1872 #2 - Thoughts and Spoilers

[Tien Long]

Hi all. Just thought I'd be the one to write this month's thoughts and spoilers on 1872. Overall, it was a very good issue and I enjoyed it a lot. The mix of Marvel characters and Old West storytelling was pretty good. Needless to say, there was a HUGE event that occurred in the story, which definitely changes things from here on out. Needless to say, the series would not be a good Western if there wasn't a little bit of tragedy.

In any case, on to my deeper thoughts. Be warned, there be spoilers ahead!:











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- What I really dug about this story was the characterization. Indeed, I think we mentioned in the previous 1872 thread that though the characters of Timely didn't possess the superhero powers of their 616 counterparts, they did share a fair number of their characteristics. Indeed, readers got to see that with this issue. Stark isn't flying around in his Iron Man armor (at least not yet), but he's an ingenious weapons maker who turns to the bottle after seeing his tech used to commit horrible atrocities (love the way that the Civil War was used for this.) Steve may not have his super-soldier serum or indestructible shield, but he's still willing put up a good fight and deliver a rousing speech on how freedom and democracy can take down tyranny. The speech he gave in the middle of Timely reminded me of that time he stood up to Thanos back during the Infinity Gauntlet.

At the same time, much like the Infinity Gauntlet, Steve's words ultimately couldn't save him from his fate. Yep, seeing Steve shot through the chest by Bullseye was pretty awful. Fisk tossing Steve's carcass to a bunch of hungry pigs made the sheriff's end all the more ignominious. I must admit, I had an inkling that Steve would die, but wasn't too sure. This tension really made the scene exciting.

Still, Steve's death wasn't totally in vain. One can see that the people of Timely have been inspired, Stark most prominently. I can't wait to see what steampunk inspired armor Stark will invent. Moreover, Steve got a couple of solid hits back in during that fight. I both winced and cheered seeing him shoot a bullet right through Otto's head!

- I do like this rendition of Natasha. In the beginning of the story, she seems willing to accept the lies of Barnes' death and not fight back, but then helps Red Wolf escape capture. That's pretty interesting.

- Nice to see the other characters of Timely, like Banner, Nelson, and Misty Knight. There were some other women depicted in the series, but I couldn't place who they were based on. Perhaps they were totally new?

- Was the artist different this time around? Wasn't there supposed to be a change with artists in this series? I ask because there were some scenes were the art was a little iffy, mainly the scenes involving Elektra and Red Wolf.

In any case, these were the moments that I liked in this issue. I'm sure I missed a lot of things, so feel free to talk amongst yourselves. How did you guys feel about this story?

[scribbleMind]

Best depiction of Steve Rogers in a while, and absolutely not what I expected to happen, but the events it lead to felt so right. I want to go Red Dragon and eat this book so that I may become one with it.

[Anubhavkumarc]

Stark's gonna take revenge soon!

[dragonfly]

Steve was NOT a "carcass" then. He groaned when Kingpin lifted him up. He has been eaten by the animals ALIVE.
That's horrible.

[Omega Alpha]

Steve was NOT a "carcass" then. He groaned when Kingpin lifted him up. He has been eaten by the animals ALIVE.
That's horrible.

Yep, that's some Deadwood style atrocity right there.

[Skute]

Who do you think that was with Stark towards the end? I was thinking the Odinson but the color scheme doesn't really match. Any other guesses?

[Ragdoll]

Simply brutal. Can everyone agree that this is the best Secret Wars tie in book? It is the most intense one they have, yet has no superpowers or sci-fi/fantasy elements, just a bad ass western. I teared up a little at the end. And then I wind up at http://gerryduggan.com/ after googling the writers name and find him taking pleasure in the tears of his fans lol

[Haquim]

Simply brutal. Can everyone agree that this is the best Secret Wars tie in book? It is the most intense one they have, yet has no superpowers or sci-fi/fantasy elements, just a bad ass western. I teared up a little at the end. And then I wind up at http://gerryduggan.com/ after googling the writers name and find him taking pleasure in the tears of his fans lol

While I also enjoyed other tie ins (like Master of Kung Fu), this one is certainly one of the best, yes.

spoilers:

I honestly wasn't expecting Rogers to die. Nor I was expecting his undignified end at the hands of Fisk. This was brutal but it gave credibility to the tale. Rogers kills Octavius, gets Bullseye on his knees and disables Grizzly. All seems going well, he gives the scared crowd an inspiring speech but gets distracted while doing so. This gives Bullseye the chance he needs to shoot him in the back. He falls on the ground, mortally wounded and all is suddenly lost. To add insult to injury, Fisk throws his agonizing body inside a pigsty where the pigs start devouring the valiant captain. This is a Song of Ice and Fire like situation where the recompense for honor is betrayal and death and the bad guys seem to win because they are ruthless and honorless. Of course we know thee will be a reckoning, and it will be all the sweeter after witnessing this

end of spoilers

[tsaimelemoni]

Simply brutal. Can everyone agree that this is the best Secret Wars tie in book? It is the most intense one they have, yet has no superpowers or sci-fi/fantasy elements, just a bad ass western. I teared up a little at the end. And then I wind up at http://gerryduggan.com/ after googling the writers name and find him taking pleasure in the tears of his fans lol

So far I think Civil War and Master of Kung Fu are better, but this still a good series.

Was not expecting Rogers to go down quite so early or brutally!

[jackolover]

Why do you think the women stopped Stark continuing to shoot at Bullseye? That seemed totally out of character for women to intervene in men's shootouts.

[jackolover]

Who do you think that was with Stark towards the end? I was thinking the Odinson but the color scheme doesn't really match. Any other guesses?

He was in bare feet, so it could have been another Indian?

[jackolover]

While I also enjoyed other tie ins (like Master of Kung Fu), this one is certainly one of the best, yes.

spoilers:

I honestly wasn't expecting Rogers to die. Nor I was expecting his undignified end at the hands of Fisk. This was brutal but it gave credibility to the tale. Rogers kills Octavius, gets Bullseye on his knees and disables Grizzly. All seems going well, he gives the scared crowd an inspiring speech but gets distracted while doing so. This gives Bullseye the chance he needs to shoot him in the back. He falls on the ground, mortally wounded and all is suddenly lost. To add insult to injury, Fisk throws his agonizing body inside a pigsty where the pigs start devouring the valiant captain. This is a Song of Ice and Fire like situation where the recompense for honor is betrayal and death and the bad guys seem to win because they are ruthless and honorless. Of course we know thee will be a reckoning, and it will be all the sweeter after witnessing this

end of spoilers

I just wonder how this reconning is coming about. I saw a Hulk hand in the poster in Banners window, and Stark could be working on a project inspired by Steves death. Is this an Avengers story? Are we going to get the big 3 being formed here, destroying the Fisk/Roxxon stronghold and freeing the West from tyranny? I still hope Red Wolf dragging Rodgers from the pigpen and attending his wounds, and in 6 weeks time, Steve, Tony and Banner become the Avenging Riders.

Otherwise, this series is one big tragedy. It's hard to see 1872 turn into a happy ending, but Master of Kung Fu defied the odds and was a happy ending. These are the characters with stories that defy death, and overcome incredible adversity, to be forged into legend, so how can the Beyonders destroy these heroes with stories like Battleworld?

[jackolover]

This really is a Wild West outcome. Truth confronts power and power wins out. The Sherrif is dead and the Indian runs off, and nobody does anything to stop it. The Marvel Westerns of the silver Age were also very brutal, very much like the infant Super Hero Era saw many tragic deaths that sparked the heroic acts that saw the Super heroes emerge, but in the dusty streets of mid-western, struggling, communities. This is the kind of premoidal adventure that makes super heroes, in the fight of justice against corruption; in the stumbling defeat faced by many, they find heart for the fight to go on.

Spoilers

Steve is taking Red Wolf to the court, but Governor Roxxons assassins are already with Fisk and Judge Nelson, convincing them to kill Rodgers. Rodgers sees Nelson leave town and stops him but Nelson says Red Wolf was tried in absentia and sentenced to hang, and rides off. Then Bullseye and his gang spread out and ambush Rodgers and Red Wolf. Rodgers is shot in the back, and fed to the pigs by Fisk. Bucky's widow hides Red Wolf in her room. A stranger walks close to Stark and loads a Fortune telling booth with a coin. Vision appears and tells the stranger to take his fortune, but he tells Stark it's his ticket, and Stark reads it as the stranger leaves. Stark goes back to his workshop and starts building. Ben Urich continues his paper, the truth.

Not many westerns in real life were happy endings and this one shows Timely is one such place. Steves badge lies on the street to remind everyone not to cause dissent, and Fisk is big man in town again. Timely is isolated, tragic and desperate, and all the honesty has been killed. It is out of this situation that the next chapter of this story goes forward.

[Andy]

I still have a bit of hope Steve isn't dead. The fact that there isn't any real Captain America around these day is one of the driving forces of why i read this book.

Still, a good issue all the same. Steve shooting Octavius was crazy, and the Civil War scene was very, very well done and may even incite some ridiculous controversy with the overly PC crowd who won't like seeing a hero take up for the South in a time where a segment of the population is trying to compare it to hitler's Germany, even in the very appropriate manner Tony did.

[ian0delond]

Steve's death was horrifying. That last moaning when Fisk lift him up. They went really hardcore on that one.
After that nightmarish murder, heroes are going to raise and there will be a happy ending for sure.

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