Superman: Lois & Clark Brings Preboot Husband and Wife Back to Main Continuity

[Last Son of Krypton]

That face... that beard... he looks familiar. Of course, he is Gen. Zod pretending to be the pre-Flashpoint Superman.
What a twist!

[Sacred Knight]

It won't depend on anything. The current Superman is the Superman, end of story. The characters in this book are now solidly in the role of alternates. Sure we can say that if this book happened to sell beyond Batman levels that it might get people thinking. But that's not going to happen so its not really worth pondering.

[misslane]

Anyway, the interview still makes this seem pretty bad. Not buying a Superman, even the watered down pre-Flashpoint version, not acting in light of some of this Earths greatest disasters, secrecy or no. Just still sounds like a terrible, terrible idea to place them on the main Earth. Its gonna be a mess. On the plus side the art looks pretty good, and Jonathan carrying firewood with the Krypto look-alike was very cute. Its just too bad they had such poor foresight and screwed up the idea from conception.

You keep saying stuff like this and I still have no clue where you're getting the idea that Superman is going to be presented as inactive. Jurgens has repeatedly made it very clear that this Superman has been doing things of his own, because he has his own mission. This is what has been said on the matter:

Following the epic events of CONVERGENCE, here are the adventures of the last sons and daughter of the Krypton and Earth as they try to survive in a world not their own. But can they keep this world from suffering the same fate as their own? Can this Superman stop the villains he once fought before they are created on this world? What is Intergang, and why does Lois’s discovery of it place everyone she loves in jeopardy? What will happen when their nine-year-old son learns the true identity of his parents? Make way for the original power couple, for better, for worse, in sickness and in health, until death do them part!

Aspects of the past that influence them now are often determined by the villains Superman faced. He knows who they are and, in many cases, has been working in secret to ferret them out.

While we learn what exactly this strange new Superman has been up to during his time on this Earth, Lois is targeted by a deadly organization that calls itself…Intergang! Plus: Jon, the son of Lois and Clark, is starting to wonder about his parents’ true origins.

Unlike the hundred-plus Superman issues Jurgens wrote and/or drew in the '80s and '90s, he and artist Lee Weeks will be taking the Kent Family into the post-Flashpoint world, where that Superman has been secretly living for nine years on an as-yet-undisclosed mission, raising his family looking on in wonder at the strange world around him. And it is how they live on this world.

They have been monitoring events, Superman has been doing stuff behind the scenes and had a very active role all along.

Based on these comments, this Superman has had his own mission from day one of his arrival. Part of that mission seems to be preventing problems his younger counterpart isn't even aware of. Since there is still some mystery about the exact details, we can't even know yet if there won't be a montage explaining what this Superman was doing during the crises his counterpart was dealing with. Maybe he helped prevent collateral damage on the streets with the people, for example. Maybe he's been doing the vigilante thing in secret like Superman typically does before he goes public. We simply don't know yet, and part of the reason people should buy the book is to find out answers to these questions. I think that's what is so great about this concept. It does raise a lot of questions and is such a unique scenario that, despite concerns, it has the potential to be a very interesting and provocative read.

And Jurgens mentions the events of Truth and the reveal of Superman's identity like its some terrible thing for the family. Why? If they're in hiding under assumed names, how does that affect them at all? The only way it possibly could is if they were stupid enough to actually go by their real names. So the choice seems to be between plot contrivance (oh boy, this world's Superman has been outed, that's bad news for us for...reasons?); or turning your characters into morons and inexplicably having them go by their true names thus asking for the problem.

I don't think they are using the same names. I can't recall where I read it (maybe it's wishful thinking?) but I believe part of the story is that during the nine year period on Earth-0, Lois published books anonymously or with a pseudonym. I feel very confident that they won't be using the exact same names. Perhaps the issue is that the secret identity reveal made people angry with Superman, and more open to the idea that Superman could disguise himself, so they feel they have to be extra cautious.

[misslane]

Yeah I'm sure Supes was happy to name his kid after the man who murdered 100,000 of his people then commited suicide to keep from being brought to justice.

First, the name could be an important family name that goes back further than General Sam Lane. Second, Lois' sister Lucy had a son (now gone with Flashpoint and Convergence) whose name was Samuel. I can't fault Lois for wanting to honor her own family in her son's name, and perhaps she did it in the hopes that her son will redeem the name and spite her father with it given he's Sam Lane's worst nightmare: an alien/human hybrid son. It also reminds me of Harry Potter's naming his son Albus Severus. Despite their questionable actions, those men meant something to Harry. I think it's fine.

[Last Son of Krypton]

First, the name could be an important family name that goes back further than General Sam Lane. Second, Lois' sister Lucy had a son (now gone with Flashpoint and Convergence) whose name was Samuel. I can't fault Lois for wanting to honor her own family in her son's name, and perhaps she did it in the hopes that her son will redeem the name and spite her father with it given he's Sam Lane's worst nightmare: an alien/human hybrid son. It also reminds me of Harry Potter's naming his son Albus Severus. Despite their questionable actions, those men meant something to Harry. I think it's fine.

I think Jurgens just ignored the post 2000s continuity.

[Sacred Knight]

You keep saying stuff like this and I still have no clue where you're getting the idea that Superman is going to be presented as inactive. Jurgens has repeatedly made it very clear that this Superman has been doing things of his own, because he has his own mission. This is what has been said on the matter:

Because without retcons the pre-Flashpoint Superman wasn't at any of these events. That's where I get that he was inactive. Sure Jurgens talks of him doing covert things during that time, but that reeks of a reach to me, and sounds very out of character. Superman doesn't "monitor". Superman doesn't do "behind the scenes". Superman fights. So its a contradiction to say those things then say he was very active. Then you run into the problem of how important can you make covert operations be here without making the current superheroes who were front and center look incompetent? There is no good answer. He also made it clear that this Superman's biggest priority is secrecy, which also does not rub well with me. When you have to make all these concessions because of a setting, then you're in the wrong setting. You put this story somewhere else, ANYWHERE else, and all these problems go away. And you also get a new world to write on top of new adventures for these characters. It just blows my mind that they went with the most restricting and problematic route, and probably the least interesting from a world POV as well.

[Flash Gordon]

Jurgens: I think this Superman will appeal to readers because he has a rich and deep history.

One of the things readers have wrestled with, in terms of the "New 52," is that, by starting five years into the universe, they often felt as if the characters lacked context. While some of that freed writers to take characters in new directions, it also meant there could be a lack of understanding about who the characters are and how they relate to one another.

These characters have a past that is essential to the characters they are now, just as our pasts are essential to who we are. That’s what forms their character.

Wasn't the ENTIRE point of the reboot, to free up Superman's history??

[misslane]

Wasn't the ENTIRE point of the reboot, to free up Superman's history??

But they're not rebooting, so it's not as if DC is saying that Jurgens Superman is now the new Superman, so I don't get your gripe. They're just bringing Superman with history into a new universe. It's not like all of his past is going to be relevant and present in every issue. Rather, those who don't know that history will get to know it as it's revealed based on what's relevant for a given story, while those who know his history can enjoy subtle or explicit callbacks relevant to the story. Plus, the history that Jurgens is saying was missing in the New 52 was details from that five year gap with young Superman where we didn't get to see a lot of his relationship and world building.

[misslane]

Because without retcons the pre-Flashpoint Superman wasn't at any of these events. That's where I get that he was inactive. Sure Jurgens talks of him doing covert things during that time, but that reeks of a reach to me, and sounds very out of character. Superman doesn't "monitor". Superman doesn't do "behind the scenes". Superman fights. So its a contradiction to say those things then say he was very active. Then you run into the problem of how important can you make covert operations be here without making the current superheroes who were front and center look incompetent? There is no good answer. He also made it clear that this Superman's biggest priority is secrecy, which also does not rub well with me. When you have to make all these concessions because of a setting, then you're in the wrong setting. You put this story somewhere else, ANYWHERE else, and all these problems go away. And you also get a new world to write on top of new adventures for these characters. It just blows my mind that they went with the most restricting and problematic route, and probably the least interesting from a world POV as well.

Doing things behind the scenes isn't monitoring. When Jurgens says monitoring, it's implied that he's been doing superheroics behind the scenes and doing that stuff behind the scenes doesn't imply not fighting. It literally means monitoring the situation and helping in the best way he is able. I also don't think Jurgens is implying that the superheroes of the New 52 universe are incompetent. Jurgens is quite clear that the reason his Superman is able to tackle the things he does is by virtue of his prior knowledge. Finally, the concessions you bemoan because of the setting aren't concessions at all. They are what make the challenges these characters face novel and interesting as opposed to the same old stories in the same old universe.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about whether this is restrictive and problematic, because one can even look at Truth to see that limitations like having so much of what one associates with traditional Superman stripped away can limit familiar stories from being told, but it can also create new sources of drama and conflict as well as new freedoms to explore things with Superman that couldn't have been done in other settings. Moreover, by placing these characters in the current universe it makes it feel more relevant rather than some sideshow going on in the Superman line. You set something on random Earth whatever, and you have to do a lot of world building and worry about getting people to care if it's not a world that's relevant or has any impact on current continuity.

This story has stakes and relevance, and has a world that readers are already familiar with, making it easier for them to jump in to the story. So, yeah, agree to disagree. I think there's a lot of potential for some compelling and fresh stories featuring a beloved heroic family in a new world with this set up. Exciting!

[Agent Z]

Bah you only like it cause he's with Lois, To me it's an identity thing. How would you feel if there was another version of You running around? This is Post Flashpoint Superman's world, the Pre-Flashpoint guy had his chance. Hell weren't people on this board Championing Old Superman ("The True Superman") over him not to long ago during Infinite Crises? You guys are too much.

Didn't seem to bother Supergirl when Power Girl was around. Hell, Clark already dealt with this regarding Conner.

[Flash Gordon]

But they're not rebooting, so it's not as if DC is saying that Jurgens Superman is now the new Superman, so I don't get your gripe. They're just bringing Superman with history into a new universe. It's not like all of his past is going to be relevant and present in every issue. Rather, those who don't know that history will get to know it as it's revealed based on what's relevant for a given story, while those who know his history can enjoy subtle or explicit callbacks relevant to the story. Plus, the history that Jurgens is saying was missing in the New 52 was details from that five year gap with young Superman where we didn't get to see a lot of his relationship and world building.

Just seems like needless clutter. The character could easily have his own Earth, and even cross over with our Superman from time to time.

[Agent Z]

Because without retcons the pre-Flashpoint Superman wasn't at any of these events. That's where I get that he was inactive. Sure Jurgens talks of him doing covert things during that time, but that reeks of a reach to me, and sounds very out of character. Superman doesn't "monitor". Superman doesn't do "behind the scenes". Superman fights. So its a contradiction to say those things then say he was very active. Then you run into the problem of how important can you make covert operations be here without making the current superheroes who were front and center look incompetent? There is no good answer. He also made it clear that this Superman's biggest priority is secrecy, which also does not rub well with me. When you have to make all these concessions because of a setting, then you're in the wrong setting. You put this story somewhere else, ANYWHERE else, and all these problems go away. And you also get a new world to write on top of new adventures for these characters. It just blows my mind that they went with the most restricting and problematic route, and probably the least interesting from a world POV as well.

Fighting is fighting, regardless of if it's done behind the scenes or out in the open.

[Sacred Knight]

There are different ways of fighting. If I want a guy fighting in the shadows I know where to go and its not Superman. It also makes me wonder exactly who they're trying to appeal to here. I mean, you would assume its pre-Flashpoint Superman fans. Yet their approach is downright ass-backwards. They're basically saying "we're giving you this guy back for a while but we're going to go ahead and change all these things about him." A New 52-esque style costume (which I think is slick personally but isn't really the point, I'm a current continuity fan costume and all so I'm not the target), a changed MO and style, a cluttered up setting; its all ot the point it it makes one wonder what's the point in using this particular version on the first place. Its like a restaurant changing their menu but for a brief period trying to appeal to older patrons by allowing them to order from the old menu...only its not the old menu because they've still altered the contents.

[Auguste Dupin]

I think Jurgens just ignored the post 2000s continuity.

Yeah, but that sort of goes against Jurgens's point about this Superman being relatable because of his "rich and deep" history if they ignore half of it on purpose. If anything, it would be the New 52 "mistake" all over and we'll end up with a character whose history we don't know for sure about, meaning we'll still "lack context".
Not that the argument made any sense in the first place ("Ho yeah, our Superman has a rich and deep history....in another universe....that got destroyed.....offscreen.... and they started living in another.....also offscreen....meaning said history is litterally pointless and that the context that would actually be relevant is still lacking").

[Cipher]

I do want to give credit to the fact that, from that cover, this Superman is very visually the Post-Crisis version, as opposed to the current one.

On that note, am I the only one whose always hated the super-low-shirt, huge-trapezius, really-square-jaw look?