Proof that it isn't just the X-books getting jobbed.

[Kirby Krackle]

Two are solos based around Wolverine characters and Deadpool will more than likely be used to prop MCU characters. The O5 will be taking up space that could be better used for an X-Factor. By my count we have two X-Books coming, well those are the only ones I'm buying anyway.

They are still X-Titles from the X-Office. You can split hairs and make this as compleX all you want, but they ARE X-Books.

[THANOSRULES]

I don't think that was the problem at all. I think the main issue is that the New Warriors as a brand and a name hold little to no weight with comic fans anymore. You use the original roster and you'll have the shrinking fanbase supporting it... and? What it comes down to is having the right premise and creative team. Any character or team book can sell with those things in mind. Nostalgia for an old C-List book won't magically make it sell.

I think a tweaked roster could feasibly work..but basically everything has to happen together. All I can say with respect to the nostalgia factor is it could be a strong aspect therin..but not alone. I'd guess for New Warriors the only combo that has ever worked for sales was the roster circa vol. 1 1-25 or so.

I think every now and then you have to get back to some roots...Avengers do it, so do Defenders, etc.. but really i think that first roster and plus or minus a few other faces like Darkhawk, Rage and Sil is a good point to jump on...IE it might be time to just give it a shot. But nothing will work unless marvel really sells it in a lot of other ways too.

Fabnic's back in the fold. Bagely's been on a bit of slump for awhile...just sayin..

[dvgravity]

The most recent run wasn't a great story. I've always like the team so I stuck with it, but the revamped roster could have been better. I know they were playing off Sam Alexander Nova to bring in readers, but that may have also deterred readers as well. The previous incarnation with former, depowered X-Men was a fun run, but I have to agree that I want more of the original team. Justice, Rage, Silhoutte, and Speedball are all feasible, I would like to see Darkhawk return. If it's not Richard Rider, then I don't want Nova. Bring in some fresh faces. I did like the inclusion of Scarlet Spider (Kaine) maybe add some former Iniative members or the Avengers Arena survivors. It's not going to be a top selling book without a strong team working on it putting out consistently good stories. I think Peter David or Dennis Hopeless could have a good run with the title, maybe even Jason Aaron or Al Ewing, but Marvel would also have to push it, which they never really do.

[Lutecius]

Two are solos based around Wolverine characters and Deadpool will more than likely be used to prop MCU characters. The O5 will be taking up space that could be better used for an X-Factor. By my count we have two X-Books coming, well those are the only ones I'm buying anyway.

Same here. Even if we count these other books, that's still very little for such a rich franchise, especially compared to the number of Avengers (or even Spider) titles. I don't see how anyone can deny the X-men side got the shaft at this point.

As for the New Warriors, as others said, the book just didn't sell.

[Darth Kal-el]

The Avenger books lined up have a variety of teams and characters

The X-Men books are smaller in scope and variety despite having the richest and largest pool of characters. Why not a X-Force or New X-Men book with younger non O5 characters or at least mix the O5 with other young X-Men in all new

[SuperiorIronman]

I only read the last New Warriors series because Scarlet Spider was in it. That is literally the only reason why I continued getting the book and I'll be completely honest, it sucked. I supported it only to show Kaine still has fans who certainly want to see that thing with Mexico resolved. Seriously at least a miniseries resolving that plot point. Mary Sue Silk get a relaunch and still no follow up to whatever she was supposed to be important about with spiderverse but a glaring plot point from a loved cancelled to early book doesn't get a mini WTF?

In all fairness New Warriors wasn't the best book out there.

[MajorHoy]

. . . I supported it only to show Kaine still has fans who certainly want to see that thing with Mexico resolved. Seriously at least a miniseries resolving that plot point. Mary Sue Silk get a relaunch and still no follow up to whatever she was supposed to be important about with spiderverse but a glaring plot point from a loved cancelled to early book doesn't get a mini WTF?

But, how was it selling when it got cancelled? How "loved" was it? (Personally, I have no idea.)

[MyriVerse]

Even back in the 90s, New Warriors wasn't a great seller. It became one of the first team books to be cancelled after the boom burst. It seems like it was only ever successful because of the 90s boom.

Dude we have 6 upcoming x-books. They are not getting jobbed

Well, relatively... 6 books is low for the X Brand.

[The Fury]

Well, relatively... 6 books is low for the X Brand.

Indeed. 2 are Wolverine at that. Considering at one point there was Uncanny, X-men, X-men Legacy, All New, Wolverine and the X-men, X-factor, Uncanny X-force, Cable and X-force, Wolverine, Astonishing and the little lived X-treme X-men, plus limited serie around the time, I'd say 6 is a kinda low. (2013).



On subject, it's a shame New Warriors don't get a chance, I read some of Volume 4 but i think their time to shine has passed, like Darkhawk and Adam Warlock. The young heroes thing went to Avengers Academy and Young... in other words books with the 'Avengers brand. Not sure why they rank so high if they don't warrant them enough to have a book mind you.

[Dog]

The thread title is proof comic fans don't understand what "jobbing" means.

[Expletive Deleted]

As much as I loved the original series, I think the failure of the various revivals (some good, some bad, some indifferent) over the years have been telling. The New Warriors are no longer viable. Existing fans don't want new characters and they don't want to bring the old characters back to square one after all their development over the years; new fans don't have the carryover affection for those early years to attract them to the title.

The first two or three years of the '90s New Warriors were lightning in a bottle. The right creative team with the right approach at the right time. I liked the most recent series, but it's time to let it die.

The thread title is proof comic fans don't understand what "jobbing" means.

Also, what he said.

[PhantomStranger]

I only read the last New Warriors series because Scarlet Spider was in it. That is literally the only reason why I continued getting the book and I'll be completely honest, it sucked. I supported it only to show Kaine still has fans who certainly want to see that thing with Mexico resolved. Seriously at least a miniseries resolving that plot point. Mary Sue Silk get a relaunch and still no follow up to whatever she was supposed to be important about with spiderverse but a glaring plot point from a loved cancelled to early book doesn't get a mini WTF?

In all fairness New Warriors wasn't the best book out there.

Still ranked higher than several "more important" books. (5 out of 10) It was therefore popular with the fans.

Marvel says it wants to grow a fanbase. Well you can't grow a fanbase without expanding your offerings to the fanbase. Marvel needs a much stronger B-roster. Not everything is Avengers (or, if you count their half-hearted "AvengX" books, Avengers/X-Men) related, nor should it be.

[PhantomStranger]

The thread title is proof comic fans don't understand what "jobbing" means.

"Jobbing" is when a particular character (or in this case team) is deliberately sacrificed to improve the standing or image of another. It's origin is in the professional wrestling industry, where the person scheduled to lose the match is said to be "doing the job".

It becomes pejorative when a significant character who is otherwise written as being successful and powerful finds themselves being written as losing out to a "bigger" or more popular character, or the needs of the narrative.

The Warriors by the end of their freshman run had gone from a young, admittedly rough around the edges team to a powerful and experienced group of heros. Yet by the time of the "reality show" volume they were again written as a bunch of wet-behind the ears newbies, a through-line that culminated in Stamford, where even Nita was being written as a "loose cannon" and hothead (which is a complete regression of the character).

Stamford was a classic case of jobbing in the pejorative sense, and the continuing lack of push and development for the team and it's characters in favor of more AvengX is a clear cut case of jobbing in the meta-textual sense.

[Conway]

I don't think that was the problem at all. I think the main issue is that the New Warriors as a brand and a name hold little to no weight with comic fans anymore. You use the original roster and you'll have the shrinking fanbase supporting it... and? What it comes down to is having the right premise and creative team. Any character or team book can sell with those things in mind. Nostalgia for an old C-List book won't magically make it sell.

It's also a problem of Marvel wanting it to work too though. Also at the bottom of that list was The Invaders. A team that had the advantage of Captain America, The Winter Soldier (at a time when fans were asking for more Bucky), Namor (when he was the key figure in their flagship books), and The Human Torch (the return of the first character featured in a Marvel book). It quickly became evident that Marvel wasn't really trying to make the title important though. Cap was removed from the line-up, nobody else used Jim Hammond as an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., Namor kept mentioning he had more important stuff to do when he did bother to show up. Bucky was still a fugitive like Punisher preventing any real interactions.

When there are so many books that are important to the future of the MU it makes it hard for the fans to invest in one that is clearly unimportant. With the Avengers changing the multi-verse, the X-Men destroying themselves, the promotion of the Inhumans, the retirement of Steve Rogers, the end of the Fantastic Four, and the forcing of the Guardians into every corner of the MU there hasn't been much effort put into making quality products that aren't part of the the future goals of the company.

[Pav]

The New Warriors as a brand, as an intellectual property, whatever, needs to be tinkered with a bit to find its footing again. Being popular twenty years ago doesn't matter that much if nothing about the concept is relevant now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think success could be found by bridging the concepts of the New Warriors and the Avengers: Initiative together.

At least, that's what I would do.

-Pav, who (to be fair) would much rather have Slingers back though...