Avengers and X-books. Despite that, Fantastic Four still sells better than many other titles who are repeatedly given another shot. In fact, many titles these days can barely break 12 issues without selling below 20k.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    You're reversing the causality.
    What Marvel did with the FF characters isn't because Fox made bad movie. It's because Fox was going to make a movie of an at the time completely undetermined quallity.
    They did all or most of that long before the film came out.

    What Marvel is or isn't doing with the FF has nothing to do with the awefulness of the film and everything with Perlmutter getting his knickers in a twist over Fox not wanting to deal with him. As is Fox's right.
    I wasn't saying Marvel was doing it specifically because of the movie. I'm just thinking that because the movie bombed so hard, it's convenient that Marvel's already in the process of possibly recovering the reputation of these characters, whether they planned for it or not. I assume Marvel planned to split up these characters due to poor sales long before they knew the movie was going to bomb.

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think the biggest fear is really less that the FF movie will harm the marvel brand, and more that people will wrongly associate this movie with the ones from marvel studios and consider this their first dud.
    And I think it's a legitimate concern, but a concern that should be applied to the books as well. It's not difficult for some to associate the FF name as synonymous to poor quality across the board thanks to one giant flop, even if they are more knowledgeable comic readers.
    Last edited by Of Atlantis; 08-14-2015 at 06:01 AM.
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  8. #68
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    I don't know about the effect the movie being horrible and bombing will have on the comics long term.

    I'm not sure it'll have any effect.

    To the general public, definitely it'll have an effect. The general public associates FF with "suck" and that doesn't really have a good long term impact on the property.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I don't know about the effect the movie being horrible and bombing will have on the comics long term.

    I'm not sure it'll have any effect.

    To the general public, definitely it'll have an effect. The general public associates FF with "suck" and that doesn't really have a good long term impact on the property.
    But why would comic readers who aren't fans of the FF think any differently? Even subconsciously. Greater pop culture affects those who read comics too after all.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Of Orphans View Post
    But why would comic readers who aren't fans of the FF think any differently? Even subconsciously. Greater pop culture affects those who read comics too after all.
    You have a point.

    Lots of comic fans already see FF as antiquated.

    A horrible flop movie won't help this point of view at all.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    You have a point.

    Lots of comic fans already see FF as antiquated.


    A horrible flop movie won't help this point of view at all.
    I agree. Even if the movie were just average, I don't think it would help. It would have to be something really amazing to get people to notice the FF in the comics again. I'd even say a giant flop would be more beneficial than an average movie with little discussion. Least it got people talking about the FF.
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  12. #72
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    I think people are really overthinking this. Marvel has "bed rested" it's heroes before. FF is no different. Unless you've got hard proof that crappy adaptations hurt sales, you're either worrying too much, or never much liked the FF in the first place. As far as movie adaptations go, this crapfest of a film will bench the property for years to come even if/when Marvel gets the movie rights back.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Of Orphans View Post
    It is MUCH more than a 3% bump for one month for one book when comic readers are paying more mind to Avengers as a whole, especially when there are 5 or 6 ongoings happening at the same time plus huge events with familiar characters. It adds up.
    I didn't say for one book.
    But the reason that comic readers are paying more mind to Avengers as a whole is not because of the movies. It predates the movies and started when Bendis launched New Avengers, and really exploded with Civil War and Secret Invasion.


    That's completely subjective at best and the FF were still selling undeniably better then than now.
    EVERYTHING was selling undeniably better than it is now. Except DC, which haven't really done much in the way of films beyoond Bats and Supes.

    Its existence now is volatile and has been getting worse for a while ever since the comic market's been flooded with the "necessary", tie-in, event books, big story mentality and oversaturating with Avengers and X-books. Despite that, Fantastic Four still sells better than many other titles who are repeatedly given another shot. In fact, many titles these days can barely break 12 issues without selling below 20k.
    Sells better than some, worse than many... It's not an A-list property in terms of comics sales and hasn't been probably since John Byrne was on it.

    I wasn't saying Marvel was doing it specifically because of the movie. I'm just thinking that because the movie bombed so hard, it's convenient that Marvel's already in the process of possibly recovering the reputation of these characters, whether they planned for it or not. I assume Marvel planned to split up these characters due to poor sales long before they knew the movie was going to bomb.
    On the other hand, one might say that putting out a really good FF book by their best creators would be excellent damage control.
    Of course, Millar and Hitch coming fresh off Ultimates 2 couldn't make the FF into a bestseller.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by beetee View Post
    Nope. Movies don't spike up comic sales when they're good and won't spike down sales or "Tarnish" the brand when they're bad. In case people haven't noticed Green Lantern still gets published and Hal Jordan is still there no matter how much the film sucked. The FF is just getting some needed bed rest like Thor a few years back.
    The comics sales don't spike because Marvel has never marketed to the movie audience. No attempt at all to tie-in.

    I've seen elsewhere said that the most logical of all marketing campaigns is "If you liked the movie, you'll love the comic!"

    After all, isn't that supposedly why all the comics/animateds/etc got "movie-ized"? To make them more accessible to the new readers who know Marvel from the movies?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
    The comics sales don't spike because Marvel has never marketed to the movie audience. No attempt at all to tie-in.

    I've seen elsewhere said that the most logical of all marketing campaigns is "If you liked the movie, you'll love the comic!"
    Where were you back when the first X-Men and Spider-Man films started to come out? We had tie-ins up the wazoo. The Ultimate Universe was practially set up to cater to the new (non-existant) audience.

    On the practical side, being stuck in the Direct Market makes it pretty much useles to mrket to anybody not already buying comics. They have tried, and tried, and tried, and tried...

    Also, you don't want a spike. Spikes are useless. You want a permanent increase. Spikes are easy. Just do some extra covers and bob's your uncle.

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