New Phil Jimenez/Wonder Woman Interview

[dumbduck]

Well yes.

Of course I didnt think our worlds at war was a Superman event. I thougjt it was a company wide crossover. But maybe thats not how Superman fans saw it?

And Superman cant apparently be masculine and submissive. Except ironically on covers.

The event where Maxima and Hipollyta sacrificed themselves to save Earth and then Superman thanked his 2 fathers for his resolve? Yep, I'm afraid that's pretty much a Superman event. (Hurls a little bit ).

But, what about all those pictures I put here?

[brettc1]

The event where Maxima and Hipollyta sacrificed themselves to save Earth and then Superman thanked his 2 fathers for his resolve? Yep, I'm afraid that's pretty much a Superman event. (Hurls a little bit ).

But, what about all those pictures I put here?

You mean the one where he pulls her to him and kisses her in front of the football crowd? Was that supposed to be Superman being submissive?

In the future where she becomes goddess of peace that only happens after Superman arrives from the past, at which point Wonder Woman realises she's been wrong for decades about who she is supposed to be. So him kneeling in front of her after he has just saved her from herself is just another bit of irony to me.

[Tayswift]

You mean the one where he pulls her to him and kisses her in front of the football crowd? Was that supposed to be Superman being submissive?

In the future where she becomes goddess of peace that only happens after Superman arrives from the past, at which point Wonder Woman realises she's been wrong for decades about who she is supposed to be. So him kneeling in front of her after he has just saved her from herself is just another bit of irony to me.

Iknowright.gif

well i'm tired of male writers making female characters lose control of the powers. wanda maximoff, jean grey, the last one at least got some redemption with scott going cray with phoenix twice.
I like the concept of wonder owman being God of war, she shouldn't just shrug off and become god of peace, that was dumb and disrespectifull with what azzarello did with her. put superman saving her, that was the cherry on the cake

[SonOfBaldwin]

He's so great, but,


Oh, no. It's Kingdom Come's fault? 8( I'm sorry, I love his run, but blood, iron, swords and spears and death started with Perez.

I agree with this. When Wonder Woman decapitated Deimos' head way back WONDER WOMAN #5, I remember being shocked and appalled right along with many other WW readers.

That was the turning point, in my estimation.

[SonOfBaldwin]

Every time I read an interview with Phil I am always struck by how considerate of others he is. That he actually considered the financial and emotional investment of fans in stories past is pretty phenomenal.

The interview also points out one of the biggest flaws in the handling of the WW IP: the lack of imagination when it comes to Themyscira/Paradise Island. It seems that outside of Marston the Amazons and their home is the sight of marathon lounging for the vast majority of scribes. Phil's comment that PI is boring is so disheartening because he is one of the more WW friendly creators out there.

Her trappings are the least mined of any IP I know. Even Captain Marvel's toolbox has been more explored.

That is, indeed, to me, the worst part of it. The Amazons and Themyscira had such potential.

[Agent Z]

I agree with this. When Wonder Woman decapitated Deimos' head way back WONDER WOMAN #5, I remember being shocked and appalled right along with many other WW readers.

That was the turning point, in my estimation.

But she makes it clear in that scene that she didn't want to do it and it's not like she became the Punisher.

I agree some writers take it too far though.

[Tayswift]

But she makes it clear in that scene that she didn't want to do it and it's not like she became the Punisher.

I agree some writers take it too far though.

yes, perez wonder owman was far from violent; that is why people associate the bloodthirsty wonder woman with kingdom come and not perez;

i think tha tmaking her violent, completely loses the point of the character

[SonOfBaldwin]

But she makes it clear in that scene that she didn't want to do it and it's not like she became the Punisher.

I agree some writers take it too far though.

I'm not saying that Perez took it to the extreme, just that he opened the door.

[Agent Z]

I'm not saying that Perez took it to the extreme, just that he opened the door.

Ah, fair enough then.

[Hypo]

[Sacred Knight]

OWAW would be best described as a Superman-themed company wide crossover. Its born by and large from his mythos. Just like, for instance, Blackest Night was a Green Lantern-themed company wide crossover event.

[brettc1]

I'm not saying that Perez took it to the extreme, just that he opened the door.

Yes, but you could say the same thing about John Byrne and Superman, and yet Clark has not become [in]famous for using killing force.

After the incident with Deimos, Wonder Woman literally went for years without using deadly force on a living creature. She refused to execute Ixion the Assassin when he was restrained.

There is, after all, a world of difference between killing Deimos in battle to save her friends and this...



Through the back, Wonder Woman? Not even an honorable kill, but "no choice" my arse! That sword cuts atoms - she could have literally dis-armed him with the same result, except it would not have escalated the violence even further. That is the real awfulness of the scene, that Wonder Woman's actions contribute to putting the situation completely out of control and she can't even see it.

[NYCER]

I'm glad PJ spoke about his disagreement about turning Diana into the God of War, which does not honor Marston's vision. Wonder Woman is the antithesis of war, which Azzarello and Chiang simply - for reasons I will never understand - ignored. They never understood the character and that's why I can't reread the first 3 years of the New 52's WONDER WOMAN.

Unlike BA and CC, PH and George Perez "got it" and respected Marston's concept. There's a reason Marston's Mars was a Wonder Wonan nemesis, which GP echoed in his great initial arc for the post-CRISIS WONDER WOMAN when he used Ares as the heavy villain. Marston must be rolling in his grave because of BA and CC's mishandling of Wonder Woman and their transforming her into the embodiment of war.

[SeanT]

But "God of War" is just a title. A name. It's what you do with the title that shows characters, and Azzarello's Diana showed her true nature even under the mantle of her nemesis. Forgiving her enemies, imploring others to do the same. Changing the nature of god and man-- that's what Marston was about, and that's what Azzarello showed again and again.

It was Perez, and later Jimenez, who didn't "get" the Marston's Wonder Woman-- except to remove everything that made her unique. Love as her goddess and primary principle, her mission to transform her adversaries, the mythology of her bracelets and lasso, her vow against killing, Amazon training, the sex politics and the weirdness and eccentricity.

Perez may have stuck to the plot, but he took away all the most important details, turning her into a generic Thor/Captain Marvel mythological hero, instead of what she had been-- a warrior of love.

[Agent Z]

But "God of War" is just a title. A name. It's what you do with the title that shows characters, and Azzarello's Diana showed her true nature even under the mantle of her nemesis. Forgiving her enemies, imploring others to do the same. Changing the nature of god and man-- that's what Marston was about, and that's what Azzarello showed again and again.

It was Perez, and later Jimenez, who didn't "get" the Marston's Wonder Woman-- except to remove everything that made her unique. Love as her goddess and primary principle, her mission to transform her adversaries, the mythology of her bracelets and lasso, her vow against killing, Amazon training, the sex politics and the weirdness and eccentricity.

Perez may have stuck to the plot, but he took away all the most important details.

You do realize that Marston and Azzarello had her killing people as well, right? Nad how was she lacking in love and compassion under Perez and Jimenez who showed Diana as an ambassador and philanthropist? They also portrayed the Amazons a hell of a lot better. Under them, the Amazons were healers, philosophers, poets, artists etc. How often did Azzarello have Diana use the Lasso? And what role did Aphrodite play? Perez had Hippolyta forgive Heracles for his crimes against them and he showed the Amazons growing past their hatred and anger over what had been done with them.



Just because Jimenez and Perez didn't have Diana constantly get tied up doesn't mean they didn't get her.