Team Sentry vs Team Martian Manhunter

[Anarchist]

The best Sentry could do against Thanos is stalemating him ad infinitum, while Thanos has a chance of shutting down Bob's mind.

[Pendaran]

Certainly of sending him into catatonia.

[Beadle]

Well quite. Physically he's a beast, but he's only ever two steps away from gibbering wreckage.

[The Dork Knight]

You are now saying that an actual magic wishing well distorting reality to make what people want come true in all sorts of odd ways is the same thing as Reed and the Sentry speculating, with the Sentry saying straight up they're likely to never understand what happened.

One of these things never mentions anything about the character getting externally powered up in any way ( the character notes to the contrary that he simply stopped holding back ) but gets thrown out because of other people getting amped and his other showings not matching

The other has the character flat out saying that the cube may have been toying with him , failing to restrain it and having no comparable showing to back it up , and when attempting to harness the cube , getting knocked down by the feedback alone. Even to begin with, he says he feels the cube "pulsating " , sone thing it had clearly not done to this point , before breaking free . The moment the cube actually makes an effort , it breaks free . How hard was the cube even trying ? Was it toying with them , as Sentry suggests

Certainly , given the rest of his career and failure to back that up, the answer seems what he speculated about in the comic .

They are both showings that when compared to the rest of the characters showings and the context and statements involved , fall into a dubious category as regards their credibility

You are now saying that a massive full on blasting engulfing Thanos is the same thing as the cube trying to break free and doing so. At what point in that did the cube blast the crap out of the Sentry instead of break free from being restrained?

so you are saying the cube was trying , but not using its full power then ? So how much power was it using ? What makes it a valid feat ?

[Beadle]

No, I think what he's saying is:
- The cube was trying to ESCAPE Sentry.
- The cube was trying to ATTACK Thanos.

The two are not the same.

(Correct me if I've misinterpreted, Pen.)

[Pendaran]

Again, to be clear, that's a yes, despite the Sentry saying they have no way to understand what happened, some aimless back and forth theorizing lets you ignore an entire showing or say it now has "qualifiers" because a guy who said they'll never understand what happened said "maybe it was this" while bantering with Reed. You are basically saying "I can ignore this part of the scan, but use this part of the scan to ignore the feat."

Certainly , given the rest of his career and failure to back that up, the answer seems what he speculated about in the comic .

The rest of his pretty damn short career where he repeatedly performs at an extremely high scale of power?

Can you explain why you keep ignoring the part where the Sentry himself goes "we will likely never understand what happened" in order to focus on a single line of back and forth speculation to ignore a performance? It's right in the scan, yet you keep ignoring it.

They are both showings that when compared to the rest of the characters showings and the context and statements involved , fall into a dubious category as regards their credibility

You keep saying the words qualifiers and statements involved, while ignoring the statement that qualifies everything they then both say.

so you are saying the cube was trying , but not using its full power then ? So how much power was it using ? What makes it a valid feat ?

Let's see, it happened during the Sentry's very first set of appearances, was in line with how he was presented and treated in them, and fit in just fine with the level of power he would show across multiple incidents afterwards, for a character who basically barely existed on the scale of comics.

And enough power to show that Sentry had a limit called "sentient cube things"

[The Dork Knight]

Nope, since we've actually seen the hammer have limits that have destroyed it to go past before any of the showings you are talking about, and funny you should mention Thanos, who has held his hand out and made a heavily charged up with energy hammer drop right to the ground for such effect as it interacts with, its energies dissipating. So, no, thing has limits just fine to go along with the scale it otherwise functions on.

The hammer is pretty much always sparking with some energy or the other , so no Thanos sure did stop a hammer throw ...a physical attack as opposed to a proper energy attack from the hammer (which Thanos has also shrugged off but got hurt by hammer blow + energy)

[Pendaran]

No, I think what he's saying is:
- The cube was trying to ESCAPE Sentry.
- The cube was trying to ATTACK Thanos.

The two are not the same.

(Correct me if I've misinterpreted, Pen.)

The cube was trying to escape Sentry and the Maker was full on attacking Thanos such that he was entirely engulfed in a giant blast. That the Sentry could only contain a trying to get free cube very briefly and that Thanos couldn't, y'know, handle said full on zorch line up together pretty well for me.

[Pendaran]

The hammer is pretty much always sparking with some energy or the other , so no Thanos sure did stop a hammer throw ...a physical attack as opposed to a proper energy attack from the hammer (which Thanos has also shrugged off but got hurt by hammer blow + energy)

.... you keep doing this thing where you are taking things that happen in comics and just distorting them for reasons I don't fathom whatsoever.

No, here's what actually happened.

Thor takes the time to swing around and charge up the hammer, noting an intent to give Thanos a case of the deads, Thanos does this.

That's not "the hammer is always sparking with energy" (which, there are plenty of times where no, Thor just throws the thing). That's, Thor took the time to generate a charge around the hammer, and then this:

http://postimg.org/image/f8qd9oe5r/

[The Dork Knight]

The cube was trying to escape Sentry and the Maker was full on attacking Thanos such that he was entirely engulfed in a giant blast. That the Sentry could only contain a trying to get free cube very briefly and that Thanos couldn't, y'know, handle said full on zorch line up together pretty well for me.

The cube knocked him down with the feedback alone later

So again, how hard was the cube trying according to you ?

You keep saying that it was only trying to " escape " and not attack Sentry . Why would it not use its full power to escape ?

If it wasn't using its full power, how does that make that a feat ? Surfer has tanked blasts and hits from Tenebrous and Aegis among other just off the top of my head , without dying . Does that mean he is Galactus level too , now ?

[Pendaran]

The cube knocked him down with the feedback alone later

So again, how hard was the cube trying according to you ?

You keep saying that it was only trying to " escape " and not attack Sentry . Why would it not use its full power to escape ?

If it wasn't using its full power, how does that make that a feat ? Surfer has tanked blasts and hits from Tenebrous and Aegis among other just off the top of my head , without dying . Does that mean he is Galactus level too , now ?

Actually, and again as per leaving things out, that was the feedback from Reed's machine as it messed with the cube in this case.

http://postimg.org/image/hbaxe0cu9/

Since you're so keen on statements and qualifiers, you'd think you would note "the feedback from the e-nullifier" being said.

I suppose you might want to say, "no, I meant the time he ran into that force field sort of thing thing", but again, why would you say feedback then? (granted, I would hope you wouldn't, that was instead the Sentry colliding into some kind of manifested thing of the negative zone, but still)

You keep saying that it was only trying to " escape " and not attack Sentry . Why would it not use its full power to escape ?

Why would it doing so knock out the Sentry when it's not attacking him, but busting free of his hold, when your contrasting example to try and ignore it outside of selectively applying statements is the Maker blasting the living hell out of Thanos? Given your standards, I remain pretty okay with viewing these things in equivalency.

The cube wanted to get free. It got free. The Sentry briefly stopped it. The convolutions and selective readings of even a single comics page ("the part where they speculated counts. The part where they say they have no idea what happened does not.") don't make your argument come off as particularly credible for ignoring it. Nor attempting to weigh analogous events in ways that don't bear out.

Surfer has tanked blasts and hits from Tenebrous and Aegis among other just off the top of my head , without dying . Does that mean he is Galactus level too , now ?

The guy who has never been that powerful for the sweeping majority of his presentation/career? Naaah.

Also, it's certainly interesting that you keep falling back on "the Sentry managing to briefly affect a thing, then failing, means he is on the level of that thing". No, it means he is on the level of very briefly standing up to that thing.

[The Dork Knight]

Again, to be clear, that's a yes, despite the Sentry saying they have no way to understand what happened, some aimless back and forth theorizing lets you ignore an entire showing or say it now has "qualifiers" because a guy who said they'll never understand what happened said "maybe it was this" while bantering with Reed. You are basically saying "I can ignore this part of the scan, but use this part of the scan to ignore the feat."

No , I'm saying " this part of the scan says the guy himself has doubts over what happened and how hard it was trying ". I'm saying the feedback alone knocks him down later . I'm saying he doesn't have any performances on that level in his career for it to count

I'm saying the same for WBH. He says he stops holding back , but other people ( Strange for example ) say things like " almost as if someone wished for it . I'm saying that this doesn't jive with his other showings ( in even fewer appearances ) for it to count. And while he doesn't get knocked down by say the sides scatter of energy alone like sentry and the device , people actually get amped via wishes in the story .

So that makes both of them , not usable .

Why exactly are the statements and lack of other feats for sentry being ignored but not for Hulk ?

The rest of his pretty damn short career where he repeatedly performs at an extremely high scale of power?

High scale =/= cosmic cube scale

Can you explain why you keep ignoring the part where the Sentry himself goes "we will likely never understand what happened" in order to focus on a single line of back and forth speculation to ignore a performance? It's right in the scan, yet you keep ignoring it.

I'm not ignoring anything . Just noting that there is reasonable doubt when the performance is a) not replicated b) speculated to be a half assed effort by sentry himself c) the cube knocking him down with its feedback alone when he tries to harness it

You keep saying the words qualifiers and statements involved, while ignoring the statement that qualifies everything they then both say.

The fact that he made the earlier statement in the first place and lacks other feats on that level makes him basically shrugging away (not outright denying ) the explanation something to be ignored

Let's see, it happened during the Sentry's very first set of appearances, was in line with how he was presented and treated in them, and fit in just fine with the level of power he would show across multiple incidents afterwards, for a character who basically barely existed on the scale of comics.

And enough power to show that Sentry had a limit called "sentient cube things"

So a non insane Genis Vell = Thanos too then ?

[The Dork Knight]

Actually, and again as per leaving things out, that was the feedback from Reed's machine as it messed with the cube in this case.

http://postimg.org/image/hbaxe0cu9/

Since you're so keen on statements and qualifiers, you'd think you would note "the feedback from the e-nullifier" being said.

I suppose you might want to say, "no, I meant the time he ran into that force field sort of thing thing", but again, why would you say feedback then? (granted, I would hope you wouldn't, that was instead the Sentry colliding into some kind of manifested thing of the negative zone, but still)

You are accusing me of distorting scans yet in the very page preceding this they explicitly say that the E nullifier is harnessing the cube . The residual feedback from the nullifier then knocks him down , sure

Why would it doing so knock out the Sentry when it's not attacking him, but busting free of his hold, when your contrasting example to try and ignore it outside of selectively applying statements is the Maker blasting the living hell out of Thanos? Given your standards, I remain pretty okay with viewing these things in equivalency.

So the cube wasn't using its full power then . Not even Thanos -one shotting level force . And yet this is the feat you use to say Sentry= Thanos .

The cube wanted to get free. It got free. The Sentry briefly stopped it. The convolutions and selective readings of even a single comics page ("the part where they speculated counts. The part where they say they have no idea what happened does not.") don't make your argument come off as particularly credible for ignoring it. Nor attempting to weigh analogous events in ways that don't bear out.

Jeez its a comic that ends with " maybe it was toying with us " . It's a level not shown through the rest of his career . What's so hard to understand here ?

The guy who has never been that powerful for the sweeping majority of his presentation/career? Naaah.

But the Sentry who hasn't been at cosmic cube levels for the rest of his career gets a free pass ? Okkkkaay ....

Also, it's certainly interesting that you keep falling back on "the Sentry managing to briefly affect a thing, then failing, means he is on the level of that thing". No, it means he is on the level of very briefly standing up to that thing.

Briefly standing up to that thing when it wasn't even at Thanos one shotting levels by your own admission . So how powerful was said thing ? Above the Surfers pay grade ? Based on what ?

[Guy1]

I'm gonna close this temporarily to give it a look over. Hang tight until then guys.