Loki: Agent of Asgard #5

[Post Monster]

Yeah, and I would normally agree with you. Mind you, we really haven't seen ALL of Asgardia's reaction to Loki. It's unfair to them when for all we know, most of them are just slightly suspicious of him. And yes, some of the reactions to Loki vs Asgard are a little ridiculous. The fact is, there's plenty of reason to be scared to death of Loki and what he can do, because even if he is only following what destiny has set for him, it can be pretty damn scary. Loki can be scary. We're talking about a man who came up with the most complicated suicide plot ever, only to plan to create another blank copy of himself to kill off his one shot of redemption, and leave that copy to figure things out for themselves; this suicide plot killed lots, and lots of people too. Loki was not a nice person, even if AoA Loki isn't really him, who can't blame the general population of Asgard for being afraid of him.

I whole-heartedly agree that being afraid of Loki is a perfectly reasonable response; it would stupid not to be a little scared of him. But scared doesn't mean doing things to be a jerk and potentially tick him off, bcause if you're scared of him, that just really, really dumb. You want him to be the happy-good Loki who wants to be good.

What a lot of us are sorta bad about, I think, is that this isn't the whole of Asgard doing this to him. This is his mother. Sure, she's queen of a very large population. We understand that. But he's her son. He's her son, and he wasn't asking her as her subject or agent. No, Loki was addressing her as her son. And that's when it starts getting a little hard. Right now he's not the evil sociopath who will destroy the world. He's a sad boy who just wants to be good. But nope, his mother has to crush his dream for "the greater good".

But here's the thing: she's not sacrificing it for the greater good, she's sacrificing it so the insane spirit version of her future son, who happens to be the god of lies that actually created the sword, will tell her "it's all going to be alright". Him telling her means nothing if it's what's going to happen and the possibility he will lie somehow is large; the only thing is she won't have to wonder about it and neither will Asgard. That's what this is: cowardly gods who have gotten happy with their fate and are terrified of freedom. Siege Loki mentioned this back in JMS' run. Freedom is worry and not knowing because you can make choices that have consequences. Asgardians don't need to know the future anymore than a normal person does, they just need to face their fear and get stronger. Coddling them with prophecy is a bad move that infantilizes them, when they need to not be afraid of themselves and their choices.

God of lies creates a sword of truth. Whose truth? The Truth or whoever gets stabbed's truth? Or the truth Loki believes? It was made out of cursed gold. There's more to this sword than just the truth, I guarantee it.

This reminds me of a story called "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula K. Le Guin. In it, Omelas is a beautiful, Utopian society where there is no war, no hunger or strife. Everyone is healthy and perfect and beautiful. Everything is wonderful! Except, this society depends that one person is unhappy. One person, a child, is taken from this happy life and locked in a small, filthy room where they are starved and kept locked away to just be there. If there is no sad, abused child, then the whole world will fall apart. Now, Loki is not a small, abused child, but the idea is still the same here. A single or a small number of people must be kept very unhappy for the sake of the many to be happy. Now, this is really a bad thing, because the needs of the many oftentimes should trump the happiness of the few. However, it's a very uncomfortable idea.

It's an uncomfortable idea because burdens should be shared, not dumped on one person who is made to suffer endlessly. Humans are social creatures who can give each other a lot of strength when they help each other. Basically no man is an island and all that.

[Punisher007]

Wow Freyja's, just wow. That's was nauseatingly detestable of you. Heck at least Odin was open about his dislike/distrust of Kid Loki. You used him and then threw him away like trash, even though he IS desperately trying to change and improved. You deserve whatever horrors will inevitably come your way with old Loki around.

[cosmicjoke21]

I whole-heartedly agree that being afraid of Loki is a perfectly reasonable response; it would stupid not to be a little scared of him. But scared doesn't mean doing things to be a jerk and potentially tick him off, bcause if you're scared of him, that just really, really dumb. You want him to be the happy-good Loki who wants to be good.



But here's the thing: she's not sacrificing it for the greater good, she's sacrificing it so the insane spirit version of her future son, who happens to be the god of lies that actually created the sword, will tell her "it's all going to be alright". Him telling her means nothing if it's what's going to happen and the possibility he will lie somehow is large; the only thing is she won't have to wonder about it and neither will Asgard. That's what this is: cowardly gods who have gotten happy with their fate and are terrified of freedom. Siege Loki mentioned this back in JMS' run. Freedom is worry and not knowing because you can make choices that have consequences. Asgardians don't need to know the future anymore than a normal person does, they just need to face their fear and get stronger. Coddling them with prophecy is a bad move that infantilizes them, when they need to not be afraid of themselves and their choices.

God of lies creates a sword of truth. Whose truth? The Truth or whoever gets stabbed's truth? Or the truth Loki believes? It was made out of cursed gold. There's more to this sword than just the truth, I guarantee it.



It's an uncomfortable idea because burdens should be shared, not dumped on one person who is made to suffer endlessly. Humans are social creatures who can give each other a lot of strength when they help each other. Basically no man is an island and all that.

Yeah, exactly. It was just cruel man. And like Rosebunse also said, if one person has to suffer for the happiness of others, or just even the illusion of happiness, that's a messed up and, in this case, very wrong thing. It's sickeningly unfair. And that his Mom man. And she just betrayed him thoroughly. If he can't trust his Mom, who can he trust? It's sad.

[jazzflower92]

This really goes in stark contrast with her movie version who was probably next to Thor his family member who really loved him the most. Seeing her here as the "All Mother" ready to throw him under the bus is just heartbreaking.

[Rage.Of.Olympus]

I really loved this issue.

It was fun, with a lot of content. I'd feel terrible if this was Kid Loki. Man I miss that incarnation. AOA Loki gets no sympathy from me. The start of his change was with essentially causing a child to commit suicide. He's not fooling me, even left to his own devices, AOA Loki would resort to type sooner or later.

Also, I miss old Loki. Forgot how simpering and weak AOA Loki compared to the true incarnation.

Yeah, Loki might be a liar, cheat, and jerk at times but at least he admits it. On the other hand the other Aesir try to hold themselves as the bastion of moral standards yet have the same character failings as the trickster they all look down upon.

Well, Loki is far far FAR worse than a liar, cheater or jerk. Mass murdering psychopath is more accurate. And as a matter of fact, there have been various times were he's pretended he's the one with the moral high ground because he was untreated unfairly as a child.

Which doesn't even make sense. Odin did his to treat Loki as his real son, an equal to Thor, and Loki's idea of being slightest was not being as popular as Thor or as loved as Balder. Which of course means he gets to try and kill/torture/destroy them since they could walk.

...................

Compared to Loki, the other Asgardians are the bastions of morality.

[Punisher007]

This really goes in stark contrast with her movie version who was probably next to Thor his family member who really loved him the most. Seeing her here as the "All Mother" ready to throw him under the bus is just heartbreaking.

Crap, I was going to mention that and completely forgot. Frigga in the movies is this strong, yet also kind, compassionate, and understanding women. Heck, she's the only person in Asgard who still truly loves Loki and believes in him, and the reverse is true as well.

[Punisher007]

I really loved this issue.

It was fun, with a lot of content. I'd feel terrible if this was Kid Loki. Man I miss that incarnation. AOA Loki gets no sympathy from me. The start of his change was with essentially causing a child to commit suicide. He's not fooling me, even left to his own devices, AOA Loki would resort to type sooner or later.

Also, I miss old Loki. Forgot how simpering and weak AOA Loki compared to the true incarnation.



Well, Loki is far far FAR worse than a liar, cheater or jerk. Mass murdering psychopath is more accurate. And as a matter of fact, there have been various times were he's pretended he's the one with the moral high ground because he was untreated unfairly as a child.

Which doesn't even make sense. Odin did his to treat Loki as his real son, an equal to Thor, and Loki's idea of being slightest was not being as popular as Thor or as loved as Balder. Which of course means he gets to try and kill/torture/destroy them since they could walk.

...................

Compared to Loki, the other Asgardians are the bastions of morality.

Hardly. Heck Odin has done as many terrible things as Loki has, if not more so. And his motives haven't always been so clearly noble either. He did ultimately favor Thor at the end of the day, so Loki's fall is at least partially his fault.

[cosmicjoke21]

Well, the thing IS, present Loki is basically as much a victim as his child self was, since he was pre-programmed to act out the original Loki's plans. He didn't have a choice in the matter, really. And he's now consumed by guilt over it. I don't get people who say Loki is just an evil jerkwad who deserves no sympathy, while at the same time lamenting the loss of Kid Loki and decrying present Loki as a simpering wimp who underneath it all is pure evil. The fact that Kid Loki even existed is proof enough that Loki has good in his heart, as does the existence of present Loki, who's burdened with guilt and regret and remorse for a crime he was programmed to commit against, well, himself. Both Kid Loki and present Loki are ASPECTS of Loki. There's only one Loki, and both of them were fragments of the overall being. I'd say, from that alone, Loki has more than just a little good in his heart. His way of going about things is utterly different than the other Asgardians, he's a trickster and relies on his mind and cunning to accomplish things, rather than brute strength and power. Thor's own words in this issue reflect just what the other gods think of that. They think is lowly and cowardly. But those are Loki's strengths, and he gets labelled as dastardly and cowardly and villainous because of it.

Also, man, what, because the present Loki actually feels things and is troubled by his past wrong doing, he's suddenly a wimp? All I've seen from him so far is bad-assery. He's taken on the Avengers, Sigurd, Lorellie, freakin' Maphisto etc... And come out ahead of the game on all counts.

[Sprite]

Well, the thing IS, present Loki is basically as much a victim as his child self was, since he was pre-programmed to act out the original Loki's plans. He didn't have a choice in the matter, really. And he's now consumed by guilt over it. I don't get people who say Loki is just an evil jerkwad who deserves no sympathy, while at the same time lamenting the loss of Kid Loki and decrying present Loki as a simpering wimp who underneath it all is pure evil. The fact that Kid Loki even existed is proof enough that Loki has good in his heart, as does the existence of present Loki, who's burdened with guilt and regret and remorse for a crime he was programmed to commit against, well, himself. Both Kid Loki and present Loki are ASPECTS of Loki. There's only one Loki, and both of them were fragments of the overall being. I'd say, from that alone, Loki has more than just a little good in his heart. His way of going about things is utterly different than the other Asgardians, he's a trickster and relies on his mind and cunning to accomplish things, rather than brute strength and power. Thor's own words in this issue reflect just what the other gods think of that. They think is lowly and cowardly. But those are Loki's strengths, and he gets labelled as dastardly and cowardly and villainous because of it.

Also, man, what, because the present Loki actually feels things and is troubled by his past wrong doing, he's suddenly a wimp? All I've seen from him so far is bad-assery. He's taken on the Avengers, Sigurd, Amora, etc... And come out ahead of the game on all counts.

Exactly. Loki is very much the victim in this situation, especially given his potential for good. Also, current Loki has been all kinds of awesome.

[jazzflower92]

http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Odin_(mythology)

I often find it interesting that its never brought up that Odin was the only Norse god who demanded human sacrifice.

"Instead of dealing with his enemies openly in the way Norse virtues espoused, Odin would often use underhanded trickery or magic to accomplish his goals."

In other words this sounds really not so different from Loki in some ways. Sometimes in fact Odin could be written as the villain in the situation showing that he was not above doing stuff that he shamed the god of mischief for. In other words Odin is a hypocrite.

[sanderling]

At this point, I don't want more woobie Loki with the woobiest parts of the myths... I want him to kick ass... he's at his lowest point here, so I want to see him climb back up, with the trickiest parts of his nature. Okay, though, I want to see some reckoning for what Ikol did to kid Loki... I'm thinking the truth sword through the guts at a crucial point might help that along. Thor is not gonna be impressed if he finds out. I don't think he'll be okay with that at all. He's extremely principled and hot headed. Eventually he may come to terms with it, but I personally hope that's not soon.

I agree with this so much!!! It's time for AOA Loki to leave the myths and old relationships behind him and lie, cheat and steal his way into a new role for himself.

If Thor was having trouble working with Lorelei due to the things she did to him in the past he is really not going to be happy when he finds out about Kid Loki.

[Prof. Aegis]

Well, the thing IS, present Loki is basically as much a victim as his child self was, since he was pre-programmed to act out the original Loki's plans. He didn't have a choice in the matter, really. And he's now consumed by guilt over it. I don't get people who say Loki is just an evil jerkwad who deserves no sympathy, while at the same time lamenting the loss of Kid Loki and decrying present Loki as a simpering wimp who underneath it all is pure evil. The fact that Kid Loki even existed is proof enough that Loki has good in his heart, as does the existence of present Loki, who's burdened with guilt and regret and remorse for a crime he was programmed to commit against, well, himself. Both Kid Loki and present Loki are ASPECTS of Loki. There's only one Loki, and both of them were fragments of the overall being. I'd say, from that alone, Loki has more than just a little good in his heart. His way of going about things is utterly different than the other Asgardians, he's a trickster and relies on his mind and cunning to accomplish things, rather than brute strength and power. Thor's own words in this issue reflect just what the other gods think of that. They think is lowly and cowardly. But those are Loki's strengths, and he gets labelled as dastardly and cowardly and villainous because of it.

Also, man, what, because the present Loki actually feels things and is troubled by his past wrong doing, he's suddenly a wimp? All I've seen from him so far is bad-assery. He's taken on the Avengers, Sigurd, Lorellie, freakin' Maphisto etc... And come out ahead of the game on all counts.

This sums up why I like the current Loki so much! There are many facets to him and even though most of the time we see the villainous side, there is quite a lot of good too, which is only now being shown.

Also, I agree that he is showing compassion and care and many other aspects that we usually don't see, but he is still kicking ass and messing with everyone's minds (including ours). So he is still a force to be reckoned with!

[cosmicjoke21]

This sums up why I like the current Loki so much! There are many facets to him and even though most of the time we see the villainous side, there is quite a lot of good too, which is only now being shown.

Also, I agree that he is showing compassion and care and many other aspects that we usually don't see, but he is still kicking ass and messing with everyone's minds (including ours). So he is still a force to be reckoned with!

Totally. I love this current Loki to bits.

[Rosebunse]

I mean, we do have to agree that even if this Loki wasn't exactly in control of his actions, he did kill a little kid. He killed a little kid and is still technically using his body and the good faith he built up. That deserves some form of punishment, doesn't it? I mean, how long has he known that he's more or less a clone of the original Loki? We know he had a little breakdown over it, but doesn't it seem like he probably knew that before?

Now, the question isn't whether Loki should be punished. He should, and it's very silly to think that he shouldn't. He knew he was doing a bad thing which is why he was trying to go about it covertly. However, when does that punishment stop? When does it become too much? Or can it, given the crime?

[cosmicjoke21]

Well, I would say he's paying for it right now with the weight of the guilt he's feeling, the constant reminders of what he did and never feeling free of that weight. And it's also important to remember that Loki was pre-programmed to act out the entire thing. It was his singular purpose to set his child-self up the way he did, and that complicates the issue of his guilt largely.

But Loki doesn't deserve what happened here, with Freyja throwing him under the bus like that, and lying to him the way she did just to use him and obliterate his own chance at happiness. Everyone hates on Loki for being evil, or bad, or whatever, but when they're the ones who set him up to BECOME that, their hatred becomes nothing but hypocrisy.