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  1. #1816
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit, King of Thieves View Post
    They had the souls, too?
    Then those aren’t even clones, just clone bodies. They aren’t even just philosophically not different at this point, they’re the exact same people only on a strict medication schedule.
    Clone Conspiracy doesn't talk about souls. It's meant to be thought of either way whether it's really the same person, because CC clones are just made from corpses and have all the memories up to becoming a corpse. So when

    spoilers:
    Kingpin is presented with clone Vanessa, he kills her and calls her an abomination. Because it's not the same to him.
    end of spoilers

    The topic of souls only came up with PAD in Ben's solo. The relevant idea is that all the trauma has corrupted his soul, but if the book outright says he has the same soul, then that doesn't make sense and can be ignored. After all, at any point Jackal could've made two of him.
    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

  2. #1817
    Astonishing Member Gambit, King of Thieves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eratas123 View Post
    X-23 runs around in what must be ass chafing leather and 9/10 times keeps her midriff exposed. The combat boots seem to be the only practical thing about her. I preffered her Spider-Gwen version/Shadowcat, she seems to wear something far more practical:



    Earth-65 seems to be the world where fem heroes get the simultaneously practical and impractical costumes. As for the ballet shoes, I'm guessing they're not actual ballet shoes and more the style. Either that or Spiderverse Gwen's just that good: her combat style is very graceful among the Spiders and she incorporates actual dance moves into her fighting.
    She’s got a leather jacket, but asides from that X-Force “hey I don’t value myself ata lol and my clothing choice reflects how little self-worth I have” she’s been decent. I don’t think her outfits are leather. A little midriff these days, but I’m more talking about the attitude that goes along with combat boots than the rest of the costume. Combat boots are cool. Her current suit is a good choice for her, but yeah, don’t stick Gwen in an X-23 costume. Just make her even more badass, because it doesn’t get more badass than X-23, who once blew up a building without bothering to leave first.
    Cyclops was SO DAMN RIGHT, BABY
    Pull list: X-23, Mr. & Mrs. X, Extermination, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Uncanny X-Men
    Have been informed that the Black Swans are "only seeking female members, but thank you very much for your time"

  3. #1818
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    The grey Wolverine costume was leather, wasn't it mentioned in the dialogue? The cowl that came with it was actually a helmet, too. The first yellow one though was spandex. The X-Men Red one was some sort of nanotech-immune armour.
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  4. #1819
    Astonishing Member Gambit, King of Thieves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    The grey Wolverine costume was leather, wasn't it mentioned in the dialogue? The cowl that came with it was actually a helmet, too. The first yellow one though was spandex. The X-Men Red one was some sort of nanotech-immune armour.
    Oh, All-New Wolverine was leather. I’m talking Laura as X-23, because ANW is fine, but my favorite issue is definitely the annual, which was actually my introduction to Gwen-65. Every X-23 series has been better than ANW, as was X-Force.
    Cyclops was SO DAMN RIGHT, BABY
    Pull list: X-23, Mr. & Mrs. X, Extermination, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Uncanny X-Men
    Have been informed that the Black Swans are "only seeking female members, but thank you very much for your time"

  5. #1820
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    Well, at least now we have a justification for Gwen's hood sticking: her suit is composed of thousands if not millions of little spiders that make up Venom just in the shape of her old suit, so presumably the hood is just bolted on and just high enough to avoid fucking with peripheral vision.

  6. #1821
    Astonishing Member Gambit, King of Thieves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eratas123 View Post
    Well, at least now we have a justification for Gwen's hood sticking: her suit is composed of thousands if not millions of little spiders that make up Venom just in the shape of her old suit, so presumably the hood is just bolted on and just high enough to avoid fucking with peripheral vision.
    You know, Iím a big fan of the whole venom thing as long as itís not actually Venom, just the fancy suit.
    And she doesnít need peripheral vision sheís got spidey-sense.
    Cyclops was SO DAMN RIGHT, BABY
    Pull list: X-23, Mr. & Mrs. X, Extermination, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Uncanny X-Men
    Have been informed that the Black Swans are "only seeking female members, but thank you very much for your time"

  7. #1822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit, King of Thieves View Post
    You know, I’m a big fan of the whole venom thing as long as it’s not actually Venom, just the fancy suit.
    And she doesn’t need peripheral vision she’s got spidey-sense.
    Her Spidey sense is shit and refuses to work half the time:




    The wiki outright says it's unreliable. No, we have no idea why. She just has shit luck, which is the same reason why saving Uncle Ben somehow fucked her life worse than being selfish and letting the robber go. Ten bucks says that if she'd let the robber kill Ben it would've distracted 65-Peter and/or Gwen would've told him about her secret identity out of guilt, therefore averting disaster and angst:


  8. #1823
    Astonishing Member Gambit, King of Thieves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eratas123 View Post
    Her Spidey sense is shit and refuses to work half the time:




    The wiki outright says it's unreliable. No, we have no idea why. She just has shit luck, which is the same reason why saving Uncle Ben somehow fucked her life worse than being selfish and letting the robber go. Ten bucks says that if she'd let the robber kill Ben it would've distracted 65-Peter and/or Gwen would've told him about her secret identity out of guilt, therefore averting disaster and angst:

    ...you got a point there.
    Cyclops was SO DAMN RIGHT, BABY
    Pull list: X-23, Mr. & Mrs. X, Extermination, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Uncanny X-Men
    Have been informed that the Black Swans are "only seeking female members, but thank you very much for your time"

  9. #1824
    Astonishing Member Gambit, King of Thieves's Avatar
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    On an unrelated note, Iím pumped that sheís the only multiverse traversing spider now.
    Cyclops was SO DAMN RIGHT, BABY
    Pull list: X-23, Mr. & Mrs. X, Extermination, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Uncanny X-Men
    Have been informed that the Black Swans are "only seeking female members, but thank you very much for your time"

  10. #1825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit, King of Thieves View Post
    ...you got a point there.
    I had Madame Web/Teresa Parker point it out in my fic. She basically tells Gwen that, had she let Ben die, Peter's bullying would've let up due to pity and Gwen would've told him about her secret identity, which in turn would lead to Peter not dying, Gwen not being hunted for murder and remaining a popular and famous hero while Peter helped her out and became mentally healthier due to finding a positive outlet - the knowledge of this screws her up hard and Noir actually has to try and comfort her. No good deed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit, King of Thieves View Post
    On an unrelated note, I’m pumped that she’s the only multiverse traversing spider now.
    I still don't get that. What happened to all their watches? They make it sound like they're suddenly incapable of multiversal travel rather than just preferring not to.
    Last edited by eratas123; 12-30-2018 at 10:26 AM.

  11. #1826
    Astonishing Member Gambit, King of Thieves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eratas123 View Post
    I had Madame Web/Teresa Parker point it out in my fic. She basically tells Gwen that, had she let Ben die, Peter's bullying would've let up due to pity and Gwen would've told him about her secret identity, which in turn would lead to Peter not dying, Gwen not being hunted for murder and remaining a popular and famous hero while Peter helped her out and became mentally healthier due to finding a positive outlet - the knowledge of this screws her up hard and Noir actually has to try and comfort her. No good deed...



    I still don't get that. What happened to all their watches? They make it sound like they're suddenly incapable of multiversal travel rather than just preferring not to.
    The Web gets destroyed in Spider-Geddon, and that’s how their watches work.
    Think of it like the airport system being destroyed. You’ve still got the jets, but you need something else to move between cities now.
    Cyclops was SO DAMN RIGHT, BABY
    Pull list: X-23, Mr. & Mrs. X, Extermination, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Uncanny X-Men
    Have been informed that the Black Swans are "only seeking female members, but thank you very much for your time"

  12. #1827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit, King of Thieves View Post
    The Web gets destroyed in Spider-Geddon, and that’s how their watches work.
    Think of it like the airport system being destroyed. You’ve still got the jets, but you need something else to move between cities now.
    Ah, that explains it, thanks Still, I'm hoping Gwen sticks to her dimension for now. The constant crossovers she got were really annoying and killed the pace. That and they made the stakes nonsensical. One big part of the last run was Gwen claiming she had no allies to turn to. She disregards Cap due to pride and assumes Jessica, Silk and Miles have their own problems. Uh, Gwen, remember the WEB WARRIORS? The group whose job it is to HELP SPIDER PEOPLE and who you are a member of? This goes double for her powers. She loses her powers so she goes crawling to Kingpin for powers up. The Web Warriors include Spider-Man India and Octavia Otto who have access to the tech of Loomworld. Why the fuck is she begging her arch enemy for it?

  13. #1828
    Astonishing Member Gambit, King of Thieves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eratas123 View Post
    Ah, that explains it, thanks Still, I'm hoping Gwen sticks to her dimension for now. The constant crossovers she got were really annoying and killed the pace. That and they made the stakes nonsensical. One big part of the last run was Gwen claiming she had no allies to turn to. She disregards Cap due to pride and assumes Jessica, Silk and Miles have their own problems. Uh, Gwen, remember the WEB WARRIORS? The group whose job it is to HELP SPIDER PEOPLE and who you are a member of? This goes double for her powers. She loses her powers so she goes crawling to Kingpin for powers up. The Web Warriors include Spider-Man India and Octavia Otto who have access to the tech of Loomworld. Why the fuck is she begging her arch enemy for it?
    My No-Prize explanation: she doesn’t want her friends to see her like that.
    And I dont want constant crossovers, but maybe the occasional date with Miles, and hopping around the multiverse helping out, like Cable hops around the timestream, only better in literally every way.
    Cyclops was SO DAMN RIGHT, BABY
    Pull list: X-23, Mr. & Mrs. X, Extermination, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Uncanny X-Men
    Have been informed that the Black Swans are "only seeking female members, but thank you very much for your time"

  14. #1829
    Amazing Member spidergwen's Avatar
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    I just realized RCO has Issue #121 on there, so I finally read it and decided to hunt down Peter and Gwen's last conversation in issue #120 and it's painful. Just a few pages after their last conversation, Peter throws someone off a rooftop, and catches him and webbing each of his limbs.

    I get that the writers hated Gwen, but like.. maybe be less cocky about killing her off and aim for something more plausible and then rubbing it in our faces that Peter knows how to catch people properly.
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    "Sins Past" was deliberate character assassination (the writers admitted to pulling it out of thin air) and the OG Gwen was nothing but fiercely loyal to Peter Parker and it got her killed.

  15. #1830
    Incredible Member AngelJD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit, King of Thieves View Post
    The Web gets destroyed in Spider-Geddon, and that’s how their watches work.
    Think of it like the airport system being destroyed. You’ve still got the jets, but you need something else to move between cities now.
    A few topics have been covered a bit in the past few days on this thread by other people's perspectives that I agree or disagree with. Lacking the time to post my own views on all of them I'm just select this one (I'll write my thought later due to lack of time) and the 'Venom' one.

    For the Venom one she still has the symbiote/her Earth-65 Venom symbiote on her. However much like how the multiverse can have different versions of character like we wrote before with Gwen the same applies to the 'Venom symbiote' character/individual and the Symbiote/Klyntar species workings in spirit has the same possibilities. When Earth-65 Gwen first had the Earth-65 made symbiote on and the storyline was called 'Gwenom' based on the fan forum nickname (just as her series was called Spider-Gwen based on the fan forum nickname we the fans gave her). Not a alien like 616 version but made to life by science from a couple of things and by the scientist Elsa Brock (616 Eddie Brock female version but now also a scientist and creator of the symbiote and age unknown exactly).

    Also unlike (at the time when it debut on Earth-65) this made symbiote might not have the a higher IQ to make a full conversation and choices like a human might but still has a consciousness and life more in line of a loyal Pet that feels what Gwen feels and assists her while amping her emotions by default while 616 version has/had capabilities to grow and learn into a being that can make a conversation and choice like a human learning from baby to adult but relies HEAVILY on it's hosts/partner/parent to learn and grow in the good or bad sides then makes choices based on what it learned and was directed towards.
    The 'id' being the starting point, than it's developing super-ego, and then ego being the three distinct, yet interacting agents in the psychic apparatus defined in Sigmund Freud's structural model of the psyche. The three parts are the theoretical constructs in terms of whose activity and interaction our mental life is described. According to Freud's model of the psyche, the id is the primitive and instinctual part of the mind that contains sexual and aggressive drives and hidden memories, the super-ego operates as a moral conscience, and the ego is the realistic part that mediates between the desires of the id and the super-ego.

    616 Venom symbiote's 'super-ego' and 'ego' however currently had died (brain dead as they called it) fighting the Symbiote Devil in the Venom series killing it's character and hero movement developments it had made.
    At this time Gwen's own (if giving a name then it's the Earth-65 version Venom symbiote till stated a new name otherwise) symbiote is learning and growing according to Gwen as she trying to teach it be good and responsible and notes her actions and choices and emotions are HER control and choices despite the symbiote by default amping them up she still makes the calls and consequences and can affect it in it's positive growth (this was different from how many Peters would blame all their choices on the symbiote they had on at the time while not knowing the results of a amped emotions like Gwen knows wearing a symbiote she still showed a level of personal responsibility and accounting to her own levels of possible faults which was a thing in the last storyline by Lacour. Her taking responsibility to the growth and character development (and characterization/individualism) of her symbiote and in turn might develop its own Ego and Super-Ego by good parenting by Gwen. In Spider-Gwen Earth-617 Gwen also in time had a symbiote partner and they have a working true partnership and possible showcase to a good developed/growth symbiote Earth-65 Gwen might become in time by Gwen. Right now it cares for Gwen's family and friends like Gwen does and Gwen was challenged by kept self control in prison.

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