Can I get Nightwing back now please

[berserkerclaw]

I like Dick Grayson, no matter what identity he takes.

[WonderNight]

Ok what is it what from nightwing that you are not getting from grayson?

[Badou]

Well that was the thing with Higgins run, it wasn't bad it just wasn't very good either. It was just middle of the road, with ups and downs. Which is kind of the worst thing for Nightwing because it will sell and leave them with little incentive for it to be anything more. So they'll let it just sit there and spin its wheels.

I wanted to like Higgins run, i really did, more then probably should have, but i just never found Higgins run to be satisfying. Higgins run as a whole had its moments sure, but ultimately it was trying to be something we have already seen before and what the character desperately needed was something we haven't seen before. Nightwing needed to feel new again. They should have been trying to give us a Nightwing 2.0 of sorts.

I think we need to remember what was happening when Higgins was writing Nightwing though. It was the New 52 and Dick's history was completely gutted. No one knew what was or wasn't in continuity anymore. His time as Robin was extremely shortened, his Titans history was gone, no one knew if his Bludhaven stories were still in continuity, if he ever dated Barbara, and despite just coming off being Batman I think it was clear that DC, and maybe Higgins too, didn't want to use anything from that time in order to not confuse readers. So Higgins was very limited in what he could do with the character and was dealt a bad hand from the start. Although he probably could have done things a lot better, but he made some poor direction choices too.

All Higgins knew was that Dick's circus history was still there so he tried to build his run around that, basically try to start from Dick's beginnings, but I think he eventually realized that the circus setting isn't strong enough to build an entire series around. So he used the Death of the Family event to get Dick out of that setting and into something more traditional, but I think by that time the book was sort of too far behind to really start over from complete scratch. That is sort of how I look at it.

Since the 9 page preview, I honestly think that once the Double Dick/Netz stuff is tied up, they'll move Spyral into position to protect superhero identities. Which would position Dick back into being an important piece in the DC universe and give him an opportunity to get his position back as someone with ties to all the heroes as well as being trusted by them. As well as building him a playground that no one else really has atm.

And then he could move between being Nightwing and being Agent 37 (even if all I think the difference between them is sartorial).

I think they will move away from protecting heroes identities. I think it is a story that doesn't work in the DCU when so many of their heroes don't really have to worry about secret identities. After the New 52 there really aren't that many heroes running around anyway. It isn't like at Marvel. Plus the whole concept runs into a wall in that no well known heroes will get their identity exposed in the Grayson book where it would cause significant changes in their own series. The Grayson series doesn't have that kind of reach. They aren't going to expose Flash's identity in the Grayson book where Flash's solo is now changed because of it, you know? So there is no actual threat which causes the story to not work that well. Plus Superman already got his identity exposed and that is one of the few secret identities people care about already gone.

What I think they will need to do is come up with some significant threat where Dick realizes he has to keep doing what he is doing in order to stop that. Like how in Uncanny X-Force they came together with the mission to kill Apocalypse. Then the team went on this crazy adventure to accomplish that. I think a set up like that could probably work longer, but the challenge is coming up with a big enough threat.

[DurararaFTW]

I think we need to remember what was happening when Higgins was writing Nightwing though. It was the New 52 and Dick's history was completely gutted. No one knew what was or wasn't in continuity anymore. His time as Robin was extremely shortened, his Titans history was gone, no one knew if his Bludhaven stories were still in continuity, if he ever dated Barbara, and despite just coming off being Batman I think it was clear that DC, and maybe Higgins too, didn't want to use anything from that time in order to not confuse readers. So Higgins was very limited in what he could do with the character and was dealt a bad hand from the start. Although he probably could have done things a lot better, but he made some poor direction choices too.

All Higgins knew was that Dick's circus history was still there so he tried to build his run around that, basically try to start from Dick's beginnings, but I think he eventually realized that the circus setting isn't strong enough to build an entire series around. So he used the Death of the Family event to get Dick out of that setting and into something more traditional, but I think by that time the book was sort of too far behind to really start over from complete scratch. That is sort of how I look at it.



I think they will move away from protecting heroes identities. I think it is a story that doesn't work in the DCU when so many of their heroes don't really have to worry about secret identities. After the New 52 there really aren't that many heroes running around anyway. It isn't like at Marvel. Plus the whole concept runs into a wall in that no well known heroes will get their identity exposed in the Grayson book where it would cause significant changes in their own series. The Grayson series doesn't have that kind of reach. They aren't going to expose Flash's identity in the Grayson book where Flash's solo is now changed because of it, you know? So there is no actual threat which causes the story to not work that well. Plus Superman already got his identity exposed and that is one of the few secret identities people care about already gone.

What I think they will need to do is come up with some significant threat where Dick realizes he has to keep doing what he is doing in order to stop that. Like how in Uncanny X-Force they came together with the mission to kill Apocalypse. Then the team went on this crazy adventure to accomplish that. I think a set up like that could probably work longer, but the challenge is coming up with a big enough threat.

What about Nightwing's biggest enemy? Higgins was writing both Deathstroke and Nightwing at the time. I gotta believe he could've done more to hint a history between the two of them.

[doctormistermaster]

I like Dick Grayson, no matter what identity he takes.

I completely agree, however I will say that the Nightwing costume is a big selling point for me.

[LoneNecromancer]

What about Nightwing's biggest enemy? Higgins was writing both Deathstroke and Nightwing at the time. I gotta believe he could've done more to hint a history between the two of them.

He originally had some crossover planned that never panned out for the sake of giving Rob Liefeld a job.

[LoneNecromancer]

Bleh, fans can keep this James Bond-wannabe. Some of you guys simply accept anything. I would rather have Nightwing back.

As opposed to the Batman-wannabe?

[joybeans]

What about Nightwing's biggest enemy? Higgins was writing both Deathstroke and Nightwing at the time. I gotta believe he could've done more to hint a history between the two of them.

Higgins himself said he didn't know if those two had a history in the New 52 universe or not. Things were just that poorly managed.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

James Bond does not go up against Zombie-Orca's, God Gardens protected by a sentient A.I., and he kills. Grayson is more covert ops/espionage then ruthless killer/suave spy. What James Bond does is not what spies actually do, it would leave too much of trail plus be extremely expensive. Grayson was NEVER accepted with open arms so I do not see how you say people would accept anything. It was criticized and not given a chance by many. It is the storytelling that has kept Grayson in good graces because if it was not good DC would have brought Nightwing back sooner.

I LOVE Nightwing's Black and Blue suit so they can bring that back anytime but here are some truths about Nightwing:

1) Bludhaven was written as a Poor Man's Gotham for a Poor Man's Batman and biggest impact on the DCU was getting blown up by Deathstroke who never faced any repercussions for killing 100,000+ people.
2) He went from taking on the mantle by his own choice to it being retconned into he got fired.
3) He went from leading a Team of Super powered people who were family to him and had the respect of the JLA/DCU to having absolutely having no real connection to anyone outside the Batfamily.
4) He got Raped by a killer
5) On many occasions his own book was used as a vehicle for other characters.

Grayson and Nightwing are flawed but Grayson does not have as many black marks yet, and has much room to grow and develop so I want too see where they are going with this story. The only thing I really want from this team is to bring back the Black and Blue costume.

[Badou]

Am I the only one that thinks Dick's black and blue costume is overrated? It's basically just a black latex suit with some blue stripes on it. If they go back to the suit then I'd rather see it redesigned.

What about Nightwing's biggest enemy? Higgins was writing both Deathstroke and Nightwing at the time. I gotta believe he could've done more to hint a history between the two of them.

Yeah, I don't think he knew if those two have even met in the New 52, we still don't sort of, but I think he was pulled off the book before he could do anything like a crossover.

[byrd156]

Why don't you tell us a better arc. If I haven't read it already I'd love to read anything better than Grayson.

Nightwing: A Knight in Blüdhaven
Nightwing: Freefall
Nightwing: The Great Leap
Nightwing: Love and Bullets

[Lady Nightwing]

Am I the only one that thinks Dick's black and blue costume is overrated? It's basically just a black latex suit with some blue stripes on it. If they go back to the suit then I'd rather see it redesigned.

The black and blue suit is a classic. It's great because it's so simple. Though some details from the Nu52 suit wouldn't be bad, the Batman style blades on his gauntlets and the stripes on his pelvis. My concern if they redesigned Nightwings suit that they would get carried away by the bird theme eg. Red Robins wings. We could end up with a beak and tail feathers. Also mullets! Think about all the dodgy haircuts he's had over the years.

On a more serious note, it would be hard to reprise the Nightwing identity. He retired it to keep his family safe. If he took it back now or in the near future it would make his time with Spyral seem unnecessary.

[Darkness Fatale]

On a more serious note, it would be hard to reprise the Nightwing identity. He retired it to keep his family safe. If he took it back now or in the near future it would make his time with Spyral seem unnecessary.

Agreed. And as this statement bears repeating: Grayson stays. I'm not so desperate to see him back as Nightwing to the point that I want to limit Dick's appearance under just that particular mask.
I wonder if the fans who protested Dick Grayson's new direction as a Spyral agent after Forever Evil are also the same ones who despised seeing him donning the Batman mantle after Battle for the Cowl.....

[WhipWhirlwind]

I love the nightwing costume and moniker (seriously, nightwing just sounds badass), but I hope Dick Grayson:Agent of SPYRAL is here to stay.

You could easily spin this into whatever it needs to be to work for Grayson, including more interactions with superheroes, but IMO this is the best original/unique direction for the character since he originally went off as Nightwing in NTT. Tomasi's run on Nightwing was close, but this is just on another level.

Yes Grayson as Batman was fantastic, but we knew it was never permanent and never HIS. This feels like it could stick if DC lets it.

[JustJelly]

This is why I've never given a crap about Bludhaven.
Slade and the Brotherhood of Evil dropping Chemo on it was like a meta joke saying "NTT era > Bludhaven era" and I applaud it.

Bludhaven was great because Scott McDaniel's art gave it a hellish, post-apocalyptic feel. Dixon and McDaniel's Nightwing run was absolutely great. When McDaniel moved from Nightwing to Batman Bludhaven lost its feel and became a sub-Gotham City.