X-Men: Apocalypse Movie Speculation

[yogaflame]

I'm not saying X-Men should be just like that movie(but I wouldn't complain. I loved Ang Lee's super cerebral masterpiece version of Hulk, which is still my favorite on-screen version of the character to date), but the way he approaches fight choreography, and cinematography, are sorely needed in the X-films. I love the civil rights metaphors in X-Men, but they are not a treaties on how to change the world. They have a great metaphor sandwiched in a super-hero soap opera. Singer tries to be so serious(while not making any progression over 16 years in terms of moving the metaphor forward), and then its time for an action sequence and he just doesn't have the muscles to pull them off. The Nightcrawler scene was inspired, I'll give him that, but that is the best sequence in the entire franchise(and it has been practically regurgitated in the form of 2 Quicksilver scenes that play off the same techniques for the most part), and it happened over a decade ago! Not once have we seen a well-choreographed team battle(that ending of Apocalypse was weak sauce, and even there is was 'everyone take a turn until Jean deus ex machina's the whole thing'). Not once have we seen a good Danger Room training sequence(which is basically the bread and butter of the X-Men).

[Divine Spark]

Would Jean's stomp of Apocalypse even count as a deus ex machina? Those things are defined as problem solvers that are unexpected and it's not like she hasn't show that level of power before.



And Xavier not holding her powers back makes sense given his arc in DOFP about having hope in people and seeing the future.

[Divine Spark]

Btw, I came across this scene.



Why did they delete this? Hope it gets recycled in a future film.

[yogaflame]

Within the context of Apocalypse, Jean's sudden Phoenix flare up is the definition of deus ex machina.

[Celestial]

Within the context of Apocalypse, Jean's sudden Phoenix flare up is the definition of deus ex machina.

As much as I did like that scene, I do feel like they introduced it too early and made no sense.

[iacobusleo]

Within the context of Apocalypse, Jean's sudden Phoenix flare up is the definition of deus ex machina.

Agreed, though the deus ex machina feeling could have been avoided if Jean's character arc, and Xavier's relationship to her (since this is still a FC movie), was front and centre. The Phoenix scene can only be appreciated if you take into context Xavier's wider series character arc about having faith in people and not holding them back. Unfortunately, because the series has been quite scatterbrained and has been running for 16 years, most of the audience would not have picked up on this.

I think this is the movie's biggest failing: Its lack of self-awareness. Singer and Kinberg are so wrapped up in their own version of the X-Men without being aware that a lot of people are tired of it. So you get a pretty satisfying payoff to the Jean-Xavier relationship which nobody really knows or care about (because the series has been running for so long and the Xavier and Jean stuff was wrapped up in the shitty X3 which nobody would bother remembering). You get jokes about 'the third one is always the worst'. You get black costumes, you get Mystique being Katniss despite the internet outcry.

Singer and Kinberg envisioned this movie as a conclusion to 6 movies, and so made it be full of callbacks and repeat a lot of what came before. Except for a lot of people, DOFP already was the nostalgic closing chapter and audiences were geared up for something new. Frankly, the lack of self-awareness astounds me, especially in an age where creative teams are in direct correspondence with fans on places like Reddit etc (i.e. the Scott Derrickson AMA about Dr. Strange on Reddit).

[Divine Spark]

Agreed, though the deus ex machina feeling could have been avoided if Jean's character arc, and Xavier's relationship to her (since this is still a FC movie), was front and centre. The Phoenix scene can only be appreciated if you take into context Xavier's wider series character arc about having faith in people and not holding them back. Unfortunately, because the series has been quite scatterbrained and has been running for 16 years, most of the audience would not have picked up on this.

I think this is the movie's biggest failing: Its lack of self-awareness. Singer and Kinberg are so wrapped up in their own version of the X-Men without being aware that a lot of people are tired of it. So you get a pretty satisfying payoff to the Jean-Xavier relationship which nobody really knows or care about (because the series has been running for so long and the Xavier and Jean stuff was wrapped up in the shitty X3 which nobody would bother remembering). You get jokes about 'the third one is always the worst'. You get black costumes, you get Mystique being Katniss despite the internet outcry.

Singer and Kinberg envisioned this movie as a conclusion to 6 movies, and so made it be full of callbacks and repeat a lot of what came before. Except for a lot of people, DOFP already was the nostalgic closing chapter and audiences were geared up for something new. Frankly, the lack of self-awareness astounds me, especially in an age where creative teams are in direct correspondence with fans on places like Reddit etc (i.e. the Scott Derrickson AMA about Dr. Strange on Reddit).

Doesn't that remind you of the Matthew Malloy situation?

[SpiderClops]

Doesn't that remind you of the Matthew Malloy situation?

How?

10char.

[somacula]

Hey guys, in X3 why didn't Charles tried to attack DP Jean from cerebro and 100 thousand miles away from her?

[Divine Spark]

How?

10char.

Here are the parallels:

-Xavier finds a powerful mutant child and suppresses his powers via psychic blocks. Because he couldn't control his deadly power.
-The mutant grows into adulthood and that power resurfaces killing loved ones and many other people.
-Xavier in the past learns of this and does something about it.

The difference is of course that comic Xavier just doesn't have faith in Matt and stops him from being born. Which of course is the complete opposite what the movie version of Xavier does with Jean.

Hey guys, in X3 why didn't Charles tried to attack DP Jean from cerebro and 100 thousand miles away from her?

Stryker took Cerebro in X2 to help built his own, IIRC.

[iacobusleo]

Here are the parallels:

-Xavier finds a powerful mutant child and suppresses his powers via psychic blocks. Because he couldn't control his deadly power.
-The mutant grows into adulthood and that power resurfaces killing loved ones and many other people.
-Xavier in the past learns of this and does something about it.

The difference is of course that comic Xavier just doesn't have faith in Matt and stops him from being born. Which of course is the complete opposite what the movie version of Xavier does with Jean.

Interesting! I was only vaguely aware of the Matthew Malloy story so I didn't draw the connection. That whole storyline was slightly after the DOFP movie though (or, Bendis may have worked on it the same time as the movie's production). I still say the bulk of Xavier's growth occurred in DOFP. Apocalypse only made it more explicit by tying it to Jean. I doubt Singer and Kinberg actually read this specific arc, but sometimes there will be parallels between different writers when dealing with the same character.

And the movie version of the resolution is much better. The comic version just ends with Xavier being a control freak even ten times more.

[Divine Spark]

Interesting! I was only vaguely aware of the Matthew Malloy story so I didn't draw the connection. That whole storyline was slightly after the DOFP movie though (or, Bendis may have worked on it the same time as the movie's production). I still say the bulk of Xavier's growth occurred in DOFP. Apocalypse only made it more explicit by tying it to Jean. I doubt Singer and Kinberg actually read this specific arc, but sometimes there will be parallels between different writers when dealing with the same character.

And the movie version of the resolution is much better. The comic version just ends with Xavier being a control freak even ten times more.

Oh, I think Bendis was taking inspiration from X3. I just view it as an interesting coincidence.

[Divine Spark]

Singer and Kinberg have been watching Wolverine and The X-Men.

[Jackraow21]

I do hope we see some of the cosmic, almost mythological elements of Apocalypse and the Phoenix force played with in upcoming X-films. Even if it's mostly just lip service being paid to them.

It would be out of place in a movie like Deadpool 2 or even New Mutants IMO, but perhaps not X-Force depending on who the villains of that film are. If they use Clan Akkaba and run with the Uncanny X-Force Vol. 1 plot of them trying to clone and bring back En Sabah Nur that could work quite nicely. Throw in Essex Corp and Sinister in some behind the scenes capacity (i.e., the cloning technology), and perhaps Stryfe and the MLF as the film's primary villains who are working for Clan Akkaba collecting artifacts they need (kind of combining the Cable 'Blood & Metal' story with him trying to track down Apocalypse via artifacts with UXF Vol. 1).

That could be cool if done right IMO.

[Divine Spark]

I do hope we see some of the cosmic, almost mythological elements of Apocalypse and the Phoenix force played with in upcoming X-films. Even if it's mostly just lip service being paid to them.

It would be out of place in a movie like Deadpool 2 or even New Mutants IMO, but perhaps not X-Force depending on who the villains of that film are. If they use Clan Akkaba and run with the Uncanny X-Force Vol. 1 plot of them trying to clone and bring back En Sabah Nur that could work quite nicely. Throw in Essex Corp and Sinister in some behind the scenes capacity (i.e., the cloning technology), and perhaps Stryfe and the MLF as the film's primary villains who are working for Clan Akkaba collecting artifacts they need (kind of combining the Cable 'Blood & Metal' story with him trying to track down Apocalypse via artifacts with UXF Vol. 1).

That could be cool if done right IMO.

It seems that they set-up the Clan Akkaba in this film with that cult early in the film. The cult was even rocking tattoo symbol like the Akkaba.

I'm think they are planning to use the clan to supplant the Hellfire Club.