Superman: Lois & Clark Brings Preboot Husband and Wife Back to Main Continuity

[mr_crisp]

This sounds interesting. I was going to pass on this but now I will give it a try.

[mr_crisp]

new 52 superman better? the guy that lets people blackmail him and does nothing about it? suuuuuuure

You've got to be a terrible Superman if somebody can just have the idea of being able to blackmail you and get away with it.

[Tayswift]

Wasn't the ENTIRE point of the reboot, to free up Superman's history??

if by story, you means Marriage. anyway low point on reboot.

Yeah, but that sort of goes against Jurgens's point about this Superman being relatable because of his "rich and deep" history if they ignore half of it on purpose. If anything, it would be the New 52 "mistake" all over and we'll end up with a character whose history we don't know for sure about, meaning we'll still "lack context".
Not that the argument made any sense in the first place ("Ho yeah, our Superman has a rich and deep history....in another universe....that got destroyed.....offscreen.... and they started living in another.....also offscreen....meaning said history is litterally pointless and that the context that would actually be relevant is still lacking").

I don't see your point, jurgens is working on a new book that have to be light on continuity to new readers. I see no point of reference everything that happened on all those years. Besides I don't want chuck austen, new krypton or walking superman references. everything happened, just the marvel approach. Good things stay, but not everything will be heavily referenced.

[mr_crisp]

You know who I hope shows up in this series as an antagonist?

Dominus.

Seeing as his forte was altering Superman's reality (and thus allowing writers a device to pay tribute to various past timelines/incarnations) he would be the perfect nemesis for our timeline displaced Clark and family.

Also...what happened to Post-Crisis Lex after he got sucked into that wormhole at the end of ACTION #900? Could he be somewhere on the Post-Flashpoint world as well? Or hiding out on another Earth? What if finding him is the key to Clark, Lois and Jon getting home?

...and say? Is there a Kenny Braverman on the DC YOU Earth? If so....is he friend...or foe????

A lot of potential is there for some interesting story ideas.

What's sad is that Superman has been drastically changed but Lex Luthor doesn't seem to of been changed.

[Shinomune]

His son is called Jonathan Samuel Kent. His middle name is the name of Lois' late father, Samuel Lane. He's not the same child as the former Superboy. That child, if you recall, was born with an illness. His parents believed he was dead. Jonathan Samuel Kent seems just fine and has survived a full nine years of his life.

And that's why we can't have nice things

[manofsteel1979]

I think Jurgens just ignored the post 2000s continuity.

Which doesn't upset me one bit. If everything post-SUPERMAN #200 was erased from this Superman's backstory,no great loss. Heck i'd almost go back to the character as he was Prior to Loeb and Kelly, even though I immensely enjoyed their early Pre-OUR WORLDS AT WAR run. So...SUPERMAN VOL2 #150? Yeah, that sounds right.

However, I imagine it all still happened. It's just Jurgens won't really spend much time addressing it, which is also OK, IMO.

[manofsteel1979]

What's sad is that Superman has been drastically changed but Lex Luthor doesn't seem to of been changed.

To be fair, Lex is about the ONLY aspect of the Pre-Flashpoint Superman that was actually gotten right over the course of the 2000's. Taking the classic Pre-Crisis Luthor and marrying that to the Post-Crisis Lexcorp version with a little touch of the version from SMALLVILLE makes for the perfect Lex in my opinion.I breathed a sigh of relief they kept that guy around Post-Flashpoint.

[Auguste Dupin]

I don't see your point, jurgens is working on a new book that have to be light on continuity to new readers. I see no point of reference everything that happened on all those years. Besides I don't want chuck austen, new krypton or walking superman references. everything happened, just the marvel approach. Good things stay, but not everything will be heavily referenced.

Which, in this case, is litterally nothing.
Seriously, we're talking about a Superman and a Lois where every one they have ever known has been dead for more than 8 years. Jimmy, Perry, the Kent.....all dead. All of that "rich and deep history" is completely irrelevant.

[misslane]

Which, in this case, is litterally nothing.
Seriously, we're talking about a Superman and a Lois where every one they have ever known has been dead for more than 8 years. Jimmy, Perry, the Kent.....all dead. All of that "rich and deep history" is completely irrelevant.

How so? In the story it's relevant, as it's relevant to the characters. Do they feel their loss? Are they grieving? How do they feel about their counterparts? I genuinely don't understand what you could possibly mean by this. So, when characters die they don't matter to narratives or to the people who loved them anymore? I just watched the new Star Trek movies for the first time recently, and the original Spock is out of his time; yet his history still mattered to him and to the story. People who saw the movie, who didn't know the original Spock, got to feel the weight of that history through the storytelling while people who did know that history got to appreciate it and perhaps more since it referred back to something they knew and loved.

[Sacred Knight]

You've got to be a terrible Superman if somebody can just have the idea of being able to blackmail you and get away with it.

That's a complete dumbing down of the plot. Its not some random dude. Its a highly technologically advanced group specifically in the business of finding out secrets.

[Auguste Dupin]

How so? In the story it's relevant, as it's relevant to the characters. Do they feel their loss? Are they grieving? How do they feel about their counterparts? I genuinely don't understand what you could possibly mean by this. So, when characters die they don't matter to narratives or to the people who loved them anymore? I just watched the new Star Trek movies for the first time recently, and the original Spock is out of his time; yet his history still mattered to him and to the story. People who saw the movie, who didn't know the original Spock, got to feel the weight of that history through the storytelling while people who did know that history got to appreciate it and perhaps more since it referred back to something they knew and loved.

Which is the main difference. When Spock goes back, it's to the past. He's meeting his younger self, interacts with younger versions of his friends. While the Star Trek reboot does end up being an alternate timeline, it does starts out from the same point as his timeline. His storyline mattered because it was relevant to this timeline as well (the bad guy was from his time, after all, and he was the reason it changed in the first place). It actually moved the plot, a plot that was bigger than Prime Spock's struggle to adjust to a new world.
Here, Lois and Clark are from another dimension. The people they meet are not, for all intent and purposes, the ones they knew and interacted with (making their interactions with the original people moot). Not only that, but while Spock did in fact interact with the main cast, here, the whole point is that Lois and Clark go as far as they can from said main cast as possible to rebuild a different life and avoid them. None of what they actually experienced is going to matter beyond the occasional "our world died. That's sad. But it's been 8 years so we're okay now".
Long story short, none of the specifics of what they experienced is going to actually matter, because it won't matter to their actual life here , and I doubt we'll be going much beyond "so I was Superman, I married Lois, and every one we knew and loved died because whatever" ( (Pre Flashpoint Power Girl is a good example. I read her series and I never had a glimpse at her relation with the people beyond "every one I knew and loved died"). Not exactly a compelling use of their "rich and deep history". And those 8 years of living hidden in the main Earth isn't going to help out giving context to how they are now either.

[Last Son of Krypton]

It also makes me wonder exactly who they're trying to appeal to here. I mean, you would assume its pre-Flashpoint Superman fans. Yet their approach is downright ass-backwards. They're basically saying "we're giving you this guy back for a while but we're going to go ahead and change all these things about him." A New 52-esque style costume (which I think is slick personally but isn't really the point, I'm a current continuity fan costume and all so I'm not the target), a changed MO and style, a cluttered up setting; its all ot the point it it makes one wonder what's the point in using this particular version on the first place. Its like a restaurant changing their menu but for a brief period trying to appeal to older patrons by allowing them to order from the old menu...only its not the old menu because they've still altered the contents.

The way I see it, they're tryng to appeal in particular to those who miss the Lois and Clark marriage/relationships and tumblr shippers. Not coincidentally, the series is called Lois & Clark. It's not the first time they're tryng to please this group of fans. Think of the Jon Lane Kent/Superboy thing.

Yeah, but that sort of goes against Jurgens's point about this Superman being relatable because of his "rich and deep" history if they ignore half of it on purpose. If anything, it would be the New 52 "mistake" all over and we'll end up with a character whose history we don't know for sure about, meaning we'll still "lack context".
Not that the argument made any sense in the first place ("Ho yeah, our Superman has a rich and deep history....in another universe....that got destroyed.....offscreen.... and they started living in another.....also offscreen....meaning said history is litterally pointless and that the context that would actually be relevant is still lacking").

From the interviews that Jurgens has done in recent years, he has a clear idea of ​​how Superman should portrayed: he's just a guy who happened to have power and who doesn't give a damn about everything Krypton related. Basically the Byrne's Supes.
So, for Jurgens the post 2000s Superman is to ignore not just for continuity but for the different themes. For example, when Jurgens worked on the New 52 Superman, he said that in his run there wouldn't be elements linked to Krypton as the Fortress of Solitude or the Phantom Zone because Clark is defined by his environment and the Kents, and all that is kryptonian must be out of his life. So he has the tendency to ignore what doesn't fit into his vision of the character.

Which doesn't upset me one bit. If everything post-SUPERMAN #200 was erased from this Superman's backstory,no great loss. Heck i'd almost go back to the character as he was Prior to Loeb and Kelly, even though I immensely enjoyed their early Pre-OUR WORLDS AT WAR run. So...SUPERMAN VOL2 #150? Yeah, that sounds right.

However, I imagine it all still happened. It's just Jurgens won't really spend much time addressing it, which is also OK, IMO.

Like I said to Auguste, It's not just ignoring more than 10 years of continuity, it's having the pre 2000s Byrne's Superman again.

[Tayswift]

Which is the main difference. When Spock goes back, it's to the past. He's meeting his younger self, interacts with younger versions of his friends. While the Star Trek reboot does end up being an alternate timeline, it does starts out from the same point as his timeline. His storyline mattered because it was relevant to this timeline as well (the bad guy was from his time, after all, and he was the reason it changed in the first place). It actually moved the plot, a plot that was bigger than Prime Spock's struggle to adjust to a new world.
Here, Lois and Clark are from another dimension. The people they meet are not, for all intent and purposes, the ones they knew and interacted with (making their interactions with the original people moot). Not only that, but while Spock did in fact interact with the main cast, here, the whole point is that Lois and Clark go as far as they can from said main cast as possible to rebuild a different life and avoid them. None of what they actually experienced is going to matter beyond the occasional "our world died. That's sad. But it's been 8 years so we're okay now".
Long story short, none of the specifics of what they experienced is going to actually matter, because it won't matter to their actual life here , and I doubt we'll be going much beyond "so I was Superman, I married Lois, and every one we knew and loved died because whatever" ( (Pre Flashpoint Power Girl is a good example. I read her series and I never had a glimpse at her relation with the people beyond "every one I knew and loved died"). Not exactly a compelling use of their "rich and deep history". And those 8 years of living hidden in the main Earth isn't going to help out giving context to how they are now either.

the difference from powergirl pre-flashpoint and loisandclark now is that we saw superman and lois interacting with the supporting cast. It's not a simply "everyone I know died", we really saw that happening. It's better than new 52 superman with 5 years that we simply doesn't know what happened exactly.
now the problem of the book is that all the supporting characters, everything they know is gone.

The way I see it, they're tryng to appeal in particular to those who miss the Lois and Clark marriage/relationships and tumblr shippers. Not coincidentally, the series is called Lois & Clark. It's not the first time they're tryng to please this group of fans. Think of the Jon Lane Kent/Superboy thing.

Superboy definately has nothing to do with pleasing superman/lois fans. It had not affect on the ship,it was actually awful for the ship since their son was a villain that died.

The fact that it appeals to lois and clark shippers is accidental, the reason DC gave it a chance is because majority of new books are doing badly and superman books are above 30k mark. It's a lot safer than launch another prez or amega men type of books.
DC just doesn't care for laisnad clark shippes, specially from tumblr. DC could just put lois and clark from new 52 together, without turning continuity into a mess. it sounds like fanservice and that is what lois and clark doesn't need to exist, at least on a good DC comics company

From the interviews that Jurgens has done in recent years, he has a clear idea of ​​how Superman should portrayed: he's just a guy who happened to have power and who doesn't give a damn about everything Krypton related. Basically the Byrne's Supes.
So, for Jurgens the post 2000s Superman is to ignore not just for continuity but for the different themes. For example, when Jurgens worked on the New 52 Superman, he said that in his run there wouldn't be elements linked to Krypton as the Fortress of Solitude or the Phantom Zone because Clark is defined by his environment and the Kents, and all that is kryptonian must be out of his life. So he has the tendency to ignore what doesn't fit into his vision of the character.

He is kind of right, but if there is fortress of solitude and phanto zone projector as tools, it can be used on stories. Sure it won't be a tool for his book because superman doesn't has it anymore

[misslane]

Which is the main difference. When Spock goes back, it's to the past. He's meeting his younger self, interacts with younger versions of his friends. While the Star Trek reboot does end up being an alternate timeline, it does starts out from the same point as his timeline. His storyline mattered because it was relevant to this timeline as well (the bad guy was from his time, after all, and he was the reason it changed in the first place). It actually moved the plot, a plot that was bigger than Prime Spock's struggle to adjust to a new world.
Here, Lois and Clark are from another dimension. The people they meet are not, for all intent and purposes, the ones they knew and interacted with (making their interactions with the original people moot). Not only that, but while Spock did in fact interact with the main cast, here, the whole point is that Lois and Clark go as far as they can from said main cast as possible to rebuild a different life and avoid them. None of what they actually experienced is going to matter beyond the occasional "our world died. That's sad. But it's been 8 years so we're okay now".
Long story short, none of the specifics of what they experienced is going to actually matter, because it won't matter to their actual life here , and I doubt we'll be going much beyond "so I was Superman, I married Lois, and every one we knew and loved died because whatever" ( (Pre Flashpoint Power Girl is a good example. I read her series and I never had a glimpse at her relation with the people beyond "every one I knew and loved died"). Not exactly a compelling use of their "rich and deep history". And those 8 years of living hidden in the main Earth isn't going to help out giving context to how they are now either.

Actually, Jurgens has said in interviews that Superman's knowledge of past experiences will matter. For example, in what he's doing to stop villains he knows from his own battles. And until you read the story, you don't know that their knowledge and feelings from their past lives and interactions won't matter.

[Lokimaru]

Actually, Jurgens has said in interviews that Superman's knowledge of past experiences will matter. For example, in what he's doing to stop villains he knows from his own battles. And until you read the story, you don't know that their knowledge and feelings from their past lives and interactions won't matter.

So he's denying Present Superman Growth (Slow Claps way to go Copy-man.) I say Copy-Man because this guy is Basicly a Back up Copy of Something that was not Deleted but Overwritten. Current Superman IS pre-flashpoint Superman Just with an Update and like with Updates he comes with a Changelog (Younger , Brasher, likes Amazons, ETC.). This "New" Superman is the old Program backup if allowed to continue unchanged then imported into the New Computer sans Update. And it's not even Windows 7, It's more like... Here comes Windows XP again.