New Phil Jimenez/Wonder Woman Interview

[SonOfBaldwin]

“One of the reasons I got into comic books was to draw Wonder Woman.”

Weaned on WONDER WOMAN from an early age, Phil Jimenez jumped at the opportunity to tell the ongoing tales of his beloved heroine in 2001. The Southern California native and current New York resident had never written an ongoing book before, let alone draw it as well. Undaunted, he jumped in with ideas and internal mandates about who Diana was to him.

“I had such a clear vision of who that character was and what her world was. I was just so excited. I was not intimidated, but full of joy and excitement. I could not wait to draw every page."

Jimenez spent over 90 minutes with The Bronze Review discussing the roots of the character, her drastic changes over the decades and how he would like another opportunity to work on Wonder Woman again. He reflected on his impact on the character's legacy, his idol, GEORGE PEREZ, and spending a Thursday evening on the floor of his editor’s office trying to make a crossover event make sense.

http://www.thebronzereview.com/#!ww-phil-jimenez/c1a1h

[SteveGus]

I think he's right, in that Kingdom Come is where she started to go wrong.

Post-Perez, particularly from Kingdom Come on, the character has made also a 180. She’s now almost nothing about gender and sex, and in most incarnations is a celebration of war. I can’t help but wonder how this does the character any good in the long run, and what it does for her myth or metaphor. I’m always really pondering that.

It’s fascinating to me, because it feels like, I often say the boys won. You had a character that defined all these expectations. Marston took this Greek mythology and totally played with it, took the Amazon legend and spun it and said, what if they weren’t like this, what if they were like this? What if instead of these savage barbarians they were scientists who traveled to Venus? The ‘what if’ about it is what I think is so interesting. Let’s examine this myth from another angle, and the literalization, the literal approach to those characters, and the Amazon myth. Reducing it to RED SONJA or XENA, it doesn’t feel to me that it does those characters any good in the long run. It might sell comics, certainly, and there is a visceral feel when we get to see a chick in a sword and a spear cutting off heads, obviously that serves some function. But at the end of the day, I wonder what that iteration about Wonder Woman says about women and what it says about war.

[chlj1]

He's right!! In most incarnations of WW, she is portrayed as a celebration of war!! In her solo comic she is surrounded by extremely violent Gods and humans, everything in her world is dark!! Now she's a symbol for death and destruction!! Now WW is the God of War!! Mankind greatest threat!!

[brettc1]

I think one of the defining moments of Phil's run and of Wonder Woman in the last 30 years was when she gets excited about going for ice cream.

No, that is not a joke, because here you have this totally bad ass warrior, and she is getting juiced about ice cream with her sister. It is a real trope breaker, because it challenges the idea that if a woman is going to be the equal of a man in fighting she has to be - basically - a man with a vagina. I also appreciated the subtle message by having that play out in front of Lois Lane, who I think is a wonderful character but one who is tough because of how she was raised by her military father.This plays into the idea that strong woman can't be soft, she can't be "girly", because its absurd to think that she could be like that and still be tough enough to throw down with the Bat.

But with one simple line we establish the idea that tough is NOT an exclusively male domain, or that you can only achieve it by conforming to this hyper-masculine agenda. That was at the core of Marston's philosophy at the very beginning and I think Phil Jimenez and George Perez communicated it better than any other writers of the character.

[Mel Dyer]

I loved Phil's run on WW, except for the awful, stick-up-the-butt personality that he gave Diana. She may as well have been a middle-aged, male, liberal U.S. congressman.

She was no fun.

[brettc1]

I loved Phil's run on WW, except for the awful, stick-up-the-butt personality that he gave Diana. She may as well have been a middle-aged, male, liberal U.S. congressman.

She was no fun.

If there was a middle aged male liberal Congressman somewhere in these scenes, I never saw him...

[SonOfBaldwin]

I think a lot worked in the Azzarello run, I can't help but think that this is true and, therefore, undermines the entire run for me:

My Wonder Woman is so different, that world is so different, from the NEW 52 Wonder Woman. My Wonder Woman would do anything to not be a GOD OF WAR. My Wonder Woman at her core was anti-war, anti-fighting. I made sure that she never fought anyone; she would reason, use her lasso. I was so disinterested in reinforcing this idea of a Warrior Princess because of my own ideological issues with war itself. KINGDOM COME had put her down this path that I was desperately trying to get her back off of.

It’s fascinating to me, because it feels like, I often say the boys won. You had a character that defined all these expectations. Marston took this Greek mythology and totally played with it, took the Amazon legend and spun it and said, what if they weren’t like this, what if they were like this? What if instead of these savage barbarians they were scientists who traveled to Venus? The ‘what if’ about it is what I think is so interesting. Let’s examine this myth from another angle, and the literalization, the literal approach to those characters, and the Amazon myth. Reducing it to RED SONJA or XENA, it doesn’t feel to me that it does those characters any good in the long run. It might sell comics, certainly, and there is a visceral feel when we get to see a chick in a sword and a spear cutting off heads, obviously that serves some function. But at the end of the day, I wonder what that iteration about Wonder Woman says about women and what it says about war.

[OBrianTallent]

While I absolutely loved Phil's run (and would still welcome him back) I think he mostly leaned to far to that one side, as Azzerello leaned to far to the other. There is a balance that can be met I think. Like Phil, I think Wonder Woman should have done everything in her power to NOT be the God of War...that should be so far from who she is that it shouldn't have even been a thought. However, it fits in too well with how Azz wrote the Amazons in the new 52.
It is entirely possible, depending on how well Morrison's book does that we could see a swing in the pendulum again. Geoff is writing a fairly different character in Justice League as well, more in line with this philosophy than the Azz/Finch Wonder Woman.

[DisneyBoy]

Can we PLEASE get him back on the title? Can we get a pre-Nu 52 Wonder Woman title back on the shelves and continue where Phil, Gail and Greg left off?

[dumbduck]

He's so great, but,

Post-Perez, particularly from Kingdom Come on, the character has made also a 180. She’s now almost nothing about gender and sex, and in most incarnations is a celebration of war. I can’t help but wonder how this does the character any good in the long run, and what it does for her myth or metaphor. I’m always really pondering that.

Oh, no. It's Kingdom Come's fault? 8( I'm sorry, I love his run, but blood, iron, swords and spears and death started with Perez.

Please, it can't be Superman's fault. From what I know it was an evolution that started with Perez and reached it's apex with Rucka. Kingdom Come was just a stage in this journey.

However, from the get go, I met interference, there was a crossover called OUR WORLDS AT WAR, which was going to be right in the middle of my story. That meant I had to truncate and negotiate the pace of some of these stories. It had been decided, which I had nothing to do with, to kill off HIPPOLYTA, and the Diana-Hippolyta relationship was the crux of my 12-issues. So suddenly I was losing a major supporting character halfway through.

Oh God. Hippolyta was killed in a Superman event because of the Superman event.

My Wonder Woman is so different, that world is so different, from the NEW 52 Wonder Woman. My Wonder Woman would do anything to not be a GOD OF WAR. My Wonder Woman at her core was anti-war, anti-fighting. I made sure that she never fought anyone; she would reason, use her lasso. I was so disinterested in reinforcing this idea of a Warrior Princess because of my own ideological issues with war itself. KINGDOM COME had put her down this path that I was desperately trying to get her back off of.

For a New 52 reader, I think what I would tell them is my version is rooted in early versions of Wonder Woman, and honors many of them. I take the best attributes of a character and combine them. The Wonder Woman and the world that they would read about is probably a surprise to them. But I think they could get a lot out of that version of the character.

It’s fascinating to me, because it feels like, I often say the boys won. You had a character that defined all these expectations. Marston took this Greek mythology and totally played with it, took the Amazon legend and spun it and said, what if they weren’t like this, what if they were like this? What if instead of these savage barbarians they were scientists who traveled to Venus? The ‘what if’ about it is what I think is so interesting. Let’s examine this myth from another angle, and the literalization, the literal approach to those characters, and the Amazon myth. Reducing it to RED SONJA or XENA, it doesn’t feel to me that it does those characters any good in the long run. It might sell comics, certainly, and there is a visceral feel when we get to see a chick in a sword and a spear cutting off heads, obviously that serves some function. But at the end of the day, I wonder what that iteration about Wonder Woman says about women and what it says about war.

But she didn't want to become the GOW. It was the best she could do with the situation. She didn't want to assume her seat on Olympus. She doesn't like war, she wants to do the best with her current situation. In Azzarello's book she always did her best to solve situations without fighting. In the Superman/Wonder Woman Future's End tie in she becomes the Goddess of Peace:


http://media.dcentertainment.com/sit...7.44902151.jpg
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/09...o-god-of-peace

She's still at her core the same Diana. It was only in the Justice League books that this 'Xena' characterization was present. She doesn't go swinging her sword around in SM/WW. She's calm, wise, awesome.

Jimenez, Rucka, Gail. I'm begging, give this pairing a chance.


http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...76/Begging.png

[dumbduck]

I think one of the defining moments of Phil's run and of Wonder Woman in the last 30 years was when she gets excited about going for ice cream.

No, that is not a joke, because here you have this totally bad ass warrior, and she is getting juiced about ice cream with her sister. It is a real trope breaker, because it challenges the idea that if a woman is going to be the equal of a man in fighting she has to be - basically - a man with a vagina. I also appreciated the subtle message by having that play out in front of Lois Lane, who I think is a wonderful character but one who is tough because of how she was raised by her military father.This plays into the idea that strong woman can't be soft, she can't be "girly", because its absurd to think that she could be like that and still be tough enough to throw down with the Bat.

But with one simple line we establish the idea that tough is NOT an exclusively male domain, or that you can only achieve it by conforming to this hyper-masculine agenda. That was at the core of Marston's philosophy at the very beginning and I think Phil Jimenez and George Perez communicated it better than any other writers of the character.

That's great but, wasn't the 'Ice Cream' scene in Justice League Origins derided? Back when 52 rebooted, what were the reactions to that? I've seen mostly negative comments about it. I'd like very much to see more scenes of Diana acting more feminine, but my gut instinct tells me that it would be characterized as sexist as long as she's paired with Clark.

If there was a middle aged male liberal Congressman somewhere in these scenes, I never saw him...

Brett, what about this picture:


http://nerdculturepodcast.com/wp-con...an-ww-kiss.jpg

If I remember correctly, you object to this image because Clark is the 'dominant' one. Is she allowed to sit on Clark's lap? Is she allowed to be feminine?

[Tayswift]

He's so great, but,



Oh, no. It's Kingdom Come's fault? 8( I'm sorry, I love his run, but blood, iron, swords and spears and death started with Perez.

Please, it can't be Superman's fault. From what I know it was an evolution that started with Perez and reached it's apex with Rucka. Kingdom Come was just a stage in this journey.

I wasn't going to post anything, then I saw this. what Rucka has to do with Kingdom come? His run is basically the continuation of Perez, with a mature Wonder woman.

wonder woman started to be all warrior rage beggining with Kingdom Come, even Waid said his wonder woman was bad.

Jimenez, Rucka, Gail. I'm begging, give this pairing a chance.


http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...76/Begging.png

haha they will never get a chance, specially when those 3 had better plans smashed by editorial

Brett, what about this picture:


http://nerdculturepodcast.com/wp-con...an-ww-kiss.jpg

If I remember correctly, you object to this image because Clark is the 'dominant' one. Is she allowed to sit on Clark's lap? Is she allowed to be feminine?

feminine is a thing, submisse is another. On jimenez wonder woman had agency, here she is only a play thing for superman.

[Stanlos]

Every time I read an interview with Phil I am always struck by how considerate of others he is. That he actually considered the financial and emotional investment of fans in stories past is pretty phenomenal.

The interview also points out one of the biggest flaws in the handling of the WW IP: the lack of imagination when it comes to Themyscira/Paradise Island. It seems that outside of Marston the Amazons and their home is the sight of marathon lounging for the vast majority of scribes. Phil's comment that PI is boring is so disheartening because he is one of the more WW friendly creators out there.

Her trappings are the least mined of any IP I know. Even Captain Marvel's toolbox has been more explored.

[dumbduck]

I wasn't going to post anything, then I saw this. what Rucka has to do with Kingdom come? His run is basically the continuation of Perez, with a mature Wonder woman.

wonder woman started to be all warrior rage beggining with Kingdom Come, even Waid said his wonder woman was bad.

But it's not only me who says this, many other people say that Diana's journey to become more warrior like started with Perez and reached it's climax with Rucka. Many, many comments from not SM/WW/52 fans saying that the 'Red Sonja' effect started long before the reboot.

Rucka didn't have to have Diana cutting Medusa's head off and killing Maxwell Lord. Kingdom Come had nothing to do with it, that's all I'm saying.

haha they will never get a chance, specially when those 3 had better plans smashed by editorial

feminine is a thing, submisse is another. On jimenez wonder woman had agency, here she is only a play thing for superman.

She's not submissive, much to the contrary.

[Tayswift]

But it's not only me who says this, many other people say that Diana's journey to become more warrior like started with Perez and reached it's climax with Rucka. Many, many comments from not SM/WW/52 fans saying that the 'Red Sonja' effect started long before the reboot.

Rucka didn't have to have Diana cutting Medusa's head off and killing Maxwell Lord. Kingdom Come had nothing to do with it, that's all I'm saying.

depends who are saying this too you
maxwell lord was because of a big crossover, even if fit well the theme Rucka wanted to explore about monsters. Rucka and Perez are for me the warrior on the most zen, spiritual side than anything else. Perez had wonder woman as embassador, how that was warrior like kingdom come?

rucka and perez had nothing to do with redsonja effect

If there was a middle aged male liberal Congressman somewhere in these scenes, I never saw him...

wish this relationship went forward . at the same time marvel was doing a interacial jessica jones and luke gage.