Superman/Wonder Woman #20 - Preview

[Tayswift]

Well, for one, Cap hasn't been an actual soldier in a long time (unless that changed in recent years, I'm not really up to speed with his status quo), so he can actually tell the government to stuff it without facing repercution if he disagrees.
So far, DC seems to have tried to sell him as some kind of Nick Fury like figure, which from my limited perspective, didn't seem to have worked out all that well.

Steve trevor also isn't an actual soldier. Sure sell steve trevor as nick fury won't work, DC even read Marvel to know what happened with Nick fury? and Maria Hill and Coulson are the most populars? DC is really dumn=b and they took him from WW and WW from him.

*****
yes, this is OOC for trevor.

[Rakzo]

I quite enjoyed this issue.

Sure, Tomasi can be pretty heavy-handed as usual (especially when he talks about "The Truth") but the character work is pretty good for everyone who appeared here.

[Auguste Dupin]

Steve trevor also isn't an actual soldier. Sure sell steve trevor as nick fury won't work, DC even read Marvel to know what happened with Nick fury? and Maria Hill and Coulson are the most populars? DC is really dumn=b and they took him from WW and WW from him.

*****
yes, this is OOC for trevor.

Maria Hill? Seriously? The one that tried to arrest Cap because he refused to uphold a law that hadn't even be voted yet?
Damn, time sure has changed. When I was reading enough Marvel to care about who the members of SHIELD were, she was pretty much hated by every one for being obstructive bureaucracy incarnate.
And yeah, Trevor is a soldier. That's why he's COLONEL Steve Trevor (which is his actual grade, unlike Captain America, which is just is superhero name). Unless you mean he's a secret agent, in which case, sorry to break it to you, but he still has to obey orders.
The guy didn't do jack sh.t, anyway.

[Tayswift]

Maria Hill? Seriously? The one that tried to arrest Cap because he refused to uphold a law that hadn't even be voted yet?
Damn, time sure has changed. When I was reading enough Marvel to care about who the members of SHIELD were, she was pretty much hated by every one for being obstructive bureaucracy incarnate.
And yeah, Trevor is a soldier. That's why he's COLONEL Steve Trevor (which is his actual grade, unlike Captain America, which is just is superhero name). Unless you mean he's a secret agent, in which case, sorry to break it to you, but he still has to obey orders.
The guy didn't do jack sh.t, anyway.

Marial Hill was on multiple books, best one secret avengers that was one of the best comics from the last years. Hill is on avengers movies, interpreted by Robin, so she gained lots of popularity. same for Coulson. meanwhile old nick fury got a sad fate on original sin

no, trevor is a special agent with autonomy. if captain america, Ms. Marvel aren't soldiers why would steve trevor be? lol
have military ranking doesn't make him a simple soldier that follow orders or even make him a soldier, unless a writer want it like Tomasi did. completely different from what johns is doing on JL
this thing of being a "yes man" doesn't exist anymore, it is called poor writing and in this case jobbing.

[Auguste Dupin]

[QUOTE]

Marial Hill was on multiple books, best one secret avengers that was one of the best comics from the last years. Hill is on avengers movies, interpreted by Robin, so she gained lots of popularity. same for Coulson. meanwhile old nick fury got a sad fate on original sin

There's a "new one" though if I remember correctly.

no, trevor is a special agent with autonomy. if captain america, Ms. Marvel aren't soldiers why would steve trevor be? lol
have military ranking doesn't make him a simple soldier that follow orders or even make him a soldier, unless a writer want it like Tomasi did. completely different from what johns is doing on JL
this thing of being a "yes man" doesn't exist anymore, it is called poor writing and in this case jobbing.

Because he's part of the secret services and they're not? Unless you really think that Cap's full name is Steve America. "lol".
And, huh, yes, having a military ranking makes you part of the military. That's, like, the whole point of having one. He's a part of ARGUS, which is an american secret agency dedicated to dealing with metahuman threats. Which means that he answers to the american governement, and notably the President of the United States. The fact he's a Colonel means he's fairly high on the hierarchy, but he still has to answers to his superiors, and face their judgement if he disobey them. Autonomy does not mean impunity.
Also, for your information, the actual definition of jobbing is "making a character lose a fight to show how strong his opponent is". It's a term used exclusively when it comes to fighting.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Jobber

[Last Son of Krypton]

One of the best SM/WW issue written by Tomasi if not the best. I actually prefer Tomasi's Truth to Yang's. Diana's characterization has improved considerably since the writer no longer follows the pre "Amazo Virus" Johns's depiction of WW.

[DochaDocha]

If we want to be pedantic, we should say Steve is an officer, not a soldier. Just be glad we didn't confuse a soldier with a marine...

[Tayswift]

[QUOTE=Auguste Dupin;1430301]

There's a "new one" though if I remember correctly.

Nick Fury jr, nick fury senior son.

Because he's part of the secret services and they're not? Unless you really think that Cap's full name is Steve America. "lol".
And, huh, yes, having a military ranking makes you part of the military. That's, like, the whole point of having one. He's a part of ARGUS, which is an american secret agency dedicated to dealing with metahuman threats. Which means that he answers to the american governement, and notably the President of the United States. The fact he's a Colonel means he's fairly high on the hierarchy, but he still has to answers to his superiors, and face their judgement if he disobey them. Autonomy does not mean impunity.
Also, for your information, the actual definition of jobbing is "making a character lose a fight to show how strong his opponent is". It's a term used exclusively when it comes to fighting.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Jobber

on marvel movies captain america is part of shield, and on comics when time ran out he was working with shield to take down iluminatti
police officers are ranked lieutenant, captain, sargeant and they aren't soldiers. ranking doesn't make steve a militar, argus is more a spy organization than anything military. On Grayson argus is a organization that crosses path with spyral that is a spy agency.
Trevor is much more a special intelligence officer than anything military. you might be right steve answer for USA president, but he is not his or argus pet. He has cojones to do his own thing. He can walk away, it's not like he doesn't has JL and if DC gods permit wonder woman to back
I use the term jobbing because I think it fits the thing, even if not a fight.

[Auguste Dupin]

on marvel movies captain america is part of shield, and on comics when time ran out he was working with shield to take down iluminatti
police officers are ranked lieutenant, captain, sargeant and they aren't soldiers. ranking doesn't make steve a militar, argus is more a spy organization than anything military. On Grayson argus is a organization that crosses path with spyral that is a spy agency.
Trevor is much more a special intelligence officer than anything military. you might be right steve answer for USA president, but he is not his or argus pet. He has cojones to do his own thing. He can walk away, it's not like he doesn't has JL and if DC gods permit wonder woman to back
I use the term jobbing because I think it fits the thing, even if not a fight.

Yeah, emphasis on working WITH the SHIELD, not FOR the SHIELD. There's a basic difference, one that explain while Cap can tell them to f.ck off in relative impunity....sometimes. Meanwhile, Trevor works FOR ARGUS.
You know as well as I do that Trevor got his rank from the fact he was an Air Force officer. Also ARGUS, unlike Spyral, is an official organisation, not a secret one recruiting left for dead sidekicks.
On Grayson, two things:
1) He still has to answer to his hierarchy (Agent 0 in his case), that was one of the stakes of the first season.
2) Grayson doesn't have a military rank.
Now, sure, Trevor isn't ARGUS' pet , he will say so if he disagree with something, but if, say, the President gives him a direct order to do something, there's only so much protesting he can do before it's considered disobedience, in some cases treason. Some secret agents do it (case in point, Ethan Hunt in the last MI movie....and most of them, really), but it has nasty consequences, like being hunted by your own organisation (case in point, Ethan Hunt in the last MI movie....and most of them, really). That goes with being a spy (hell, it's probably worse for spies, because their whole deal is secrecy).
Finally, no, really, jobbing is just for fights, when someone is mischaracterized to make someone else look morally right, it's another term.

[Sacred Knight]

Well, Diana did seem to team up with someone. Although I have no idea who that person is in the final panel.

I figured that was just a generic agent/scientist/whatever, cataloguing the results of the interviews.

[Tayswift]

Yeah, emphasis on working WITH the SHIELD, not FOR the SHIELD. There's a basic difference, one that explain while Cap can tell them to f.ck off in relative impunity....sometimes. Meanwhile, Trevor works FOR ARGUS.
You know as well as I do that Trevor got his rank from the fact he was an Air Force officer. Also ARGUS, unlike Spyral, is an official organisation, not a secret one recruiting left for dead sidekicks.
On Grayson, two things:
1) He still has to answer to his hierarchy (Agent 0 in his case), that was one of the stakes of the first season.
2) Grayson doesn't have a military rank.
Now, sure, Trevor isn't ARGUS' pet , he will say so if he disagree with something, but if, say, the President gives him a direct order to do something, there's only so much protesting he can do before it's considered disobedience, in some cases treason. Some secret agents do it (case in point, Ethan Hunt in the last MI movie....and most of them, really), but it has nasty consequences, like being hunted by your own organisation (case in point, Ethan Hunt in the last MI movie....and most of them, really). That goes with being a spy (hell, it's probably worse for spies, because their whole deal is secrecy).
Finally, no, really, jobbing is just for fights, when someone is mischaracterized to make someone else look morally right, it's another term.

on the movies captain america is a shield agent, there is even a sharon carter watching over him. he is part of government and he was against Fury plan and that made people praise him. a character that only follow orders is boring and doesn't make it any interesting follow him. winter soldier made me love captain america character a lot.
now here I can't really get into trevor, he could be any government's pet. it just don't fit the character

he was from air force, he has military background and still get the ranking, doesn't mean he still a soldier.
1. grayson answer for the authority (bertinelli), last issues he desobeyed orders to give kryptonite to luthor
2. irrelevant, police officer have military rank and ren't military.

it is more interesting than trevor being a pet for the government, anyway he has or should have WW to back him to whatever consequences

[Auguste Dupin]

on the movies captain america is a shield agent, there is even a sharon carter watching over him. he is part of government and he was against Fury plan and that made people praise him. a character that only follow orders is boring and doesn't make it any interesting follow him. winter soldier made me love captain america character a lot.

We're talking about the movie where the entire SHIELD was revealed to be created by ex nazis, causing the entire organisation to be disbanded, right?
Preeetty sure that helps with the whole "disobeying orders" part.

now here I can't really get into trevor, he could be any government's pet. it just don't fit the character

What character? The guy who has been leading his own Justice League working for the governement and designed specifically to take down the other league "if needed be"? That's the guy you think is out of character for trying to lecture Superman?

he was from air force, he has military background and still get the ranking, doesn't mean he still a soldier.

He's secret services. Too bad it really doesn't change a thing about how he has to obey orders and stuff.

1. grayson answer for the authority (bertinelli), last issues he desobeyed orders to give kryptonite to luthor

Grayson is also a double agent working for Batman who was already hunted down by some peple of his own organisation when he made that choice, and who would desert in a heartbeat if his mentor would answer the phone. Not the same position as Trevor at all.

2. irrelevant, police officer have military rank and ren't military.

And yet, they must follow orders too. The rank isn't here to look cool, you know. it's to determine who you answer to.

it is more interesting than trevor being a pet for the government, anyway he has or should have WW to back him to whatever consequences

Not sure what Diana can do against him losing his job, but okay.

[Sacred Knight]

Steve trevor also isn't an actual soldier. Sure sell steve trevor as nick fury won't work, DC even read Marvel to know what happened with Nick fury? and Maria Hill and Coulson are the most populars? DC is really dumn=b and they took him from WW and WW from him.

*****
yes, this is OOC for trevor.

You seem to know as little about the Wonder Woman mythos as you do the Superman mythos. Steve Trevor was taken away from Wonder Woman 24 years ago. That they're not romantically linked is nothing new and never a great loss for WW. If anything the current DC Comics did Steve a favor by trying to bring him back after the reboot to some level of prominence for a few years. Its not their fault if his reintroduction didn't set the comics world on fire.

And "OOC" does not mean "the character I like more isn't portrayed as cool as the one I don't like". What is with this insatiable need to put Steve Trevor on par with Superman as a character? It never has happened and never will happen. Superman is a starring character, Steve is a supporting character. Not even an A-list supporting character at that. Is it just some sense of payback to "be fair" to the character since they put Wonder Woman with Superman? If so that's a lame reasoning. Superman's always going to look better than Steve. Any starring superhero is going to look better than Steve because they're stars and he's not.

[brettc1]

You seem to know as little about the Wonder Woman mythos as you do the Superman mythos. Steve Trevor was taken away from Wonder Woman 24 years ago. That they're not romantically linked is nothing new and never a great loss for WW. If anything the current DC Comics did Steve a favor by trying to bring him back after the reboot to some level of prominence for a few years. Its not their fault if his reintroduction didn't set the comics world on fire.

And "OOC" does not mean "the character I like more isn't portrayed as cool as the one I don't like". What is with this insatiable need to put Steve Trevor on par with Superman as a character? It never has happened and never will happen. Superman is a starring character, Steve is a supporting character. Not even an A-list supporting character at that. Is it just some sense of payback to "be fair" to the character since they put Wonder Woman with Superman? If so that's a lame reasoning. Superman's always going to look better than Steve. Any starring superhero is going to look better than Steve because they're stars and he's not.

Yoda isn't the star of the movie, but he is pretty damn awesome

You don't see Steve as a star, but that don't make it so. I know guys who don't think of Superman as a star no matter how many books he is in. Or Wonder Woman for that matter. Star is just another word for favorite.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Yoda's a star, widely recognized fan favorite, people quote Yoda. I bet I could quote Lyle Wagonner but not Steve Trevor.