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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    Then, if it's so obvious, can you please explain how Lois (the real Lois Lane not Brainiac) is being used here and how it is to her benefit? How is the real Lois Lane receiving character development and a chance to shine as herself in this story line? What, in your view, is the impact of the prolonged ambiguity about what aspects of Lois's behavior come from her own choices and which aspects of Lois's behavior come from Brainiac pulling the strings?
    well, where is her personal arc? how deveoped she was in the reboot?

    answer: no and zero. she is there...

    I won't say there is a complete conspiracy against Lois because great writers like Snyder,Jurgens, Azz and futures end team are using her very well. But in regular superman books? dude, whe is the real lois lane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Acro View Post
    Because it wasn't well-written. Simple as that. There's nothing within this comic in particular (or the previous one) to suggest Lois isn't in control of her own actions.

    Now, we an all speculate and say "She seems like she's acting out of character because she's been influenced by Brainiac", and that ultimately will likely end up being the case, but it's not being built up properly as is a bit distracting from the main story if so.


    My main problem is trying to wrap my head around why Superman can't leave. He sequestered himself initially, first in his apartment, then in the lab. Then he busted out and refuses to go somewhere safe because of... some sort of compulsion to remain on Earth. Steel's option was a great one. Go to the moon. Wait while they think of a plan. He seems to recognize this is a good plan, and yet, can't bring himself to go through with it. It's baffling.
    It is clear that Lois have some influence but not that she isn't in control of her actions. the way she talks with corben, how she feels after his death, she really seems to be in control and know what she is doing.
    Last edited by Blacksun; 06-05-2014 at 09:30 AM.

  2. #17
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    Where did Atomic Skull come from? The other characters were all either introduced earlier or had a decent reason to be there. It was just weird that the story just went "Suddenly, Atomic Skull!" Why was he there? What brought him there? Why is he with Metallo working for the military? He just sort of popped up out of nowhere.

  3. #18
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    All that was explained is that he was being held in Steel's facility along with Metallo. How he got there or previous encounters with the villain were never explained. The character did get a brief origin story in one of the Action backups during Morrison's run however, so this wasn't his initial introduction.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    I'm still really baffled by Wonder Woman's characterization, and a lot of my problems with it go back to her scene with Lois in Superman/Wonder Woman #8.


    In this scene, Wonder Woman learns that Lois has "glowing eyes" and we see that she's capable of using her God of War powers to mind control members of the military. Wonder Woman is perhaps more aware than most about Lois Lane's previous issues which kept her in a coma for awhile; she knows Lois once had psionic powers and knows they can be linked to coma. Yet, since learning Lois had mysterious glowing eyes, she's gone to tame the monster in Superman at Clark's Metropolis apartment after forgetting it existed (another misstep in her characterization along with the lack of disguise), she's visited the Phantom Zone, and she's been at the prison facility holding Superman where she meets Lois again and hugs her. In all this time she's said and done nothing about Lois.

    In this issue, we first see Wonder Woman in a state of worry about Superman who's now out of the security of the prison facility. Then, oddly, she disappears from the story following her conversation with Lana, presumably to take care of something in London. But why? Based on Superman/Wonder Woman #8, she is someone who may be uniquely capable of getting through to Superman and she has the power to possibly influence the minds of military men like General Lane and John Corben to prevent them from harming Superman. It's just really strange writing for Wonder Woman.

  5. #20
    Senior Member BlackFeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    I'm still really baffled by Wonder Woman's characterization, and a lot of my problems with it go back to her scene with Lois in Superman/Wonder Woman #8.


    In this scene, Wonder Woman learns that Lois has "glowing eyes" and we see that she's capable of using her God of War powers to mind control members of the military. Wonder Woman is perhaps more aware than most about Lois Lane's previous issues which kept her in a coma for awhile; she knows Lois once had psionic powers and knows they can be linked to coma. Yet, since learning Lois had mysterious glowing eyes, she's gone to tame the monster in Superman at Clark's Metropolis apartment after forgetting it existed (another misstep in her characterization along with the lack of disguise), she's visited the Phantom Zone, and she's been at the prison facility holding Superman where she meets Lois again and hugs her. In all this time she's said and done nothing about Lois.

    In this issue, we first see Wonder Woman in a state of worry about Superman who's now out of the security of the prison facility. Then, oddly, she disappears from the story following her conversation with Lana, presumably to take care of something in London. But why? Based on Superman/Wonder Woman #8, she is someone who may be uniquely capable of getting through to Superman and she has the power to possibly influence the minds of military men like General Lane and John Corben to prevent them from harming Superman. It's just really strange writing for Wonder Woman.
    You are free to consider it strange, but...while we know that Lois is responsable for what happened to Smallville, and we know that she is controlled by Brainiac, Diana does not...she only knows about that 'glowing', which I don't know, but it doesn't seem to me a hint that can lead directly to knowing that Lois is using mind control or she is responsable for the coma... (did Lois's eyes glow before, when she had psionic powers but was not controlled by Brainiac?) especially since those soldiers were capable of saying that to her, so they were not under her control in that moment (probably because of Diana's presence). We know that Lois was trying to use those powers only because we have seen it, while Diana has not seen in person that, she thought that was strange, but she has talked to Lois, and she seemed to act normally to her, didnít she?

    Besides, more than for what has happened to Smallville, she is worried for what is happening to Clark, so it doesn't seem strange to me she hasn't had the time to discover something about those glowing eyes.

    About reaching Clark in this issue. I don't know if she knew about that attack. It seems to me she has only talked with Steel who had reached Clark, before that, and has told him to wait for her arrival.

    Next, we see her flying, when she sees the explosion, and she has with her Hessia, so my guess is: she wanted to take Hessia with her to Superman, maybe hoping she could have a cure for him, hence why she lost time to arrive.
    Last edited by BlackFeath; 06-05-2014 at 01:26 PM.
    "Sometimes, it's best not to be who we are...but who we aspire to be". (Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman #23)

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    It'll prove a mistake that she overlooked it, but really that's all I see it as, that she overlooked the oddity. Again, a mistake to forget it, but with all that's going on, not really all that mind-boggling either.

    That's provided of course that this wasn't a mistake in regards to the collaboration between writers here.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackFeath View Post
    You are free to consider it strange, but...while we know that Lois is responsable for what happened to Smallville, and we know that she is controlled by Brainiac, Diana does not...she only knows about that 'glowing', which I don't know, but it doesn't seem to me a hint that can lead directly to knowing that Lois is using mind control or she is responsable for the coma... (did Lois's eyes glow before, when she had psionic powers but was not controlled by Brainiac?) especially since those soldiers were capable of saying that to her, so they were not under her control in that moment (probably because of Diana's presence). We know that Lois was trying to use those powers only because we have seen it, while Diana has not seen in person that, she thought that was strange, but she has talked to Lois, and she seemed to act normally to her, didn’t she?
    Glowing eyes aren't normal. It was at least worth some investigation, yet nothing from Wonder Woman. Nothing at all.

    Besides, more than for what has happened to Smallville, she is worried for what is happening to Clark, so it doesn't seem strange to me she hasn't had the time to discover something about those glowing eyes.
    She's had time to go to London and just stand around while Lois talks to Superman at the prison. She's had time and should make time if something suspicious is happening and possibly hurting an innocent person let alone a close friend of Superman's.

    About reaching Clark in this issue. I don't know if she knew about that attack. It seems to me she has only talked with Steel who had reached Clark, before that, and has told him to wait for her arrival.

    Next, we see her flying, when she sees the explosion, and she has with her Hessia, so my guess is: she wanted to take Hessia with her to Superman, maybe hoping she could have a cure for him, hence why she lost time to arrive.
    Seems like a miscalculation in terms of strategy to me. If she needed Hessia, perhaps she could have asked one of her JL friends to get her with some way to prove to Hessia that he or she can be trusted as an emissary for Diana. Because of her calming influence on Superman, her matched strength, her lasso of truth, and her ability to mind control soldiers, I struggle to accept that no one, including Diana, thought it would be worthwhile to stay closer at hand. Mostly, though, I'm very disappointed in her for letting the Lois issue linger for so long.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackFeath View Post
    You are free to consider it strange, but...while we know that Lois is responsable for what happened to Smallville, and we know that she is controlled by Brainiac, Diana does not...she only knows about that 'glowing', which I don't know, but it doesn't seem to me a hint that can lead directly to knowing that Lois is using mind control or she is responsable for the coma... (did Lois's eyes glow before, when she had psionic powers but was not controlled by Brainiac?) especially since those soldiers were capable of saying that to her, so they were not under her control in that moment (probably because of Diana's presence). We know that Lois was trying to use those powers only because we have seen it, while Diana has not seen in person that, she thought that was strange, but she has talked to Lois, and she seemed to act normally to her, didn’t she?

    Besides, more than for what has happened to Smallville, she is worried for what is happening to Clark, so it doesn't seem strange to me she hasn't had the time to discover something about those glowing eyes.

    About reaching Clark in this issue. I don't know if she knew about that attack. It seems to me she has only talked with Steel who had reached Clark, before that, and has told him to wait for her arrival.

    Next, we see her flying, when she sees the explosion, and she has with her Hessia, so my guess is: she wanted to take Hessia with her to Superman, maybe hoping she could have a cure for him, hence why she lost time to arrive.
    of course Lois was normal, she wouldn't say: I'm under Brainiac control. that is completely unrealistic. People eyes don't glow, cats yes, but people don't. WW just ignored it and moved ahead.

    she seem to have enough time to deal with Lois problem or at least try to find some help with the league.

    and where is johnathan in all this? aff

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    It'll prove a mistake that she overlooked it, but really that's all I see it as, that she overlooked the oddity. Again, a mistake to forget it, but with all that's going on, not really all that mind-boggling either.

    That's provided of course that this wasn't a mistake in regards to the collaboration between writers here.
    It is mind boggling, but mainly because it isn't too much of a hardship to report the information about Lois to other people like Dr. Shay Veritas or Justice League teammates who may be more free than she is to look into it further. But, hey, it's great to know that Wonder Woman makes the well being of an innocent human being like Lois such a low priority that she can't even take maximum 5 minutes to care enough about the information to relay it someone else if she's too busy to handle it herself. If it's all just poor collaboration among the writers, then that might explain it but it doesn't excuse it. The story itself, the actual canon and truth of the story, cannot be changed based on metatextual mistakes and excuses. A mistake for Wonder Woman is a mistake, and given some of the results of Brainiac's meddling, it was a very costly mistake.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    All that was explained is that he was being held in Steel's facility along with Metallo. How he got there or previous encounters with the villain were never explained. The character did get a brief origin story in one of the Action backups during Morrison's run however, so this wasn't his initial introduction.
    Oh, I didn't mean "Who is he and what is his origin?" My question was more "Why is Atomic Skull in the same ship thingie with Metallo and working with/for Senator/General Lane? How did he get from being held in the same facility to being brought along for a suicide attack on Superman?" It just seemed uncharacteristic of Pak to throw that in there unexplained. I could see the story justifications for the rest of the issue. Atomic Skull just kind of sticks out like a sore thumb since he's just there for no reason.

  11. #26
    Incredible Member Xarek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sillia View Post
    Oh, I didn't mean "Who is he and what is his origin?" My question was more "Why is Atomic Skull in the same ship thingie with Metallo and working with/for Senator/General Lane? How did he get from being held in the same facility to being brought along for a suicide attack on Superman?" It just seemed uncharacteristic of Pak to throw that in there unexplained. I could see the story justifications for the rest of the issue. Atomic Skull just kind of sticks out like a sore thumb since he's just there for no reason.
    A seen in Action Comics #31, Atomic Skull was being tested on by Steel in his facility during his imprisonment. Senator Lane used this fact for his benefit. After all, he needed well motivated "soldiers" to face Superman and Steel if needed be. I also think Pak is just setting a viable arc for future Action issues.
    Searching for Samus Aran. Still.

  12. #27
    Incredible Member Xarek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    It is mind boggling, but mainly because it isn't too much of a hardship to report the information about Lois to other people like Dr. Shay Veritas or Justice League teammates who may be more free than she is to look into it further. But, hey, it's great to know that Wonder Woman makes the well being of an innocent human being like Lois such a low priority that she can't even take maximum 5 minutes to care enough about the information to relay it someone else if she's too busy to handle it herself. If it's all just poor collaboration among the writers, then that might explain it but it doesn't excuse it. The story itself, the actual canon and truth of the story, cannot be changed based on metatextual mistakes and excuses. A mistake for Wonder Woman is a mistake, and given some of the results of Brainiac's meddling, it was a very costly mistake.
    This is a point you have made countless times before on other threads and while I understand your frustration, I don't get how this turns out to be WW's fault. She is not a psychic. She can't infer miraculously that because some soldier told her Lois "had glowing eyes" the first thing she would think would be: "eureka! Mind control by Brainiac!" We, as readers, are in on the secret of Brainiac's infiltration but not the characters in the world. So my advice would be: be patient. Let the arc play out. The only sure thing is that sooner rather than later Lois will be 100% herself again.
    Searching for Samus Aran. Still.

  13. #28
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Its an oversight on her part and I really don't see it being any deeper than that. I find it to be pretty unfair to rail on her saying Lois is a low priority. That's simply an unsustainable accusation. like Xarek said, glowy eyes doesn't automatically mean mind-controlled by a supervillain. Whether she forgot, or whether she knows of her recent abilities and is simply thinking they resurfaced, it will be an oversight of some consequence later, but at the same time its not something that indicates an immediate threat nor immediately suggests that she's in just as much danger as Superman is right now, thus nothing inexcusable. Its not like the solider told her that Lois Lane sprouted horns and was breathing fire. Her priorities as far as her knowledge is concerned IS in the right place, and that's stopping Superman's infection.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-05-2014 at 07:37 PM.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarek View Post
    This is a point you have made countless times before on other threads and while I understand your frustration, I don't get how this turns out to be WW's fault. She is not a psychic. She can't infer miraculously that because some soldier told her Lois "had glowing eyes" the first thing she would think would be: "eureka! Mind control by Brainiac!" We, as readers, are in on the secret of Brainiac's infiltration but not the characters in the world. So my advice would be: be patient. Let the arc play out. The only sure thing is that sooner rather than later Lois will be 100% herself again.
    I'm not even remotely suggesting Diana should instinctively connect glowing eyes with Brainiac. What I am suggesting, however, is that if she heard that a former psionically powered coma patient has been displaying unusual symptoms like glowing eyes, then it might be worth investigating further especially after mysterious comas inflict the people of Smallville. It's not Wonder Woman's fault for not figuring out Lois is Brainiac. It is Wonder Woman's fault for not considering glowing eyes as suspicious enough to warrant additional attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Its an oversight on her part and I really don't see it being any deeper than that. I find it to be pretty unfair to rail on her saying Lois is a low priority. That's simply an unsustainable accusation. like Xarek said, glowy eyes doesn't automatically mean mind-controlled by a supervillain. Whether she forgot, or whether she knows of her recent abilities and is simply thinking they resurfaced, it will be an oversight of some consequence later, but at the same time its not something that indicates an immediate threat nor immediately suggests that she's in just as much danger as Superman is right now, thus nothing inexcusable. Its not like the solider told her that Lois Lane sprouted horns and was breathing fire. Her priorities as far as her knowledge is concerned IS in the right place, and that's stopping Superman's infection.
    Okay, again, this isn't about chastising Diana for not figuring out Lois is being mind-controlled by a supervillain or even about Diana's priorities. Superman is more important right now. No, this is about Wonder Woman choosing to not do anything or make any effort to follow up on what she found out about Lois. She doesn't have to make Lois her top priority, but maybe she could have done something to make it appear as though it was any sort of priority of note. At the very least, as a hero who cares about protecting innocent people, she should be concerned for Lois's health given her previous condition and extended stay in a coma ward that only ended with experimental Parasite treatments. Maybe Lois's glowing eyes aren't as much of a threat as Superman turned Doomsday, but they could be a legitimate threat to Lois. Wonder Woman is supposed to be a great hero known for her compassion and strategic planning. She doesn't know how to delegate even if it could just mean saving the life of one person who happens to be her boyfriend's best friend?

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackFeath View Post
    About reaching Clark in this issue. I don't know if she knew about that attack. It seems to me she has only talked with Steel who had reached Clark, before that, and has told him to wait for her arrival.

    Next, we see her flying, when she sees the explosion, and she has with her Hessia, so my guess is: she wanted to take Hessia with her to Superman, maybe hoping she could have a cure for him, hence why she lost time to arrive.
    Sorry for revisiting this part of our previous discussion, but I've thought about it further and I still have issues with it. Diana's God of War powers don't rely on proximity. Gods' powers are typically of the "omni" variety, and since Diana previously spoke about using her power to influence the idea of war I have a hard time believing her mission to do so with her new powers was something she'd have to do on an individual by individual basis. So, assuming Wonder Woman can use her God of War powers to mind control or influence anyone in the armed forces wherever she is, and knowing she was watching the press conference on the news, I think it's reasonable to be curious why she couldn't have prevented hostilities escalating by reaching out to the American military who wanted to declare Superman an enemy of the state and not only discover what their plans were but also to convince them to be moderate in their approach to the threat Superman posed, thus preventing the explosion of kryptonite and the full release of the Doomsday monster inside Superman

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