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  1. #61
    Mighty Member Franchise408's Avatar
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    As for the First Class comparison, it really doesn't hold up.

    The main trilogy was retconned and written out of continuity for the sake of a clean slate and a new beginning where they can go in any direction. But with the happy ending seen at the end of Days Of Future Past, it no longer can go in any direction. It has to end up at that one point.

    As far as First Class goes... The intention of that movie was completely different. The intention of that movie was to show us the "how", not the "what". The send of consequence came not from what happened, but HOW it happened. Magneto being responsible for crippling Xavier changes how I look at the main trilogy. It changed the dynamic of the relationship. We knew there'd be a falling out, the drama was seeing how it happened.

    Things like seeing Beast and his relationship to Xavier in DOFP change the dynamic of X-Men: The Last Stand. It adds so much more to that relationship when Xavier says "you're always welcome here, you're a part of this place". Now we know just how much a part he was.

    Before Logan traveled back in time and changed things of course :P

    You're making a movie called "Apocalypse" that's supposed to be the highest scale stakes the franchise has seen... But nobody is gonna be in danger of dying. Okay...

  2. #62
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    No you don't know that. We don't know what's going to happen in the movie. Heck, they left themselves and out with Beasts comments about time correcting itself. So basically, we'll just have to wait and see how it goes, okay...

  3. #63
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franchise408 View Post
    The main trilogy was retconned and written out of continuity for the sake of a clean slate and a new beginning where they can go in any direction. But with the happy ending seen at the end of Days Of Future Past, it no longer can go in any direction. It has to end up at that one point.

    You're making a movie called "Apocalypse" that's supposed to be the highest scale stakes the franchise has seen... But nobody is gonna be in danger of dying. Okay...
    They can kill off whoever they want in Apocalypse because that end scene in DOFP holds no weight. It was just there to put a happy spin on that movie. You can easily explain that scene away as Wolverine going to his happy place as he was drowning to death. Or that the scene occurs in an alternate universe and shows that there is a universe out there where they survive. Meanwhile in the present which for the movies will be the 80s, everything changed and Apocalypse rose to power.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  4. #64
    Mighty Member Franchise408's Avatar
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    Honestly, a lot of this is my bias because of my (what many fans would consider "misplaced") love for X-Men: The Last Stand, but I really wish that Cyclops and Jean Grey weren't shown in that final scene.

    I mean, I've seen the movie 7 times now in theaters, and I've come to terms with the fact that this movie reboots the franchise, and starting over with no attachment to the past films, but I still don't like it.

    And the scene only now causes these kinds of debates and inconsistencies.

    Unfortunately, Kinberg wanted to essentially buy back the love of the fans after X-Men 3, and Bryan Singer wants to play the bitter bro because he left to do Superman and other directors came in and made a movie that wasn't his vision, so the 2 of them Wonder Twin Power activated in form of Wrecking Ball to the X-Men series, and set off a nuke to the entire franchise. All for the sake of 1 or 2 characters.....

    But really, unless there's more time travel in X-Men: Apocalypse, and I believe Kinberg is on record saying there won't be, that is the conclusive destination for the current timeline. A "dream" while he was drowning is even more of a cop out. How many times is this franchise going to establish some sort of fate or conclusion, only to undo it?

    Jean Grey died in X2, she returns in X-Men: The Last Stand - understandable, this is the foundation of one of the greatest X-Men stories ever told.
    Xavier died in X-Men: The Last Stand, he returns in... X-Men: The Last Stand - forgivable, because it gave us X-Men: Days Of Future Past. But still...
    Magneto was cured in X-Men: The Last Stand, his powers return in... X-Men: The Last Stand - again, forgivable, because it gave us X-Men: Days Of Future Past. But still...
    Cyclops died in X-Men: The Last Stand, he's brought back in X-Men: Days Of Future Past
    Jean Grey died... again... in X-Men: The Last Stand, she's brought back in X-Men: Days Of Future Past
    Rogue was cured in X-Men: The Last Stand, she was intended to be uncured in X-Men: Days Of Future Past
    Wolverine lost his adamantium claws in The Wolverine, had them back inexplicably in X-Men: Days Of Future Past
    Wolverine suffered through the Weapon X experiment at the hands of William Stryker, now seemingly never goes through Weapon X post X-Men: Days Of Future Past
    Not to mention the deaths of Storm, Iceman, Colossus, Bishop, Blink, Sunspot, and Warpath (and the stated but not shown death of Beast) in X-Men: Days Of Future Past that are all undone - again, understandable and forgivable because that's the freaking story being told

    The fates of every major character has been completely undone in this franchise. Sometimes, it's understandable due to the narrative of the stories being told (Jean Grey returning after dying in X2; the future characters of X-Men: Days Of Future Past being alive in the altered future). Sometimes, it's just cheap (Cyclops, Xavier, Magneto, Rogue, etc.)

    I mean, this franchise is 7 movies deep now, and it feels like we're at the status quo after the first X-Men movie, due to every freaking fate or storyline consequence being undone.

    This movie already struggles to stick with it's own consequences. Whether I agree with the decision to re-write the continuity for the sake of moving forward with a new, alternate timeline that shows us that Cyclops and Jean Grey never died, or disagree with that decision, the decision has been made, can we actually stick with a decision for once in this franchise???

    I mean, in a lot of ways, the ending of X-Men: Days Of Future Past is EXACTLY where I want an X-Men film series to be - a team consisting of Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Wolverine, Beast, Kitty Pryde, Colossus (both as a couple), Iceman, and Rogue, is pretty much as definitive of an X-Men squad as you can get, and I'd love nothing more than for X-Men: Apocalypse to be an original cast film set in this new altered future, with THIS team heading the charge.

    But despite the happy state of affairs, and the fact that the films now show us with pretty much the ultimately definitive X-Men team of all time (only person missing, in my opinion, is Gambit, and to a lesser extent, Nightcrawler), what it represents in terms of undoing everything that came before it is what bothers me.

    I don't like every decision made in this franchise (here's looking at you "killing Cyclops", and "curing Rogue"), but at some point, it would be nice to actually see this franchise stick with a narrative decision that it makes.

  5. #65
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Here is a thought. Why don't we wait until we see how things unfold? The fact is the next movie is set in the 80s so none of what you are discussing will have much of an impact until at least 2018 or later. That's like 4 years from now. And frankly it is likely the movie after Apocalypse will be set in the 90s if they continue their slow march through the decades so it might not be until 2020 before any of this matters. So does it really matter at this point?

    And the journey is still intact. Everything we saw still happened and DOFP simply changed our point of view from the original universe those things took place in to an alternate universe where they haven't yet. All that really happened is our journey in that original universe ended and our journey in the alternate universe created by the events of DOFP has just begun.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  6. #66
    Incredible Member StormDisciple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Here is a thought. Why don't we wait until we see how things unfold? The fact is the next movie is set in the 80s so none of what you are discussing will have much of an impact until at least 2018 or later. That's like 4 years from now. And frankly it is likely the movie after Apocalypse will be set in the 90s if they continue their slow march through the decades so it might not be until 2020 before any of this matters. So does it really matter at this point?

    And the journey is still intact. Everything we saw still happened and DOFP simply changed our point of view from the original universe those things took place in to an alternate universe where they haven't yet. All that really happened is our journey in that original universe ended and our journey in the alternate universe created by the events of DOFP has just begun.
    Quoted for truth, I agree completely with you.

  7. #67
    Mighty Member Franchise408's Avatar
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    I mean, this thread is called the "X-Men: Apocalypse Speculation" thread... are we not allowed to speculate on what we think will happen based on what already has?

    Anyways, the point is, even if the next movies are in the 80's and 90's, the fates of certain characters and the world is shown in the 2020's. So we know that certain characters will survive the 80's and 90's, and we know the world reaches a certain point by the 2020's, the fact that it won't be until 2018 or later until we're back in the 2020's is irrelevant.
    Last edited by Franchise408; 06-07-2014 at 11:39 AM.

  8. #68
    Incredible Member RCX's Avatar
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    I wanted to see more Sunspot, Blink and Warpath, but I feel like the success of DOFP opens many possibilities to the future of X franchise. We may see them along with Cable, Domino and possibly Warren (just to mention a few) in a future X-Force movie.

    We can see the main roster (Cyclops, Storm, Jean, Wolverine and Beast) not only in the 80's but also in the 90's. This team can include, in the future, characters like Psylocke, Gambit, Nightcrawler. Some characters would be too young to be part of this team but in a different (present) timeline we have Colossus, Kitty, Iceman and Rogue.

    So this sort of divides the franchise in three. There will be enough room for everybody and since Logan will have another movie for himself, this clears the way for fanfavorites that were handled poorly.

    But no Deadpool for me, thank you.

  9. #69
    Wily Veteran cc008's Avatar
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    Deadpool's a lock for X-Force.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member TheRealWashout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cc008 View Post
    Deadpool's a lock for X-Force.
    If X-Force actually ends up happening.

  11. #71
    Wily Veteran cc008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealWashout View Post
    If X-Force actually ends up happening.
    Right. 10char

  12. #72
    Incredible Member TheRealWashout's Avatar
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    I'm still holding out hope that Deadpool is a villain/side-character in X-Force. I think he's best used when off on his own and not part of the team.

  13. #73
    Wily Veteran cc008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealWashout View Post
    I'm still holding out hope that Deadpool is a villain/side-character in X-Force. I think he's best used when off on his own and not part of the team.
    I would prefer him to be some sort of antagonist in X-Force too. It would work better that way.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCX View Post
    I wanted to see more Sunspot, Blink and Warpath, but I feel like the success of DOFP opens many possibilities to the future of X franchise. We may see them along with Cable, Domino and possibly Warren (just to mention a few) in a future X-Force movie.

    We can see the main roster (Cyclops, Storm, Jean, Wolverine and Beast) not only in the 80's but also in the 90's. This team can include, in the future, characters like Psylocke, Gambit, Nightcrawler. Some characters would be too young to be part of this team but in a different (present) timeline we have Colossus, Kitty, Iceman and Rogue.

    So this sort of divides the franchise in three. There will be enough room for everybody and since Logan will have another movie for himself, this clears the way for fanfavorites that were handled poorly.

    But no Deadpool for me, thank you.
    I'd rather see Psylocke start out in X-Force myself.

  15. #75
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franchise408 View Post
    I mean, this thread is called the "X-Men: Apocalypse Speculation" thread... are we not allowed to speculate on what we think will happen based on what already has?

    Anyways, the point is, even if the next movies are in the 80's and 90's, the fates of certain characters and the world is shown in the 2020's. So we know that certain characters will survive the 80's and 90's, and we know the world reaches a certain point by the 2020's, the fact that it won't be until 2018 or later until we're back in the 2020's is irrelevant.
    Except most of your post was not speculating but going on and on about stuff that has already happened and why you didn't like it. And it is all the more illogical as most of what you went on about was the fact that the movies ended up undoing things we saw earlier in the movies while then claiming that because of DOFP we already know which characters will survive Apocalypse. Well um no we don't because you just said they retcon/change stuff all the time so they could do the same as it relates to the ending of DOFP.

    So the point here is your argument is logically inconsistent. In essence your first argument directly contradicts your second which is why I suggested you just wait and see. You are so wrapped up in your complaints, you can't see the forest for the trees. If you were making a coherent argument it would be one thing but again you can't bemoan the fact they change or retcon stuff all the time in one breath while then simultaneously arguing that the ending of DOFP means everything is set in stone without it coming off as a contradiction.

    And the fact it won't be 2018 or later until we are back in the 2020s is entirely relevant because between now and 4 or 6 years from now, Singer or Kinberg could easily decide they want to go in a different direction and ignore the ending of DOFP. Hell a new director may replace Singer and decide he doesn't give a shit about the DOFP ending. There are any number of scenarios where the movie landscape is so different that it renders the ending in DOFP meaningless. That is why it matters.
    Last edited by remydat; 06-07-2014 at 10:45 PM.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

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