Secret Wars #5 Review (w/SPOILERS)

[jackolover]

I was told to go back and read the part that proves Owen Reece goes crazy the less of him there are, and that's true. But one of the things that struck me this reading when Doom attacks the Beyonders and cries, "No!", is Doom thought the Beyonders were linear, and could not stop him by time travelling back. What if the Beyonders were not linear as Doom assumed, and they chose to pick this moment to come back and confront Doom? Then they foiled Dooms plot after all, and Doom thinks he won, but he didn't? The way Doom tells it, they destroyed the Beyonders, and stored all their energy in One Owen Reece in white space, that allows Doom to make Battleworld. There is no mention of preserving sections of Earths in NA #33. It states Doom was able to make Battleworld.

Now I have read SW #5 myself, and at no time did I feel Doom was scared by what the Raftees want. That was purely Valerias judgement call. I felt Doom was in full control, and his explanation that he could destroy Battleworld in his anger against the Raftees rings true. Certainly Doom couldn't preserve anything before the Beyonders confrontation, because 100,000 realities suddenly vanished and only 22 realities remained, (and Doom didn't have Beyonder power till after that shrinkage of realities) for Doom to preserve from. I don't know why Strange was so abhorred with doing this himself, because there were only 22 realities left, so the job was a pretty small one, but whatever. Once Doom concentrated on the 22 realities, it was here he created the domains of Battleworld, all 40 of them. Makes sense mathematically. 22 worlds, two Domains are preserved every Incursion equals 44 domains potentially.

A couple of dilemmas

1. Why does what the Raftees want, seem to be a threat to Doom?
2. The real secret behind the power being used to hold the Battleworld together?

I thought it was a real exciting instalment of Secret Wars and fit nicely in the narrative of the whole. The Raftees appeared last issue and didn't bow down to Doom. They hurriedly were scattered around the planet, and Doom couldn't take the time to hunt them down. He has instructed the Future Foundation to take care of rounding them up, and though it took a long time to organise this, Doom is in no hurry about this at all. Doom holds a function for Stranges memorial, doesn't detect Jane Thor not 20 feet away from him, and lazily speaks to Owen Reece about who is going to be next after Strange to die. After all Doom told Valeria they are all going to die, and besides, Owen thought Strange originally died of cancer, until he noticed Dooms guilt caught him out as the murderer.

I would have liked some inkling of disquiet in Sue Von Doom towards Victor, just to be a potential problem in their relationship, but Sue showed pretty normal loyalty to him.

[The Fury]

1. Why does what the Raftees want, seem to be a threat to Doom?

Some good questions but on this one, maybe it's as simple as he doesn't want his rule questioned.

[vitruvian]

Certainly Doom couldn't preserve anything before the Beyonders confrontation, because 100,000 realities suddenly vanished and only 22 realities remained, (and Doom didn't have Beyonder power till after that shrinkage of realities) for Doom to preserve from. I don't know why Strange was so abhorred with doing this himself, because there were only 22 realities left, so the job was a pretty small one, but whatever. Once Doom concentrated on the 22 realities, it was here he created the domains of Battleworld, all 40 of them. Makes sense mathematically. 22 worlds, two Domains are preserved every Incursion equals 44 domains potentially.

Nope. There are a lot more universes than 40 represented throughout the 40 domains, and it wasn't 22 Incursions with two realities each, it was 22 realities, so even if it was just 40 alternate universes represented, it still wouldn't work out. Doom clearly somehow did preserve fragments or remnants from universes destroyed prior to or during the confrontation with the Beyonders. This actually fits with the observations made by the Illuminati prior to that confrontation, which showed that the Incursion zones were starting to disappear milliseconds later than the rest of their universes, indicating that something different (such as some agency like Doom preserving just those parts of the universes and transporting or storing them somewhere) was happening with those zones.

But remember, Doom is not restricted to staying linear in time... it's perfectly possible that once he had enough power, he was able to reach into the past of these universes in order to preserve remnants of them to use on Battleworld*. On the theory that the Beyonders represent the editors and writers (and presumably artists) of the comics, besides such beings not being linear so far as Doom is concerned (since a writer can reach into Doom's past and muck it up any time they want), there's another count against it, which would be that there wasn't some huge slaughter of Marvel editors and writers recently. You can't even say that they've stopped having control over the comics, having it taken away by Doom for the time being, since we know they're continuing to turn in scripts, etc., just the same as always. But it is a nice meta-theory nonetheless.

*Now, if you want to get philosophical about it, it's actually a very difficult question whether there's any real difference between a) reaching into the past and pulling people, objects, and locations from it into the present, and b) creating duplicates of past people, objects, and locations in the present. Kind of the same as for many concepts of teleportation, you have the question of whether you're actually transporting anybody, or just destroying them where they were and recreating them where you want them to be. Did Captain Kirk die and get resurrected every time Scotty beamed him somewhere?

[Nosocialize]

I hate to say it but unfortunately a lot of series across the board are ultimately written with the trade in mind. Which leads sadly to issues that dont read well on their own but are great as part of the bigger picture.

I think writing for the trade allows for a more complex and varied plot, similar to a movie, but it does hamper that monthly reader experience.

[Nosocialize]

Some good questions but on this one, maybe it's as simple as he doesn't want his rule questioned.

I would suspect since they weren't created by Doom his powers aren't as useful against them?

[Iron Maiden]

I would suspect since they weren't created by Doom his powers aren't as useful against them?

That could be. Some of the other tie ins, and I am not getting all of them, reveal other facets of Battleworld. In Attilan Rising, Black Bolt shows to Medusa how she is being mind controlled into obedience to God Doom and there are devices hovering all over the planet to reinforce this. Maybe that won't work on the raft survivors. And that's a pretty powerful group there to have to contend with. The Thor Corps had more than they could handle with Thanos's group. I would think that God Doom could just zap them all like Stephen though.

[Iron Maiden]

But remember, Doom is not restricted to staying linear in time... it's perfectly possible that once he had enough power, he was able to reach into the past of these universes in order to preserve remnants of them to use on Battleworld*. On the theory that the Beyonders represent the editors and writers (and presumably artists) of the comics, besides such beings not being linear so far as Doom is concerned (since a writer can reach into Doom's past and muck it up any time they want), there's another count against it, which would be that there wasn't some huge slaughter of Marvel editors and writers recently. You can't even say that they've stopped having control over the comics, having it taken away by Doom for the time being, since we know they're continuing to turn in scripts, etc., just the same as always. But it is a nice meta-theory nonetheless.

Good point about Josh77's meta theory making the Beyonders TPTB at Marvel. Look at how there's been the controversy about Wanda and Pietro's parentage. One writer reveals it was Bob and Madeline Frank, then another comes along and makes it Magneto. A writer/editor can definitely time travel through the history the characters. They just can't do it in our own reality. They recently tweaked Doom's origin so that now we have Ben going into his dorm room and fiddling around with Victor's device to contact the Netherworld Reed just brushed off Ben's feelings of guilt by saying Victor was already crazy since he was trying to talk to dead people. WTF? Dead people show up all the time in the MU.

[Iron Maiden]

Dan Slott is apparently going in the direction of making Peter Parker the next Tony Stark and upping Parker's game. Knowing nothing of the story-line, this suspiciously seems to me like Slott has realized that Parker had to be upgraded to become a peer to villains such as Norman Osborn, and I suppose Doom, or the Maker playing the role of the new Doom.

Still, I think Thanos reign in the comics as the premier villain will only be temporary. A lot of villains have had a shot at it. Osborn was pretty prominent for a while not that far back. Loki is far more of a presence in the movies than Thanos right now but can you say he is currently the premier villain in the comics? His movie popularity certainly got him an ongoing, something that never happened with the character before.

Doom just works better across the board because not every comic goes cosmic on a regular basis. Doom obviously has ambitions in that realm but with his kingdom of Latveria it makes Doom more "grounded" or Earthbound than Thanos

[Nosocialize]

That could be. Some of the other tie ins, and I am not getting all of them, reveal other facets of Battleworld. In Attilan Rising, Black Bolt shows to Medusa how she is being mind controlled into obedience to God Doom and there are devices hovering all over the planet to reinforce this. Maybe that won't work on the raft survivors. And that's a pretty powerful group there to have to contend with. The Thor Corps had more than they could handle with Thanos's group. I would think that God Doom could just zap them all like Stephen though.

I think Secret Wars is all an allegory for the problems with religion. The mind control of it on people. Though Doom is a man of science it's still a religion to the people and that must be it. He has no control over the raft characters. They know he's a false god and that knowledge is the most powerful thing to stop him.

[The Fury]

I would suspect since they weren't created by Doom his powers aren't as useful against them?

I didn't think Doom created the beings of Battleworld, just the world itself. He 'saved' parts of dieing Earths, it just happened to have certain being on it. Would Doom really go out of his way to create Apocalypse?

Besides, I doubt him not being able to use them against them is odd as he apparently easily snapped the last Cosmic God's neck.

The Thor Corps had more than they could handle with Thanos's group. I would think that God Doom could just zap them all like Stephen though.

The Hog Thor said "I'm sure we can win but..." He said to only have a few casualties. Not one was killed before Doom stepped in. I think the Thors that were there were doing fine. Are these Thors as powerful as Thor though?

[Haquim]

1. Why does what the Raftees want, seem to be a threat to Doom?
2. The real secret behind the power being used to hold the Battleworld together?

I believe the answer to both of your questions was given by Valeria this very issue:

Doom literally is Battleworld and its people (the kids of the future foundation say as much:"We are made of the stuff of Doom") which means he's used the power of the Beyonders to remake everything he could, people included. Strange WAS NOT made of the "stuff of Doom", because he was not recreated by Doom with the power of the Beyonders. So, as Valeria puts it "Strange's power was independent of Doom's, and he registered as an ABSENCE OF DOOM". Doom literally is holding the planet togheter using his willpower. Doubt "harms" his ability to do so, he tries to erase all doubt (and let's not forget that's Doom's nature, he's a tyrant whose greatest strength is self confidence). The danger the raftees pose to Doom is they undermine the foundation of the world he created and put the lie to it. And more importantly Doom's self confidence is harmed by Reed Richards. He makes him doubt his own abilities, and in a world where he's keeping everything togheter by willpower that's an extremely dangerous thing to do. That's why he kills Strange: the words he said were true but Doom simply could not accept them.

[Iron Maiden]

I didn't think Doom created the beings of Battleworld, just the world itself. He 'saved' parts of dieing Earths, it just happened to have certain being on it. Would Doom really go out of his way to create Apocalypse?

Besides, I doubt him not being able to use them against them is odd as he apparently easily snapped the last Cosmic God's neck.


The Hog Thor said "I'm sure we can win but..." He said to only have a few casualties. Not one was killed before Doom stepped in. I think the Thors that were there were doing fine. Are these Thors as powerful as Thor though?

The Elder Thor was killed. We saw his funeral in SW#4.

[The Fury]

The Elder Thor was killed. We saw his funeral in SW#4.

1 Thor unprepared versus at least 4 as powerful if not more than him. I was of course referring to the main battle, many prepared Thors (probably 10 or so if I remember the picture) against them with only injuries and one even had time to stop and communicate with Doom.

[Ken Ashcroft]

I wonder if there will be any interaction between the MU Reed Richards and the younger Ultimate Universe version?

[Omega Alpha]

1 Thor unprepared versus at least 4 as powerful if not more than him. I was of course referring to the main battle, many prepared Thors (probably 10 or so if I remember the picture) against them with only injuries and one even had time to stop and communicate with Doom.

Yeah, the Cabal was clearly struggling to win the battle, except for Reed and Maximus in the force field not giving a damn.