NuMarvel....

[zinderel]

I actually think Marvel's doing a lot of really interesting stuff. And it's stuff that, frankly, should appeal to most long-time fans. Marvel's putting out books that plenty of people on here have been wanting for a while. Of course, those books will fail, because recent history has shown that the old fans are full of shit when it comes to what they want to see. People said they wanted Marvel to do a horror book, and then they've refused to support the last couple Ghost Rider series, or the Morbius series, and you can bet your ass they won't support Howling Commandos, or Weirdworld, or Black Knight.

Beyond that, though, Marvel is putting out a hugely diverse range of titles. You like big epic cosmic action? Ultimates has you covered. You want classic Avengers stuff? ANAD Avengers is what you need. You want something funny? Squirrel Girl. You want something dark and creepy? Carnage is probably going to go there. You want martial arts weirdness? Karnak will be all the martial arts weirdness you can handle. You're a fan of Westerns? There's good odds on 1872 continuing. You want a book that looks gorgeous? Angela, Old Man Logan and Weirdworld, the books with Marvel's top 3 artists (Stephanie Hans, Andrea Sorrentino, Mike Del Mundo). High school superhero? Ms. Marvel. College superhero? Starbrand and Nightmask.

Seriously, take a look at what they have. If you can't find at least 6 books that you're not excited about, then it's because you do not want to be excited. If there's nothing in the list making you say, "Holy shit, that looks like it'll be amazing, I am so psyched for that" - then quite frankly, the problem is with you, not Marvel.

My pull list will be smaller than it was. That's not because I have any problem with ANAD Marvel. I've still got a dozen titles on my pull list, and not everything's been revealed yet so that may still grow. But it comes down to my own taste. There's a lot of books on there that I think look like they'll be great, but which just aren't my thing. All-New Hawkeye is going to be an excellent book, but I won't be picking it up, because my own, personal tastes are different from what the book will be doing.

And as far as Marvel not hiring top-notch writers goes, that's bullshit. Absolute, 100% Grade-A bullshit. Marvel has a ton of fantastic writers. Mark Waid, Charles Soule, Al Ewing, Warren Ellis, Nick Spencer, G. Willow Wilson, Marguerite Bennett, Jeff Lemire, Jason Aaron, Peter David, Sam Humphries, Greg Pak, and more. They may not be the writers you've come to enjoy the past few years, but so what? When Jonathan Hickman first started at Marvel, I'm sure their were complaints about him not being Kurt Busiek. And Busiek had to deal with not being Roy Thomas. And Roy Thomas got flack for not being Stan Lee. They all proved themselves, so why the hell are you so unwilling to let the amazingly talented creators working at Marvel do the same? I'm disappointed at Kelly Sue DeConnick leaving Marvel, but I'm excited to see what Butters and Fazekas bring to Captain Marvel, and I'm excited to see G. Willow Wilson writing two books. Kieron Gillen's gone, but I've got Al Ewing filling the niche of Clever And Hilarious British Writer. And in a few years, these writers will take a break from Marvel, and I'll be excited about the new talent rising behind them.

Because that's how it's supposed to work. The Old Guard make way for the New Guard, who grow to become the Old Guard themselves. There must always be room for fresh new talent. Saying that Marvel should just do whatever they can to keep the same talent eternally is just ridiculous. Aside from the fact that it assumes the creators have no actual ambitions of their own beyond "be given money," it does a huge disservice to new creators, by saying they should have fewer opportunities to actually be given a break.

To hell with that. I'm glad that so many creators have recently left Marvel, because it's giving other creators the opportunity to step up and prove themselves. And if you're not willing to give those creators a chance, then once again, that's entirely on you, not Marvel. And if you're going to refuse to give those creators a chance while calling yourself an "old-school fan," then to be blunt, you're a really shitty fan.

This. Tiamatty, I haven't always agreed with you (though I've always found your posts to be informative and entertaining), but in this, I think you are 1000% correct. I wish I could QFT this whole post, and I hope you don't mind if I read you verbatim to the whiners at my LCS. *High Five*

[aja_christopher]

Well, some of these indie hipsters gave us Civil War, Winter Soldier, Infinity and the only brand new Marvel concept and team in Runaways that happens to be one of the considered projects for the MCU in the future, so I feel Marvel is shooting themselves in the foot for not drawing them back to the fold, aka paying their worth.

Funny you should say that...

Going back and re-reading the Runaways books I now realize the book was not all that well written -- especially towards the end of the run. The failure of Alex's "plan" is remarkably ridiculous in the way that it falls apart panel by panel -- all that build up for such a dull climax. In retrospect, I realize that it was the diversity of the team that drew me in, just as with the X-Men and the New Mutants.

An intelligent black gamer playing an MMORPG and living a comfortable upper-middle class life? Very contemporary. An Asian-American Catholic goth-girl witch with an attitude and a bold sense of style? Well done. A vegan alien lesbian girl who becomes attracted to said team leader, who is straight? Interesting dynamic.

Molly and Chase I found relatively boring, and while Victor had potential, his handling was pedestrian at best.

Though the plot twist was a good one, I think that book would have benefitted greatly from keeping Alex around and either replacing or revamping Chase, "maturing" Molly beyond being a brat and leaving Klara completely out of the picture.

It was the diversity (and the art) that initially got me interested in this book but ultimately the continuity and development didn't live up to the original premise.

[The Fn Man]

So some are on board while others are not. I never said anything about the talent, Marvel has that in spades. Yes,the new crop of young writers should be given a chance to grow. But you don't see them on any of the Big Name titles. My pull list for Marvel currently sits at three, where it was at 10-15. I never said I was leaving Marvel, but many of my friends are.

[judaspaladin]

When the pseudo reboot was first announced I'll admit it: I was beyond pissed but as more information as came out I became more and more optimistic. A lot of the new titles look amazing; New and Uncanny Avengers, Ultimates, Black Knight -a freaking BK SOLO!-, Extraordinary X-Men, and many others certainly have the potential. I hope they all do well and I hope ANAD succeeds in bringing in new readers which the industry desperately needs to survive. In short I'm excited for the future!

[Mike]

So far nothing that Marvel as announced has been of any interest to me.
Then again I haven't cared for what Marvel has been doing for quite sometime.
There's always the back issues.

[classicgmer]

For me I'm not all that particularly excited about All New Marvel Now as of yet. (I mean there are still some more titles yet to come) There are some titles I'll probably get like Dr Strange, Illuminati, Uncanny Avengers & maybe Invincible Iron Man & Weirdworld but that's about it.


Personally I think the Avengers group books are looking to be the weakest they've been in years (based on concept not quality of creative teams) Also this whole "Youth Movement" kick Marvel is on isn't really for me..Not saying there aren't people out there who won't like those books featuring Marvel's younger characters but it's definitely not going to be drawing me in anytime soon.


All in all I don't find ANAD Marvel to be horrid just extremely average & underwhelming based on the concepts they've put out.

[Marvel/DC Fan]

Some of it will be good, some of it will be bad just like any other re-launch they have had.

[Xalfrea]

Exactly. Everything will have their ups and downs.

For crying out loud, some folks are already declaring ANAD on arrival and want to restart the patient with a freaking TARDIS. Give the freaking line a chance!

[Midnight_v]

How funny - I just mentioned how Secret Wars has provided me a "Jump Off" point after collecting Marvel Comics over 30 years...

I feel the same way. The last book of theirs I was reading was Moonknight.

On another note: I'm amazed at how people can lambast others on this board for not trying new books, and then say "I'm not going to be buying as many new books" I think it was Tiamat or whatever but thats a very odd thing to think about, after all the talk on these threads about "voting" with your dollars.

Nu-Marvel is just not for me, If find the desire to minoritize as many brands as possible, intellectually insulting. Ironically though? I really WOULD have read Sunspots avengers from the hickman line, it was really an interesting team (even though they HAD to slip POD, a token lgbt character on) it was really interesting to see where these guys might go.
To the Op: I had a 80-100 dollar a month comics budget.
I'm looking at Dc now but its...pretty bad over there too but for different reasons.

[Tiamatty]

On another note: I'm amazed at how people can lambast others on this board for not trying new books, and then say "I'm not going to be buying as many new books" I think it was Tiamat or whatever but thats a very odd thing to think about, after all the talk on these threads about "voting" with your dollars.

The fact that my pull list has shrunk means I actually will be picking up a couple titles I otherwise probably wouldn't. But a lot of what I'll be buying will still be books I expect to be underdogs.

But the main reason for my pull list shrinking is actually because I'm primarily an X-Men fan, and the X-Men line will be smaller. And most of the will be books I can't buy - Greg Land is on UXM, so it's out; I refuse to forgive Hopeless for Avengers Arena, so ANXM is out; I hate Wolverine, so Old Man Logan is out; I'm just not enough of a fan to support Laura's solo. So I'm losing a lot of X-Men stuff. (No, I'm not saying Marvel is trying to destroy the X-Men, so don't go there.)

(even though they HAD to slip POD, a token lgbt character on

Oh, hell. Token? Come on.Hickman created a character. He decided to make her LGBT, because there was absolutely no goddamn reason not to make her LGBT. She made more sense as part of Sunspot's team than anywhere else. She wasn't a "token." Just because a book has an LGBT character in the cast doesn't mean they're a "token." That's just stupid.

[cyberhubbs]

I think because there's a difference between not finding titles that interest you and accepting that and not finding titles that interest you and therefore concluding that Marvel is dead to you and nothing will ever be the sameohmygod.

[Dr. Banner]

I actually think Marvel's doing a lot of really interesting stuff. And it's stuff that, frankly, should appeal to most long-time fans. Marvel's putting out books that plenty of people on here have been wanting for a while. Of course, those books will fail, because recent history has shown that the old fans are full of shit when it comes to what they want to see. People said they wanted Marvel to do a horror book, and then they've refused to support the last couple Ghost Rider series, or the Morbius series, and you can bet your ass they won't support Howling Commandos, or Weirdworld, or Black Knight.

Beyond that, though, Marvel is putting out a hugely diverse range of titles. You like big epic cosmic action? Ultimates has you covered. You want classic Avengers stuff? ANAD Avengers is what you need. You want something funny? Squirrel Girl. You want something dark and creepy? Carnage is probably going to go there. You want martial arts weirdness? Karnak will be all the martial arts weirdness you can handle. You're a fan of Westerns? There's good odds on 1872 continuing. You want a book that looks gorgeous? Angela, Old Man Logan and Weirdworld, the books with Marvel's top 3 artists (Stephanie Hans, Andrea Sorrentino, Mike Del Mundo). High school superhero? Ms. Marvel. College superhero? Starbrand and Nightmask.

Seriously, take a look at what they have. If you can't find at least 6 books that you're not excited about, then it's because you do not want to be excited. If there's nothing in the list making you say, "Holy shit, that looks like it'll be amazing, I am so psyched for that" - then quite frankly, the problem is with you, not Marvel.

My pull list will be smaller than it was. That's not because I have any problem with ANAD Marvel. I've still got a dozen titles on my pull list, and not everything's been revealed yet so that may still grow. But it comes down to my own taste. There's a lot of books on there that I think look like they'll be great, but which just aren't my thing. All-New Hawkeye is going to be an excellent book, but I won't be picking it up, because my own, personal tastes are different from what the book will be doing.

And as far as Marvel not hiring top-notch writers goes, that's bullshit. Absolute, 100% Grade-A bullshit. Marvel has a ton of fantastic writers. Mark Waid, Charles Soule, Al Ewing, Warren Ellis, Nick Spencer, G. Willow Wilson, Marguerite Bennett, Jeff Lemire, Jason Aaron, Peter David, Sam Humphries, Greg Pak, and more. They may not be the writers you've come to enjoy the past few years, but so what? When Jonathan Hickman first started at Marvel, I'm sure their were complaints about him not being Kurt Busiek. And Busiek had to deal with not being Roy Thomas. And Roy Thomas got flack for not being Stan Lee. They all proved themselves, so why the hell are you so unwilling to let the amazingly talented creators working at Marvel do the same? I'm disappointed at Kelly Sue DeConnick leaving Marvel, but I'm excited to see what Butters and Fazekas bring to Captain Marvel, and I'm excited to see G. Willow Wilson writing two books. Kieron Gillen's gone, but I've got Al Ewing filling the niche of Clever And Hilarious British Writer. And in a few years, these writers will take a break from Marvel, and I'll be excited about the new talent rising behind them.

Because that's how it's supposed to work. The Old Guard make way for the New Guard, who grow to become the Old Guard themselves. There must always be room for fresh new talent. Saying that Marvel should just do whatever they can to keep the same talent eternally is just ridiculous. Aside from the fact that it assumes the creators have no actual ambitions of their own beyond "be given money," it does a huge disservice to new creators, by saying they should have fewer opportunities to actually be given a break.

To hell with that. I'm glad that so many creators have recently left Marvel, because it's giving other creators the opportunity to step up and prove themselves. And if you're not willing to give those creators a chance, then once again, that's entirely on you, not Marvel. And if you're going to refuse to give those creators a chance while calling yourself an "old-school fan," then to be blunt, you're a really shitty fan.

I couldn't have said better (there's Gerry Duggan too!).

[Midnight_v]

Oh, hell. Token? Come on.Hickman created a character. He decided to make her LGBT, because there was absolutely no goddamn reason not to make her LGBT. She made more sense as part of Sunspot's team than anywhere else. She wasn't a "token." Just because a book has an LGBT character in the cast doesn't mean they're a "token." That's just stupid.

HAHA you're right about 1 thing there is a lot of stupid but its not mine, still it was a token. Here's why, but first: I'm not sure if the word means what you think it means.

to·ken·ism
ˈtōkəˌnizəm/
noun
the practice of making only a perfunctory or symbolic effort to do a particular thing, especially by recruiting a small number of people from underrepresented groups in order to give the appearance of sexual or racial equality

Now you'll probably wanna shout me down, as opposed to thinking about what I'm saying here, and that's fine but my logic is solid on this. First remember... I advocate that team of Sunspot's Avengers should be what survived to be the avengers.
I read the whole hickman run, and that character was pretty glaring.
Without looking I remember it spawning from ex-nihilo. Beathing up the avengers. Going on shang-chi's power up adventure. Glaring, standing, behind bobby as an enforcer...and most importantly HAVING ZERO SPEAKING PARTS! It's only speaking part was literally the "Hi, I'm a LGBT character flashback..." then the universe imploded.

So while the desire to attack me might be strong for some people, the truth is like she says above "Hickman made a character!" ... a token character, who we aren't going to see again I'd bet for a long long time.
Thing is... its should NOT be offensive for me calling him out on it. It should be offensive things like that happen, and people are SO SO desperate for representation... ANY representation that crap moves like that get defended.
I don't however have the time or motivation to argue with you in every thread, i'll just acknowledge that we staunchly disagree on things and move on. ciao.

[autbey]

They seem to be trying really hard to bring in new readers, how these new readers will discover the books is a mystery to me.

I've only ever really been a fan of the X-Men family and so far only two of the new books interest me. Don't like the O5, don't care for X-23. I might have been interested in Old Man Logan if it were set in his original reality, put putting him in the reality formerly know as 616 is silly to me.

I know I'm not the target audience anymore, that honor goes to the movie fans. Damn that corporate synergy.

[Midnight_v]

They seem to be trying really hard to bring in new readers, how these new readers will discover the books is a mystery to me.

I've only ever really been a fan of the X-Men family and so far only two of the new books interest me. Don't like the O5, don't care for X-23. I might have been interested in Old Man Logan if it were set in his original reality, put putting him in the reality formerly know as 616 is silly to me.

I know I'm not the target audience anymore, that honor goes to the movie fans. Damn that corporate synergy.

9 year old boy (a friend from works son) walk in with his dad to the FLGS, looking for spider man. Walks over picks up ultimate spider man, and says "This isn't spider man!" Where's the real spider man?" Over there under spider man... I can only imagine when someone says I'm gonna buy an avengers comic and sees the new warriors they'll think something similar.