"Batman: Europa," "Dark Knight III: The Master Race" Arrive in November

[cgh]

You forgot Holy Terror and Batman/Spawn! :b

I would have gladly included Holy Terror if it was a Batman story as originally intended. I think it's great stuff, some of Miller's best work (I understand some of the dialogue and subject matter is offensive to some but that's not what I'm referencing here).

As for Batman/Spawn, I've never been clear if that's a Millerverse story or not. Wikipedia claims it's a "companion piece to DKR". Has Miller ever confirmed it's in his Bat-continuity?

[Drz]

I would have gladly included Holy Terror if it was a Batman story as originally intended.

The character of Fixer's inner turmoil and thoughts fit perfectly with his Batman after Year One but before All Star.

As for Batman/Spawn, I've never been clear if that's a Millerverse story or not. Wikipedia claims it's a "companion piece to DKR". Has Miller ever confirmed it's in his Bat-continuity?

We're never going to see an interview where Miller is going to talk about Millerverse, but it's easy to say that everything Miller did is in his own continuity, much like Grant Morrison's story is in continuity with his own, regardless of reboots or whatnot.

[Joker]

I love all Miller Batman - actually all Miller period. So:

Year One
ASBAR
DKR
DKSA
DKIII

The only thing is, I will have to deal with the fact that DKIII is likely the final Millerverse story. Very sad.

Isn't there another Miller Batman short in that old DKR HC from way back?

There's also a Janson Batman short in one of the Batman Black and White books that I like to include in my Millerverse continuity.

[taylortexas]

The character of Fixer's inner turmoil and thoughts fit perfectly with his Batman after Year One but before All Star.

It's Batman and Catwoman without the ears on their costumes. The police commissioner is identical to Gordon. And there's even the "Statue of Justice" that sometimes exists in Gotham, depending on the writer. Sure, technically and legally it's not a Batman story but I'd be willing to bet that it's still a Batman story in Miller's mind and fits somewhere in his timeline for the character.

My main argument against that would actually be that it doesn't read like Batman, or at least not the one from Year One. It's definitely the sociopathic madman present in ASBAR and DKSA. The Fixer kills people, doesn't he? Which is something Batman clearly opposes in DKR, which Holy Terror would have to take place prior to. If one wanted to read Miller's Batman from Year One to DKSA, it would be a jumbled mess of characterization and general quality of writing, IMO.

[Drz]

My main argument against that would actually be that it doesn't read like Batman, or at least not the one from Year One. It's definitely the sociopathic madman present in ASBAR and DKSA. The Fixer kills people, doesn't he? Which is something Batman clearly opposes in DKR, which Holy Terror would have to take place prior to. If one wanted to read Miller's Batman from Year One to DKSA, it would be a jumbled mess of characterization and general quality of writing, IMO.

Remember that in TDKSA Batman becomes approving of a new generation of heroes murdering villains such as Lex Luthor, and yeah Fixer is a sociopathic madman that helps to add up how messed up he becomes in ASBAR. In ASBAR for example Batman hates the man who killed his parents and says he'll never forgive him, but the opening shots of TDKR have Batman feeling pity for the random man who killed his parents and blames society.

I just like to think how the Batman from Year One had these struggles with his crusade and his emotions.

[cgh]

The character of Fixer's inner turmoil and thoughts fit perfectly with his Batman after Year One but before All Star.

We're never going to see an interview where Miller is going to talk about Millerverse, but it's easy to say that everything Miller did is in his own continuity, much like Grant Morrison's story is in continuity with his own, regardless of reboots or whatnot.

It's Batman and Catwoman without the ears on their costumes. The police commissioner is identical to Gordon. And there's even the "Statue of Justice" that sometimes exists in Gotham, depending on the writer. Sure, technically and legally it's not a Batman story but I'd be willing to bet that it's still a Batman story in Miller's mind and fits somewhere in his timeline for the character.

My main argument against that would actually be that it doesn't read like Batman, or at least not the one from Year One. It's definitely the sociopathic madman present in ASBAR and DKSA. The Fixer kills people, doesn't he? Which is something Batman clearly opposes in DKR, which Holy Terror would have to take place prior to. If one wanted to read Miller's Batman from Year One to DKSA, it would be a jumbled mess of characterization and general quality of writing, IMO.

You both make good points. I've never included HT in my Millerverse continuity for the trivial reason that the costumes aren't "correct". But in this interview, Miller seems clear that this isn't Batman. So I guess I'm still going to leave it out of my personal Millerverse after all.

As for ASBAR, the entire story, unfinished as it is, is about the humanizing influence of Robin. It's pretty much summed up in the final panel of #9. So I agree, for HT to take place after that would be a pretty uneven character arc for Batman.

[TomSlick]

It's Batman and Catwoman without the ears on their costumes. The police commissioner is identical to Gordon. And there's even the "Statue of Justice" that sometimes exists in Gotham, depending on the writer. Sure, technically and legally it's not a Batman story but I'd be willing to bet that it's still a Batman story in Miller's mind and fits somewhere in his timeline for the character.

It's certainly Batman in Miller's mind but after DC realized what a POS this story was and refused to publish it, he and his editor Bob Schreck, who obviously cannot say "no" to Miller no matter how asinine his stories have become over the years, took their ball and ran off to an independent publisher who was all too willing to publish that garbage just for the "Miller" name.

Sorry, had to rant.

You're right, though in that it certainly doesn't read like the other Batman stuff.

[Drz]

As for ASBAR, the entire story, unfinished as it is, is about the humanizing influence of Robin. It's pretty much summed up in the final panel of #9. So I agree, for HT to take place after that would be a pretty uneven character arc for Batman.

No No, Holy Terror happens BEFORE All Star Batman and Robin.

Amazon.com: Is it a contemporary look at Batman?

Frank Miller: Yes, it so "about now" that it would be like Batman up against Al-Queda, so it's definitely contemporary. But it's a young Batman.

Amazon.com: Pre-Robin?

Frank Miller: Yep, pre-Robin--which brings us to Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder (a new comic book Miller is working on with artist Jim Lee).

Amazon.com: Tell us a little about that new project--I think I read somewhere you called it Batman Year 1.5 ?

Frank Miller: Yeah, I think I said something like that. We'll be launching the series shortly but we're just getting started. It will be a lot about Robin. I'm going to finally explain why there even is a Robin. You know, why would Batman put a little kid into danger?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.htm...8&docId=562386


He eventually showed Holy Terror to DC and discovered that DC wouldn't publish it, and he knew the only way he could get Holy Terror published was to change the names from the DC copyrighted names, remove the ears from Batman and Catwoman's costumes, and he has to claim that the Fixer is very different than Batman in order to prevent DC from calling it a copyright infringement.

So again in my canon:
Year One: No killing.
Holy Terror: Killing
ASBAR: No killing, but brutality.
*Jason Todd dies, retirement*
TDKR: No killing, but brutality.
TDKSA: Killing is okay.

[blackbolt396]

not sure on the 12.99 price for the collectors but i suppose its not too bad, slight longer thna a normal comic with extra story

but will we collect all these and then a hardcover version come with all 8.... likely

I'm going with the collectors edition 12.99 isn't that bad.

[El Sombrero]

I'm interested in Europa. The story sounds fun and I really like Camuncoli and LOVE Jim Lee. I also like the other artists that have been attached to the project in one way or another (Bermejo, Jock, Latorre). I think Lee is only responsible for one issue so if he can just get that done I would imagine the whole thing could come out in reasonable time.

I'm really apathetic about Dark Knight 3. I actually liked DKSA and ASBAR a lot, but they took things to such an extreme that I don't really have any desire to go back to Miller's Bat-world.

[cgh]

No No, Holy Terror happens BEFORE All Star Batman and Robin.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.htm...8&docId=562386


He eventually showed Holy Terror to DC and discovered that DC wouldn't publish it, and he knew the only way he could get Holy Terror published was to change the names from the DC copyrighted names, remove the ears from Batman and Catwoman's costumes, and he has to claim that the Fixer is very different than Batman in order to prevent DC from calling it a copyright infringement.

So again in my canon:
Year One: No killing.
Holy Terror: Killing
ASBAR: No killing, but brutality.
*Jason Todd dies, retirement*
TDKR: No killing, but brutality.
TDKSA: Killing is okay.

Ah right, thanks for the clarification. It does make more sense that way. All this talk about it has made me want to launch into a Millerverse re-read - I recently read Sin City vols. 1 and 2 again and now I'm feeling the Miller Bat-vibes too.

[Drz]

Read Holy Terror after Year One but before ASBAR and you can see how it makes sense, especially when in ASBAR Batman meets Catwoman again.

[JBatmanFan05]

The biggest fear with Europa is that it will be an unremarkable story just aimed at showcasing the art. C'mon Azz, write a good one.

[thwhtGuardian]

The biggest fear with Europa is that it will be an unremarkable story just aimed at showcasing the art. C'mon Azz, write a good one.

I've generally liked Azz's previous Batman work so I'm going to assume the best.

[Slim Shady]

I'm all for Azz on Bats. Checking that one out.

I have no idea what to expect from Miller at this point and time. Kubert is a plus though. Holding down my expectations a bit on this one.