LGBT TV Appreciation (and Celebration)

[simbob4000]

Never saw True Blood, I'm afraid (pretty guys in it, but I need more than that to draw me to a show). I was surprised that BOTH Scream Queens and AHS: Hotel had a "de-gaying" plot. Is Ryan Murphy turning into one of those "self haters gays"????

My guess would be that he isn't.

[JediMindTrick]

2003 - First lesbian love scene on network TV, between Willow (Alyson Hannigan) and Kennedy (Iyari Limon) on Buffy the Vampire Slayer

This is completely incorrect.

Willow had a brilliantly explicit without actually showing anything love scene with Tara a season before Kennedy was even on the show. During the musical episode (in season six, Kennedy doesn't appear til season 7) Tara bursts into song and you see she and Willow fall in bed together. As Tara sings you see Willow get a sly look on her face as she disappears somewhere below Tara's waist. Then you see Tara start to gasp as she sings, the lyrics can all be interpreted sexually, especially the one of the lines which is "You make me complete" however Tara is singing it as follows "You make me COME . . . . . . .plete, you make me COME . . . . . . plete. There is absolutely no doubt in this scene that Willow has gone down on Tara.

Here is the scene in question. And really I"m not even sure this was the first Willow / Tara scene, its just the most memorable. There was a scene in season four where they both obviously orgasm during a spell but they aren't actually having sex - Joss Whedon has said at the time the network wouldn't let him show an actual love scene between the two so he implied it in another way. And it was very obvious by the end of season 4 they were sleeping together, just not on screen. By season six they were on a new network and things were much less restrictive (its also the season Buffy and Spike had a very violent but consensual sex scene followed later in the season by Spike trying to rape Buffy so clearly the censors were far less demanding).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m496Fp90vps

I tried googling first lesbian scene on TV and I can see some articles that claim it was the Willow / Kennedy scene from season seven but they are obviously wrong as the clip from season six shows.

[AndrewCrossett]

Cleverly disguised suggestions of a love scene don't count. The point is that the Willow/Kennedy scene was the first time someone got away with a lesbian love scene on network television that couldn't be interpreted as something else to avoid making Mr. and Mrs. Middle-America pop their monocles and clutch their pearls.

[Kieran_Frost]

Cleverly disguised suggestions of a love scene don't count. The point is that the Willow/Kennedy scene was the first time someone got away with a lesbian love scene on network television that couldn't be interpreted as something else to avoid making Mr. and Mrs. Middle-America pop their monocles and clutch their pearls.

That's my guess also; though I will admit I completely forgot that scene from "Once More With Feeling" (and while it is slightly "disguised", I do wonder what people think it could be?). But then again some were apparently "shocked" when Willow came out, having not noticed ANY of the obvious hints. Denial is very strong with some, it seems

[AndrewCrossett]

That's my guess also; though I will admit I completely forgot that scene from "Once More With Feeling" (and while it is slightly "disguised", I do wonder what people think it could be?). But then again some were apparently "shocked" when Willow came out, having not noticed ANY of the obvious hints. Denial is very strong with some, it seems

Hey, there are people who still to this day don't believe that Xena and Gabrielle were a couple.

[Kieran_Frost]

Hey, there are people who still to this day don't believe that Xena and Gabrielle were a couple.

Really???? I thought they kissed in the last ever episode?

[AndrewCrossett]

Really???? I thought they kissed in the last ever episode?

Oh, no, Gabrielle was "just feeding Xena water."

They'd actually kissed a few times before that, though never right on the lips. But the final season was so jam-packed with maintext that you had to be really doggedly trying not to see it, in order to not see it.

[JediMindTrick]

That's my guess also; though I will admit I completely forgot that scene from "Once More With Feeling" (and while it is slightly "disguised", I do wonder what people think it could be?). But then again some were apparently "shocked" when Willow came out, having not noticed ANY of the obvious hints. Denial is very strong with some, it seems

Well other than one scene and one line about alt dimension vamp Willow there were no signs that she was going to come out until she did. She was in a solid relationship with Oz that only ended because Oz cheated on her. She was deeply love with Xander the whole time too. After Oz cheated on her, she rebounded to Tara (regardless of orientation or how well it worked out, it was very obviously a rebound relationship). If Willow had gone through a succession of men and it was her ending the relationships because it just didn't feel right that would be a hint.

But going to a woman because you've been hurt terribly by a man fits into a bad stereotype about lesbians - they are only lesbians because they've come to hate men and thats exactly how it came off with Willow. To me, I always felt that it would have been more honest given her character development to that point if they had just left her as bisexual rather than lesbian but I think they kind of got trapped in having her be only lesbian given how the LGBT crowd embraced her and the writers were worried about backlash if they made her bi and then had her get with a man again. I loved the Willow / Tara relationship more than the Willow / Oz one so I'm not in any way putting it down, it just did feel completely out of nowhere.

[JediMindTrick]

Cleverly disguised suggestions of a love scene don't count. The point is that the Willow/Kennedy scene was the first time someone got away with a lesbian love scene on network television that couldn't be interpreted as something else to avoid making Mr. and Mrs. Middle-America pop their monocles and clutch their pearls.

Except its not even a suggestion. Its as blatant an oral sex scene as you can show on network TV where its always going to be more implication than anything. The fact that Tara is basically orgasming at the end both in lyrics and whats happening makes it even more blatant.

[wonderlad]

Never saw True Blood, I'm afraid (pretty guys in it, but I need more than that to draw me to a show). I was surprised that BOTH Scream Queens and AHS: Hotel had a "de-gaying" plot. Is Ryan Murphy turning into one of those "self haters gays"????

I think you need to give True Blood a shot - it's definitely much more than pretty guys. And it's written by Alan Ball who did great stuff with Six Feet Under. There's alot of underlying satire/social commentary that transcends is apparent schlock nature.
Meanwhile been checking out Lucifer - not really engaging me too much but the lead is hot. In episode 2 he emerges from a MMF threeway in one scene. Let's see if they go there further - though I doubt the Vertigo source material has him as Bi.

[mattbib]

Just finished Scream Queens a couple weeks ago. I've been catching episodes of Jane the Virgin, Superstore, Telenovela, which feature LGBT characters. Other than that I did just start the latest Project Runway Allstars and am awaiting the new RuPaul's Drag Race next month. I'm also looking forward to the Looking special supposedly coming out soon.

[Wiccan]

Yeah, I was kinda WTF with Ryan Murphy too. But I guess Hotel had a decent Bisexual representation, since half the cast hooked up with both genders?lol.

[Silvermoth]

I hope liz Taylor comes back in the next season somehow. Or that we get a trans character as great as her

[Wiccan]

I hope liz Taylor comes back in the next season somehow. Or that we get a trans character as great as her

Liz was epic! But after Queenie, I kinda hope no character comes back for another season, you know...

[Kieran_Frost]

Is this real? Or fan made???

Liz was epic! But after Queenie, I kinda hope no character comes back for another season, you know...

Eh; one episode comeback is better than never appearing again. And Queenie vs. Romana was hilarious/bad ass!