NuMarvel....

[skyvolt2000]

I feel the same way. The last book of theirs I was reading was Moonknight.

On another note: I'm amazed at how people can lambast others on this board for not trying new books, and then say "I'm not going to be buying as many new books" I think it was Tiamat or whatever but thats a very odd thing to think about, after all the talk on these threads about "voting" with your dollars.

You can only vote with your dollars for so long.

I NEVER support that "voting with your dollars" mess. Because in reality it means NOTHING because those in charge will toss out an excuse or it's a character they don't like.

Fans supported 70+ issues of Cassandra Cain and 300+ of a white Wally West-look what they got.

Fans supported every John Stewart lead book and DC STILL wanted to kill him off.

Do I even need to mention Static? Stephanie Brown?

Then lets talk behavior of certain fans.

I have heard you don't support diversity if you don't buy Cyborg. Yet will join in the bashing of Ms Marvel, Nova, John Stewart (ESPECIALLY HIM), Static and Black Panther (him too). Because an underdeveloped guy in a top selling book needs more support the collection of POC who don't take crap from Batman.

Or the folks who will tell you need to buy those POC book no matter how bad they might be. In other words you don't have a choice in who you support.

Yes you will have folks on here the will scream vote with your dollar but aren't practicing what they preach.

Marvel does not expect us to buy every book. A lot of this is NOT about that 22 page book-it's about putting out a trade that will help get exposure for a lot of characters.

A Force will help every female in it way more than the failed solos of Storm, She Hulk and others.

Waid's kid Avengers will help NOVA WAYYYYYYY more that anyone expects. I've NEVER seen a Sam Alexander trade in stores let alone his floppies.

I expect Moon Girl & Devil Dino to KILL in trades & digital.

[Midnight_v]

I... I'm sorry I'm having trouble getting what you mean. First what is Poc?

Secondly, on some of what you're saying I agree, i don't think voting with your dollars alone is enough, and were probably vastly different on what we want to see. I've come to the conclusion that you have to make a fuss to be heard. Its not enough that I like what I like but I basically have to campaign for things I like and campaign against things I dislike as well. Welcome to the digital age. I bought a nova trade paper for a 10 year old kid, I know. You're in texas if your in dfw, you know lone star is broken up, but wild west comics has a good amount of trades if you're really looking. If find in fact that comicbook trades are stocked everywhere nowadays, I suggest looking beyond your local store.

[Tiamatty]

HAHA you're right about 1 thing there is a lot of stupid but its not mine, still it was a token. Here's why, but first: I'm not sure if the word means what you think it means.
Now you'll probably wanna shout me down, as opposed to thinking about what I'm saying here, and that's fine but my logic is solid on this. First remember... I advocate that team of Sunspot's Avengers should be what survived to be the avengers.
I read the whole hickman run, and that character was pretty glaring.
Without looking I remember it spawning from ex-nihilo. Beathing up the avengers. Going on shang-chi's power up adventure. Glaring, standing, behind bobby as an enforcer...and most importantly HAVING ZERO SPEAKING PARTS! It's only speaking part was literally the "Hi, I'm a LGBT character flashback..." then the universe imploded.

So while the desire to attack me might be strong for some people, the truth is like she says above "Hickman made a character!" ... a token character, who we aren't going to see again I'd bet for a long long time.
Thing is... its should NOT be offensive for me calling him out on it. It should be offensive things like that happen, and people are SO SO desperate for representation... ANY representation that crap moves like that get defended.
I don't however have the time or motivation to argue with you in every thread, i'll just acknowledge that we staunchly disagree on things and move on. ciao.

I agree that Hickman did jack **** with Pod, and I've criticized him for that on here. But that doesn't mean she's a token, any more than Shang-Chi was a "token" Asian. What it comes down to is this: There was absolutely no reason not to make Pod a lesbian. Also, it would've been so much worse had Hickman intended Pod as a lesbian and never actually had it mentioned on-panel.

The problem is that making a character who's not a straight white male is always seen as unusual. People always seem to think there needs to be a justification for it. Straight white male should not be the default, and a writer shouldn't be viewed with suspicion just because he creates a character who doesn't fit that mold. Hickman should've done more with Pod, but that still doesn't make her a token. She wasn't created specifically as a lesbian, to fill the LGBT niche. Hickman had a role in mind, created a character to fill that role, and then decided that there was no reason the character had to be straight. She would've gotten just as little to do if she'd been straight, or if she'd been male, or if she'd been anything else. It sucks that the character with jack **** to do was the one he decided to make gay, but he didn't make her gay just to fill a niche, so she's not a token.

[skyvolt2000]

9 year old boy (a friend from works son) walk in with his dad to the FLGS, looking for spider man. Walks over picks up ultimate spider man, and says "This isn't spider man!" Where's the real spider man?" Over there under spider man... I can only imagine when someone says I'm gonna buy an avengers comic and sees the new warriors they'll think something similar.

YOU do know that's a bad example.

The same thing happened when a kid went to the comic book store with his Dad and picked up Green Lantern.

"Who is Hal Jordan? Where is JOHN STEWART?"

See this happens when you are dealing with a person who is seen outside of comics on tv, movies and promotional material versus one who is NOT.

Lets look at Miles-how many of his figures show his face?
How many tv appearances has he made?
How many of his trades are stocked in stores? Not many since they sell out often (at least here in Texas)

Now compare that to Peter Parker.

As for the Avengers crack-considering we have had MANY versions of them outside of comic book stores with and without Thor. Steve. Tony & Hawkeye-that won't be an issue.

A better example would have been Wally West and even Iris West. There is not enough material of them as blacks to counter all the stuff that doesn't have them as black.

So while the desire to attack me might be strong for some people, the truth is like she says above "Hickman made a character!" ... a token character, who we aren't going to see again I'd bet for a long long time.
Thing is... its should NOT be offensive for me calling him out on it. It should be offensive things like that happen, and people are SO SO desperate for representation... ANY representation that crap moves like that get defended.

Pretty much you summed up Cyborg fans.

[LOSTie-chan]

I... I'm sorry I'm having trouble getting what you mean. First what is Poc?

POC is internet speak for non-white. It stands for Person Of Color.
I don't like the term but it gets the point across easily.

[Midnight_v]

POC is internet speak for non-white. It stands for Person Of Color.
I don't like the term but it gets the point across easily.

Awww HELL NO! Do people even know how WRONG that is? Wow. unbelievable.
Okay, gonna gotta breathe and count on that one.

I agree that Hickman did jack **** with Pod, and I've criticized him for that on here. But that doesn't mean she's a token, any more than Shang-Chi was a "token" Asian. What it comes down to is this:

Tiamatty chooses not to acknowledge tokenism even while acknowledging that Hickman did jack **** with the character and that she criticized him for it... and now that character who was defined by nothing except a flash in the pan to say "Hi, I'm gay" is gone.
I'm left with 3 options when it come to you on this. 1. You're being willfully ignorant. 2. You're being disingenuous on the topic. or 3. You're not talking to "ME" at all.

Midnight_v happens to be echoing a sentiment of utilized by your perceived enemies and so you want to talk to me essentially about what you're tired of "people always", which... Midnight_v hasn't always to your knowledge done... at all. Nor should any person with whom you haven't shared your lofty thoughts, and arguments with give a damn what you're tired of. I know, I don't.
Your argument about tokenism is pretty weak really, that character was written as a throw a way character to have added false-diversity on that team, and now POD is as of now GONE, because it never really existed anyway. So... myself having been a victim of tokenism, in my actual real life... I'm going to tell you, that its easy to identify and its damaging and does more harm than good always. Still thats a huge aside. NuMarvel, has made some really bad choices and because its done under the shield of diversity, its really easy to get away with it. Its tawdry.

Here's something to show I'm not pandering, if old thor died fighting the beyonders, thats fine. Jane foster thor is not especially NOT on the avengers, if marvel was serious and bold about it then they wouldn't have done that, and Captain Marvel (Carol) would be in that same spot on the ANAD avengers, and that's my problem with this new move. Its the way they went about it, and yes the reasons... but moreso the way they went about it that so distasteful, that and the thought that some people are just loudly lapping it up. SMH.

[Mary Jay]

They seem to be trying really hard to bring in new readers, how these new readers will discover the books is a mystery to me.

I know I'm not the target audience anymore, that honor goes to the movie fans. Damn that corporate synergy.

I tend to agree with this. I also feel I'm not the target audience anymore.

I find it a bit ironic that they try so hard to get new readers from the movie fans when those same movie fans will state that they have no intention of picking up a comic book ("comic books are for nerds, comics are lame, the movies are better, blablabla") and/or show complete disrespect both for the source material and those "comic books nerds" who nicely try to explain the original stories of the characters others know only from the movies.

I've come across a lot of those on forums and have been called a nerd on several occasion. Don't really care, I suppose I am a nerd after all! I find this kind of funny since I first got into comics because of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes (the cartoon), which got me into wanting to read the 'real' stories of those characters. Incidentally this show was, IMHO, the most faithful adaptation of the comics in terms of the spirit of the story and the characters.

[autbey]

If they were going to bring in movie fans in any high rate it would have happened by now. How many people watched the first avengers movie? 500mil? more? If even 1/1000 of those viewers bought the avengers book it would be selling over 500k. Of course we don't know digital sale, those seem to be secret.

[Shinglepants]

I'm very excited about all new Marvel.

Obviously, not every book is for me but there is a huuuge variety. Guys like Strange, Black Knight and Deaths Head are long overdue books. Really happy to see that core lines like Avengers/X-Men won't be dominated by one writer with satellite titles viewed as less important.

Losing Hickman and Remender was a blow (I'd have much rather lost Bendis), but that's given the opportunity for writers such as Ewing, Soule, Wilson, Duggan, Hopeless and Lemire to take on more, and in some cases higher profile, work.

Also, any initiative that sees the launch of Cable and Deadpool vol. 2 gains my eternal goodwill!

[Mary Jay]

If they were going to bring in movie fans in any high rate it would have happened by now. How many people watched the first avengers movie? 500mil? more? If even 1/1000 of those viewers bought the avengers book it would be selling over 500k. Of course we don't know digital sale, those seem to be secret.

I don't know why Marvel would think that they're going to bring in that many new readers from the MCU. I know they're sort of counting on this, with all the synergy and whatnot, but seriously... Traditionally, people who have read a book will go see the movie because they liked the book. People who go see a movie inspired by a book will seldom go through the effort of reading the book afterwards.

For example, I doubt that all the people who saw Jurassic Park rushed to read the book afterwards. Same thing with DaVinci code, Misery, Jaws, or even Lord of the Ring. The Harry Potter books might be an exception, but the people I know who have seen the movies will not bother to read the books. It takes too much time compared to watching a movie.

In the real world, movies don't bring in new readers, no matter what, no matter the book. It's a simple fact of life.

And I don't think people who have never read a comic book will suddenly want to because their demographic is represented. I didn't pick up a comic book because there was a white female superhero, after all.

[Frontier]

You can only vote with your dollars for so long.

I NEVER support that "voting with your dollars" mess. Because in reality it means NOTHING because those in charge will toss out an excuse or it's a character they don't like.

Fans supported 70+ issues of Cassandra Cain and 300+ of a white Wally West-look what they got.

Fans supported every John Stewart lead book and DC STILL wanted to kill him off.

Do I even need to mention Static? Stephanie Brown?

Then lets talk behavior of certain fans.

I have heard you don't support diversity if you don't buy Cyborg. Yet will join in the bashing of Ms Marvel, Nova, John Stewart (ESPECIALLY HIM), Static and Black Panther (him too). Because an underdeveloped guy in a top selling book needs more support the collection of POC who don't take crap from Batman.

Or the folks who will tell you need to buy those POC book no matter how bad they might be. In other words you don't have a choice in who you support.

Yes you will have folks on here the will scream vote with your dollar but aren't practicing what they preach.

Marvel does not expect us to buy every book. A lot of this is NOT about that 22 page book-it's about putting out a trade that will help get exposure for a lot of characters.

A Force will help every female in it way more than the failed solos of Storm, She Hulk and others.

Waid's kid Avengers will help NOVA WAYYYYYYY more that anyone expects. I've NEVER seen a Sam Alexander trade in stores let alone his floppies.

I expect Moon Girl & Devil Dino to KILL in trades & digital.

That's pretty much what I'm expecting to happen with Renew Your Vows. It's been doing really, really well sale-wise and one of the least divisive Dan Slott Spider-Man works in a while, but with Marvel editorials and the writer involved's opinion on the marriage, it's probably not going to get the same chance as Lois and Clark are getting...especially when they try and downplay it success in sales.

It doesn't help that the ANAD Amazing Spider-Man direction is a completely 180 from what RYV was doing.

Lets look at Miles-how many of his figures show his face?

Actually, how many Spider-Man figures actually show the faces of the person behind the mask to begin with? I could see few movie figures that show MacGuire's or Garfields faces.

How many tv appearances has he made?

He was a fairly big part of the recent Spider-Verse event for Ultimate Spider-Man, where he was portrayed very accurately from the comics (and voiced by Donald Glover to boot), and it looks like he'll be joining the new team forming in season 4 of Ultimate .

Though I was kinda hoping they'd do more with Miguel honestly, not to knock Miles or anything, but I just feel like there's so much they could do by exploring 2099 and Miguel in animation, especially when it's also Miguel's animated debut. Especially considering how little they did with 2099 in Spider-Verse event.

I'm also pretty sure Miles' suit has been an alternate costume in a few games, and that he's probably in a few of the IOS games. Could be wrong about that though.

[LOSTie-chan]

I've come across a lot of those on forums and have been called a nerd on several occasion. Don't really care, I suppose I am a nerd after all! I find this kind of funny since I first got into comics because of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes (the cartoon), which got me into wanting to read the 'real' stories of those characters. Incidentally this show was, IMHO, the most faithful adaptation of the comics in terms of the spirit of the story and the characters.

The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon is what got me into comics.
But I love Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes too. <33

[mace11]

Pod will be in the upcoming new avengers book.

[dragonmp93]

Predictions of what we will be discussing two years from now........................

http://illuminatingcomics.tumblr.com...f-guardians-of

[Garbledarber]

HAHA you're right about 1 thing there is a lot of stupid but its not mine, still it was a token. Here's why, but first: I'm not sure if the word means what you think it means.
Now you'll probably wanna shout me down, as opposed to thinking about what I'm saying here, and that's fine but my logic is solid on this. First remember... I advocate that team of Sunspot's Avengers should be what survived to be the avengers.
I read the whole hickman run, and that character was pretty glaring.
Without looking I remember it spawning from ex-nihilo. Beathing up the avengers. Going on shang-chi's power up adventure. Glaring, standing, behind bobby as an enforcer...and most importantly HAVING ZERO SPEAKING PARTS! It's only speaking part was literally the "Hi, I'm a LGBT character flashback..." then the universe imploded.

So while the desire to attack me might be strong for some people, the truth is like she says above "Hickman made a character!" ... a token character, who we aren't going to see again I'd bet for a long long time.
Thing is... its should NOT be offensive for me calling him out on it. It should be offensive things like that happen, and people are SO SO desperate for representation... ANY representation that crap moves like that get defended.
I don't however have the time or motivation to argue with you in every thread, I'll just acknowledge that we staunchly disagree on things and move on. ciao.

Agreed Pod was entirely there so Hickman could say there was an LGBT Avenger. That's the definition of a token character. It's incredibly disappointing that Pod was the first ever openly LGBT Avenger.

However that's why I'm excited for her to appear in New Avengers. Maybe she'll actually get to be treated like a character this time. I'd rather have her become a fully fleshed out character that can actually contribute to the Marvel Universe rather than be tossed to the wayside. I want to see sloppy representation become good representation.