Gwen Stacy Appreciation 2018

[Celgress]

This thread is wild, and not in a fun way. "What sort of Peter/Gwen fanfic would fans like to see?" turned into a metathesis on why we're not allowed to ship them together because the original writers were so incompetent with writing them consistently and complaining about AUs being different (LOL), when the entire idea of fanfic is to get something the official writers never gave us. A wacky au with a happy ending, untapped potential of two characters that fell in love and never got to see it through, in practically EVERY AU Peter and Gwen are ripped apart.

"Maybe it's for a REASON" nah, it's lazy writing at this point.

Well, the AU pairing seems popular enough in other circles (outside of this site). On different fanfic sites, they seem to dominate the story stats to a great degree (as I can attest). So, don't let it bother you so much. Different people and even groups see things in different ways. To each their own as I say. Although people constantly picking apart an AU concept for arbitrary reasons, often based upon personal preference, can get tiresome. I still remember how when I suggested Peter could be gay in an AU setting I received quite the little backlash.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

This thread is wild, and not in a fun way. "What sort of Peter/Gwen fanfic would fans like to see?" turned into a metathesis on why we're not allowed to ship them together ...

The thread is "Gwen Stacy Appreciation" which means you look and appreciate all her facets and unique qualities.

Having said that, yeah you guys can write fanfic about them. Totally. And you can improve a lot on the original romance and realtonship. That's what the original mini-thread was about. There were complaints and issues when she was alive, one shared by female fans of that era. So you have some idea of how things can change, and maybe this information and material can give you new ideas on how to make it better...if you find it useful. If not, then my opinion doesn't count for anything, and you can go ahead and ignore me and do what you feel is right and pleases you.

...That's all this is about. Nothing more.

[spidergwen]

Well, the AU pairing seems popular enough in other circles (outside of this site). On different fanfic sites, they seem to dominate the story stats to a great degree (as I can attest). So, don't let it bother you so much. Different people and even groups see things in different ways. To each their own as I say. Although people constantly picking apart an AU concept for arbitrary reasons, often based upon personal preference, can get tiresome. I still remember how when I suggested Peter could be gay in an AU setting I received quite the little backlash.

People are exhausting, because a gay or even bisexual Peter Parker would have been amazing, but I highly doubt Marvel would ever make that happen. They like to act like allies to the LGBT community, but they're not, not really. Fans are just as bad for freaking out, if not worse, for just fighting against a headcanon he's a MLM.

[AngelJD]

"A wacky au with a happy ending, untapped potential of two characters that fell in love and never got to see it through, in practically EVERY AU Peter and Gwen are ripped apart."

spoilers:

In a new What If? Peter was the Punisher both Gwen and him work things out and lived. In fact his rouge gallery dies as he killed them but he is able to save Gwen even after she had that fall due to simply being at a different angle when he webbed her. That actually shocked me as it was such a norm that any Gwen's that looked and was very similar to 616 Gwen would normally die but that What If twisted things. Also usually in tales where Peter kills we see the ramifications against him in the end. Not this time however. The one ramification for Peter not caring about the gang war happening as he was just seeing the evil gangs killing each other was that he had forgotten about the possible innocents that might be hit in the crossfire of that war/power grabs. Like Castle's family.

end of spoilers

I think a writer is allowed to ship characters with whoever they want as long as it fits the characters of that world. Plus preferable not to make another character you are responsible for purposely look bad (aka 'Ron the death eater') or kill off to just make your 'ship' look better/sail).
A Peter and a Gwen.
Sure.
A Peter and a MJ.
Sure
A MJ and a Gwen.
Sure.
Gwen and Miles.
Sure.
Peter, Gwen, or MJ and a original character.
Sure.

In fact one of my favorite 'love interests' for a Multiverse Peter/Spider-man was a gal named 'Chat' from 'Marvel Adventures Spider-man' series. So anybody is open to pair with anybody as long as it fits those characters and Earth. If they don't fit then for a writer they can undergo character developments and careful story planning and interactions that changes them to be able to fit better by a writer and overall character developments improvements as a individual (while hopefully not dragging another down in the process).

I feel many characters with the constant changing times and cultures has to have some sort of character development in their life to continue to thieve. I feel the ones that remain today vs those that disappeared have lived on due to various writers taking characters and performing a character developments on them.
If 616 version 1 Stan Lee's Gwen ever made a appearance again in some form (ghost or whatever) then based on with what people might feel as inconsistencies of (only her 616 depictions of just Version 1 616) Gwen will need to be reviewed by the writer(s) and then gain some sort of questioning and 'insights' to everything in her mindframe/mental state. Then from there after much questioning and coming with possible directions set a path to character developments that would fit today's culture better and make her existence and journey a fascinating one.

I'm also going to also honest here that it feels strange that we can write the writer as the main source such as with 'Scott's Carlie' but for Gwen we say "'Steve Ditko's Gwen''. I know that the first design and that 'art speaks a thousand words' but those words she say's came from Stan Lee thus shouldn't we be labeling all characters then by both writer and artist that makes them who they are and charazations/storytelling for whatever issue/time they were around allowing equally in both the good and bad things about characters we feel towards to their makers/movers?

[eratas123]

I have written Spider-Gwen romances (one with MCU Peter and another with Noir), but it's difficult because Gwen's one of the most non-romantic Spiders in canon. According to flashbacks she never caught on till May told her years later that Peter was in love with her and she doesn't seem to have realized Harry felt the same. Likewise her comic romance with Miles was cut off with 'let's stay friends' with Gwen suggesting it, again leaning towards the idea that she's generally uninterested in romance. Supposedly Ghost Spider will delve into this difficulty now that she's an open hero, but I still give 50/50 shot that the new author will break up Glory and MJ and just have the latter get together with Gwen.

But alright, for discussion's sake, how do you guys think Spider-Gwen in a relationship would go? For the Noir romance I always felt off writing it since Gwen has to compromise a lot to wave away or allow Noir using a gun and generally being far more morally ambigious than the average Spider. In the MCU thing she's similar to Spider-Verse in that MCU/Miles is more obviously crushing while Gwen's pretty blase about the whole thing. How would you guys do it?

[spidergwen]

I have written Spider-Gwen romances (one with MCU Peter and another with Noir), but it's difficult because Gwen's one of the most non-romantic Spiders in canon. According to flashbacks she never caught on till May told her years later that Peter was in love with her and she doesn't seem to have realized Harry felt the same. Likewise her comic romance with Miles was cut off with 'let's stay friends' with Gwen suggesting it, again leaning towards the idea that she's generally uninterested in romance. Supposedly Ghost Spider will delve into this difficulty now that she's an open hero, but I still give 50/50 shot that the new author will break up Glory and MJ and just have the latter get together with Gwen.

But alright, for discussion's sake, how do you guys think Spider-Gwen in a relationship would go? For the Noir romance I always felt off writing it since Gwen has to compromise a lot to wave away or allow Noir using a gun and generally being far more morally ambigious than the average Spider. In the MCU thing she's similar to Spider-Verse in that MCU/Miles is more obviously crushing while Gwen's pretty blase about the whole thing. How would you guys do it?

I haven't read the Spider-Gwen comics, but from what you're explaining, it sounds like she's asexual or the writers assume feminism means "she's not romantically involved, damn near ever", but considering her reputation is "spider-man's dead girlfriend" I guess it could make sense the writers would want to steer clear of writing her in a romance for the time being. Or forever, what ever their goals are.

If I were writing fanfiction for Gwen, my mantra for the most part would be to actively avoid canon. It's anti-climactic, but canon is disappointing to me. :/

[eratas123]

I don't think she's asexual. She clearly shows attraction to a man at one point - discussing Prince lookalike Baron Blood - and she never comes off as uninterested in sex. My guess is it's just that she's too busy angsting amd worrying about other things that she doesn't think too much about romance. Considering Ghost Spider is lighter we'll likely see her delve into this more.

As for Harry and Peter, she's just oblivious, which is a common enough comic trope. Glory called her out when she refused Harry's prom invitation, comenting that she's either a deadly viper assassin or she has zero game. Gwen just acted confused like a typical rom-com character.

Still, if you avoid canon how would you write Gwen? Any basis?

[spidergwen]

That's a weirdly entertaining idea. Better than "a strong female character must be alone to be a feminist" yawn.

Well, when I say 'avoid canon' I basically mean the wildly outdated, misogynistic and nonsensical plot twists, and especially Gwen's death.
A hybrid of the original Gwen and Spider-Gwen's abilities. The original Gwen was loyal, canonically a science major, as smart as Peter, a drama queen and strong. Peter kidnapped Gwen after George's death, and instead of crying, she fought back against him, struggling the entire time. I just love the idea of the original Gwen becoming Ghost Spider, or hell, even Gwenom. I don't have all the kinks worked out, but that's my fantasy story.

[eratas123]

That's a weirdly entertaining idea. Better than "a strong female character must be alone to be a feminist" yawn.

Well, when I say 'avoid canon' I basically mean the wildly outdated, misogynistic and nonsensical plot twists, and especially Gwen's death.
A hybrid of the original Gwen and Spider-Gwen's abilities. The original Gwen was loyal, canonically a science major, as smart as Peter, a drama queen and strong. Peter kidnapped Gwen after George's death, and instead of crying, she fought back against him, struggling the entire time. I just love the idea of the original Gwen becoming Ghost Spider, or hell, even Gwenom. I don't have all the kinks worked out, but that's my fantasy story.

Yeah, Gwen's kind of a putz when it comes to this feelings stuff:



As pointed out elsewhere, Spider-Gwen seems to fit the 'cool loser' stereotype: she's pretty, headstrong, a member of a locally famous band and she doesn't have the personality deficiencies of either Harry or Peter. Despite this, either by choice or being ostracized by association, she's never shown as having a wider social circle like 616 Gwen. One flashback even shows that she and Peter sat alone at lunch despite the scene itself establishing that Gwen is outgoing and very much capable of of making friends:



She even lacks the fatal flaw of most Peters: initial selfishness. The reason changes, but the end result of every origin story is that Peter lets a robber get away and said robber then shoots Ben. What makes this unfair in Gwen's case it that she didn't. The annual shows her debating briefly but ultimately going back to stop the robber, saving Ben's life in the process:



Gwen also used her powers to defend Peter from his bullies. Maybe she could've handled it better by teaching him self defense, but still. Essentially, she did everything right. Despite this she still gets screwed over, and it's arguably worse than 616 since at least he wasn't accused of murdering Uncle Ben with his bare hands. At this point me and many others are convinced that God damn spider bite is a curse and that the second you get bitten you will spend the rest of your life taking it up the rear end. Only difference is how you're gonna get screwed.

With regards to your fic ideas, I can see it. There's actually a fanfic I saw on fanfiction that tied into this similar idea called Venom is the Cure. Essentially the bridging happens except Gwen becomes comatose for five years instead till Venom, after being separated from Peter earlier, finds her and revives her, turning her to Gwenom. Gwen struggles with her rage at having five years of her life taken and Norman still being alive mixed with her desire not to go too far in indulging Venom's bloodlust. She also still loves Peter, who remained devoted to her, but finding out he was Spider-Man mixed with Venom's cocktail of feeling rejected and still loving Peter...kinda unbalances her - https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1309622...om-is-the-Cure

I skipped ahead to chapter 2 since 1 seems to be just the clocktower and set up.

[spidergwen]

Yeah, Gwen's kind of a putz when it comes to this feelings stuff:



As pointed out elsewhere, Spider-Gwen seems to fit the 'cool loser' stereotype: she's pretty, headstrong, a member of a locally famous band and she doesn't have the personality deficiencies of either Harry or Peter. Despite this, either by choice or being ostracized by association, she's never shown as having a wider social circle like 616 Gwen. One flashback even shows that she and Peter sat alone at lunch despite the scene itself establishing that Gwen is outgoing and very much capable of of making friends:



She even lacks the fatal flaw of most Peters: initial selfishness. The reason changes, but the end result of every origin story is that Peter lets a robber get away and said robber then shoots Ben. What makes this unfair in Gwen's case it that she didn't. The annual shows her debating briefly but ultimately going back to stop the robber, saving Ben's life in the process:



Gwen also used her powers to defend Peter from his bullies. Maybe she could've handled it better by teaching him self defense, but still. Essentially, she did everything right. Despite this she still gets screwed over, and it's arguably worse than 616 since at least he wasn't accused of murdering Uncle Ben with his bare hands. At this point me and many others are convinced that God damn spider bite is a curse and that the second you get bitten you will spend the rest of your life taking it up the rear end. Only difference is how you're gonna get screwed.

With regards to your fic ideas, I can see it. There's actually a fanfic I saw on fanfiction that tied into this similar idea called Venom is the Cure. Essentially the bridging happens except Gwen becomes comatose for five years instead till Venom, after being separated from Peter earlier, finds her and revives her, turning her to Gwenom. Gwen struggles with her rage at having five years of her life taken and Norman still being alive mixed with her desire not to go too far in indulging Venom's bloodlust. She also still loves Peter, who remained devoted to her, but finding out he was Spider-Man mixed with Venom's cocktail of feeling rejected and still loving Peter...kinda unbalances her - https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1309622...om-is-the-Cure

I skipped ahead to chapter 2 since 1 seems to be just the clocktower and set up.

Lmao omg she's so effing cute. I'd die for every single version of Gwen, even Raimi's Gwen. I can't find much of anything on the Spider-Gwen comics, I've tried to hunt her origin story down but I can't find it. -_-
I've read "Dead no More" about 4 times, but readcomicsonline seems to have some missing pages. -_- I wish they'd pulled through on keeping Gwen alive, after binging "redeeming gwendy" artical on how "Sins Past" and the comics in general are a mess, I don't think the original Gwen would have ever been able to stomach Peter being Spider-Man, she'd be in hysterics just worrying about Peter, then add Peter being Spider-Man into the mix, she'd be out of her mind constantly. But a Gwen that's been dead for "10" years, comes back, seasoned and wiser? There's a great story there.

Please, I've drained all the P/G fanfiction at least 4 times, and read "Venom Is The Cure" at least 11 times. I've been hyper-stalking the story since day one. xD This fic is a million times better than canon, this would have been an incredible story but the writers were incompetent misogynists. -_-

But chapter one was awesome? Gwen only has a cameo in it, but it's so theatrically set up, dark, dramatic and eloquently written.

[eratas123]

Lmao omg she's so effing cute. I'd die for every single version of Gwen, even Raimi's Gwen. I can't find much of anything on the Spider-Gwen comics, I've tried to hunt her origin story down but I can't find it. -_-
I've read "Dead no More" about 4 times, but readcomicsonline seems to have some missing pages. -_- I wish they'd pulled through on keeping Gwen alive, after binging "redeeming gwendy" artical on how "Sins Past" and the comics in general are a mess, I don't think the original Gwen would have ever been able to stomach Peter being Spider-Man, she'd be in hysterics just worrying about Peter, then add Peter being Spider-Man into the mix, she'd be out of her mind constantly. But a Gwen that's been dead for "10" years, comes back, seasoned and wiser? There's a great story there.

Please, I've drained all the P/G fanfiction at least 4 times, and read "Venom Is The Cure" at least 11 times. I've been hyper-stalking the story since day one. xD This fic is a million times better than canon, this would have been an incredible story but the writers were incompetent misogynists. -_-

But chapter one was awesome? Gwen only has a cameo in it, but it's so theatrically set up, dark, dramatic and eloquently written.

If nothing else, I found Gwen's beta costume FAR better looking than Peter's, particularly her mask having designs around the eyes and still managing to have a hood. Gwen herself is cute as well, but I'll admit I got turned off for looking too much for fanart on her cause artists can't seem to resist the temptation to give her balloon breasts. This is one of the more absurd examples:



Her breasts are literally sagging to her chin, Jesus Christ! As for Peter and Gwen fanfics, there aren't that many recently. I tried looking for some for inspiration and most of them are for ASM or just short oneshots. Spider-Gwen fics are even rarer. Ao3 has some while fanfiction has maybe handful that aren't poorly written Peter/Spider-Gwen or OC/Spider-Gwen romance. Way too many of the former fics have Gwen and Peter reveal their identities immediately, and 50/50 shot they start making out and/or screwing five seconds afterwards, which just destroys my immersion.

[spidergwen]

If nothing else, I found Gwen's beta costume FAR better looking than Peter's, particularly her mask having designs around the eyes and still managing to have a hood. Gwen herself is cute as well, but I'll admit I got turned off for looking too much for fanart on her cause artists can't seem to resist the temptation to give her balloon breasts. This is one of the more absurd examples:



Her breasts are literally sagging to her chin, Jesus Christ! As for Peter and Gwen fanfics, there aren't that many recently. I tried looking for some for inspiration and most of them are for ASM or just short oneshots. Spider-Gwen fics are even rarer. Ao3 has some while fanfiction has maybe handful that aren't poorly written Peter/Spider-Gwen or OC/Spider-Gwen romance. Way too many of the former fics have Gwen and Peter reveal their identities immediately, and 50/50 shot they start making out and/or screwing five seconds afterwards, which just destroys my immersion.

Wait, weren't you the one that commented on this in your fanfic from Gwen's POV? lol I think she was looking at street art of herself, and she was annoyed they gave her giant boobs, and her internal dialogue was like "How do they expect me to websling with balloons strapped to my chest?"

Trying to find Gwen Stacy fanart is a minefield of pain and exhaustion, and I don't know which annoys me more, hyperfixating on her death or giving her big boobs. Small boobed girls need representation too. Plus it sounds stupid, and maybe it's not their idea but I like to think of it as a nod to Emma Stone's version. >> That, and when Gwen has a husky voice. <3

[eratas123]

Wait, weren't you the one that commented on this in your fanfic from Gwen's POV? lol I think she was looking at street art of herself, and she was annoyed they gave her giant boobs, and her internal dialogue was like "How do they expect me to websling with balloons strapped to my chest?"

Trying to find Gwen Stacy fanart is a minefield of pain and exhaustion, and I don't know which annoys me more, hyperfixating on her death or giving her big boobs. Small boobed girls need representation too. Plus it sounds stupid, and maybe it's not their idea but I like to think of it as a nod to Emma Stone's version. >> That, and when Gwen has a husky voice. <3

Huh, didn't think anyone over here read my fic, especially considering how far it drags and the odd pairing. As for fanart, I have seen a few good ones, but yeah most of them had absurd examples of boob socks and I just couldn't take them seriously. I actually liked that Gwen had a slight figure; reminds me of Stephanie Brown/Spoiler from Batman.

I prefer the Laura Bailey voice. The Marvel cartoon may be wonky, but the voice work is top notch.

[spidergwen]

Haha, I've read it. I read it for SGxNoir and I'm one of the annoying overzealous fangirls of them, but one of my favorite chapters- I guess was early in, after Noir went spastic, and I think the chapter ended on Peter and Gwen fighting.. I suck at summarizing, but tbf I've binge read fanfic nonstop for the past 8 months on them, so I'm not great at- well summarizing it. But yours maintains a lot of originality and effort. I don't know how you let reviewers dictate what happens in the story, I'd be like "go away this is my own thing" or "SHE DOESN'T EXIST IN THIS UNIVERSE" or "that was written 30+ years after she died, it is not canon".

[eratas123]

Haha, I've read it. I read it for SGxNoir and I'm one of the annoying overzealous fangirls of them, but one of my favorite chapters- I guess was early in, after Noir went spastic, and I think the chapter ended on Peter and Gwen fighting.. I suck at summarizing, but tbf I've binge read fanfic nonstop for the past 8 months on them, so I'm not great at- well summarizing it. But yours maintains a lot of originality and effort. I don't know how you let reviewers dictate what happens in the story, I'd be like "go away this is my own thing" or "SHE DOESN'T EXIST IN THIS UNIVERSE" or "that was written 30+ years after she died, it is not canon".

Huh...nice to see a reader As for letting reviewers dictate, it's cause this is half for me and half for my readers, so letting them get a say in some things seems fair. The only thing I was legit annoyed by was just how much support this pairing got considering how dysfunctional the pair of them are. I mean they lie, fight, attack and generally act vitriolic to one another for the first half of the story...and yet readers seem convinced they're perfect for each other, nevermind the whole 'thou shalt not' kill disagreement that's hanging overhead.

Speaking of, are we allowed to discuss fanfics here or should this be taken to PM? I haven't been in CBR long and this is pretty much the only thread I frequent so some clarification from everyone else would be nice.