New Phil Jimenez/Wonder Woman Interview

[brettc1]

He's so great, but,



Oh, no. It's Kingdom Come's fault? 8( I'm sorry, I love his run, but blood, iron, swords and spears and death started with Perez.

Please, it can't be Superman's fault. From what I know it was an evolution that started with Perez and reached it's apex with Rucka. Kingdom Come was just a stage in this journey.




Oh God. Hippolyta was killed in a Superman event because of the Superman event.






But she didn't want to become the GOW. It was the best she could do with the situation. She didn't want to assume her seat on Olympus. She doesn't like war, she wants to do the best with her current situation. In Azzarello's book she always did her best to solve situations without fighting. In the Superman/Wonder Woman Future's End tie in she becomes the Goddess of Peace:


http://media.dcentertainment.com/sit...7.44902151.jpg
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/09...o-god-of-peace

She's still at her core the same Diana. It was only in the Justice League books that this 'Xena' characterization was present. She doesn't go swinging her sword around in SM/WW. She's calm, wise, awesome.

Jimenez, Rucka, Gail. I'm begging, give this pairing a chance.


http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...76/Begging.png

There is theoty in science that gradual changes lead to sudden radical big changes. This was the case post Kingdom Come.

[brettc1]

That's great but, wasn't the 'Ice Cream' scene in Justice League Origins derided? Back when 52 rebooted, what were the reactions to that? I've seen mostly negative comments about it. I'd like very much to see more scenes of Diana acting more feminine, but my gut instinct tells me that it would be characterized as sexist as long as she's paired with Clark.






Brett, what about this picture:


http://nerdculturepodcast.com/wp-con...an-ww-kiss.jpg

If I remember correctly, you object to this image because Clark is the 'dominant' one. Is she allowed to sit on Clark's lap? Is she allowed to be feminine?

You mean the scene whete she stalks through Washington with a sword and terrifies the ice cream vendor while telling Steve how much she loves to fight?

Why does feminine have to mean submissive?

[Frontier]

I wonder how long before he gets to meet Gal Gadot ?

[wagthedog]

I wonder how long before he gets to meet Gal Gadot ?

He already has on the movie set.

[Darius]

Why does feminine have to mean submissive?

I think that is a question for Dr. Marston ... the concept of submission to love is core to his imagining of the entire Amazon race

[brettc1]

I think that is a question for Dr. Marston ... the concept of submission to love is core to his imagining of the entire Amazon race

And yet Marstons Amazons could be both dominant AND submissive. So feminine in his philosophy could be both, and dominant was not an exclusively masculine perogative.

[dumbduck]

Awfully defensive DD, considering Superman is barely mentioned. There is theoty in science that gradual changes lead to sudden radical big changes. This was the case post Kingdom Come.

How could I not be? They had Hippolyta killed for a Superman event. The guy wants to write about her and they had her killed. I've been talking about the privilege of the Batman franchise and now this. Imagine if during Amazon's Attack they told a Superman writer to kill Martha. For reasons. What the heck were they thinking? It's all Superman's fault. 8(

You mean the scene whete she stalks through Washington with a sword and terrifies the ice cream vendor while telling Steve how much she loves to fight?

Why does feminine have to mean submissive?

Ah, you right. That was silly.

She was not submissive. It's a kiss. It's just a kiss. Huh. And. Feminine. And. Ah. Reasons. Not submissive. You know?

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...ps17cd11a5.jpg



http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...pscdpqrz4h.jpg


http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...psne5jsi2q.jpg

But... It's all Superman's fault.

It's all Superman's fault.

It's all Superman's fault.


http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/2x...the-corner.jpg

[brettc1]

How could I not be? They had Hippolyta killed for a Superman event. The guy wants to write about her and they had her killed. I've been talking about the privilege of the Batman franchise and now this. Imagine if during Amazon's Attack they told a Superman writer to kill Martha. For reasons. What the heck were they thinking? It's all Superman's fault. 8(

Ah, you right. That was silly.

She was not submissive. It's a kiss. It's just a kiss. Huh. And. Feminine. And. Ah. Reasons. Not submissive. You know?

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...ps17cd11a5.jpg



http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...pscdpqrz4h.jpg


http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...psne5jsi2q.jpg

But... It's all Superman's fault.

It's all Superman's fault.

It's all Superman's fault.


http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/2x...the-corner.jpg

Well yes.

Of course I didnt think our worlds at war was a Superman event. I thougjt it was a company wide crossover. But maybe thats not how Superman fans saw it?

And Superman cant apparently be masculine and submissive. Except ironically on covers.

[Tayswift]

And yet Marstons Amazons could be both dominant AND submissive. So feminine in his philosophy could be both, and dominant was not an exclusively masculine perogative.

let's get this right. Amazons were submissive with other amazons, marston liked women being submissive with other women. marston like men being submissive to women, not the contrary. People like to use Marston as excuse to seeing wonder woman submissive to superman, you are very wrong

Well yes.

Of course I didnt think our worlds at war was a Superman event. I thougjt it was a company wide crossover. But maybe thats not how Superman fans saw it?

And Superman cant apparently be masculine and submissive. Except ironically on covers.

what covers? because i don't saw anyone with superman being sexually submissive to wonder woman.

[brettc1]

let's get this right. Amazons were submissive with other amazons, marston liked women being submissive with other women. marston like men being submissive to women, not the contrary. People like to use Marston as excuse to seeing wonder woman submissive to superman, you are very wrong



what covers? because i don't saw anyone with superman being sexually submissive to wonder woman.

Justice League 12 where he is roped up.

[Darius]

And yet Marstons Amazons could be both dominant AND submissive. So feminine in his philosophy could be both, and dominant was not an exclusively masculine perogative.

That is true, but only because Marston claimed woman were more capable of love than men (I believe his term was "had more love organs"). But the key to happiness he always tried to get across was being able to submit to a loving authority. He almost always showed that authority as female, but that also shows that the authority themselves had submitted to love ... it's a never ending loop if you think about it. Marston went to great lengths to show that women should be in charge because they were capable of both authority and love, while men were more often cruel masters. But he also went to great length to show that submission wasn't a horrible thing, in fact it was a beautiful trait. I think the mistake people make is thinking submission=feminine=negative when in fact Marston was trying to show that submission=gender neutral=good.

[brettc1]

That is true, but only because Marston claimed woman were more capable of love than men (I believe his term was "had more love organs"). But the key to happiness he always tried to get across was being able to submit to a loving authority. He almost always showed that authority as female, but that also shows that the authority themselves had submitted to love ... it's a never ending loop if you think about it. Marston went to great lengths to show that women should be in charge because they were capable of both authority and love, while men were more often cruel masters. But he also went to great length to show that submission wasn't a horrible thing, in fact it was a beautiful trait. I think the mistake people make is thinking submission=feminine=negative when in fact Marston was trying to show that submission=gender neutral=good.

Which is kind of at odds with the very nature of Superman, who is supposed to be a dominant individual.

Weren't there a lot of fans getting narky because they felt like it had gotten to the stage pre-flashpoint where Lois kept his testicles in a box on her bedside table?

Heh. Love organs.

[Darius]

Which is kind of at odds with the very nature of Superman, who is supposed to be a dominant individual.

Weren't there a lot of fans getting narky because they felt like it had gotten to the stage pre-flashpoint where Lois kept his testicles in a box on her bedside table?

Heh. Love organs.

Golden Age SM would, by today's standards, be considered a massive chauvinist pig, but I credit that more with the times than anything. Lois and Clark were often in competition and he was more than a little condescending back in the 1940s. I'd call that more domineering than dominant and it plays right into Marston's "blood curdling masculinity" criticism of comics of the day.

Post-Crisis SM seemed to be focused on his "Big Blue Boyscout" persona, I'm sure there are fans that didn't love that, personally I kind of liked him like that, to me it fits the character to be a touch naive in the "small town boy in the big city" way. I found it endearing that he was so devoted to Lois ... I'd probably like the SM/WW relationship a bit better if he showed that much dedication to Diana. Personally I think SM/WW work better as more of a brother/sister relationship, but I don't hate them as a couple.

[Tayswift]

Which is kind of at odds with the very nature of Superman, who is supposed to be a dominant individual.

Weren't there a lot of fans getting narky because they felt like it had gotten to the stage pre-flashpoint where Lois kept his testicles in a box on her bedside table?

Heh. Love organs.

the problem was Lois...I don't think they will be so ragey if writer swipe lois for wonder woman.

[DisneyBoy]

They had Hippolyta killed for a Superman event. The guy wants to write about her and they had her killed. I've been talking about the privilege of the Batman franchise and now this. Imagine if during Amazon's Attack they told a Superman writer to kill Martha. For reasons.

So true. I hate the way Diana's been jerked around by the DC Universe. But then, I hate it whenever one book is randomly influenced by things happening in another book that have nothing to do with the story being told by the writer.