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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm not even disagreeing. In fact I'm more agreeing than not. She made a mistake in overlooking it. The only difference that I can tell is just that I''m not as strongly irritated with it as you seem to be. In retrospect not following up on this will be a mistake as everything is going to come together eventually into one big blow out, but hey, she's not perfect. She messed up. But I'm not going to use it as some sort of benchmark on how much she cares.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I'm not even disagreeing. In fact I'm more agreeing than not. She made a mistake in overlooking it. The only difference that I can tell is just that I''m not as strongly irritated with it as you seem to be. In retrospect not following up on this will be a mistake as everything is going to come together eventually into one big blow out, but hey, she's not perfect. She messed up. But I'm not going to use it as some sort of benchmark on how much she cares.
    I'm irritated less because it happened and more because it's bad characterization that seems to be the result of sloppy writing. I think if no one was intending to follow up on the glowing eyes observation, then Soule should never have written it to begin with. It makes the scene in which the observation was made seem even more poorly constructed, as it was also a scene in which Wonder Woman is written to use her God of War powers to free Lois from custody when Lois, with her Brainiac powers, could have easily done it. Then there's the mention of Superman calling Lois up to say racy things. That whole scene now, in retrospect, feels like an unnecessary mess. It doesn't even set up Lois and Wonder Woman hugging in Superman #31, because Diana and Lois were meeting and not Wonder Woman and Lois.

    In short, I cannot help but notice that the worst handled plot thread in this event so far is anything to do with Lois. It is high time she catch a break and get some good writing for her character in the main books that allows her to shine as herself. Even those who aren't super fans of her character, I would hope would want better for such an iconic and beloved female character and role model.

    As for my feelings about Wonder Woman, I don't raise these concerns and criticisms to say that I will use this one oversight as a reason to judge Wonder Woman as careless and unkind now and forevermore. I'm raising them because as a reader, I'm annoyed at the sloppy writing, and as someone invested in the story and the characters, I'm disappointed in Wonder Woman. It's irritating, but not so much that a line has been crossed in terms of my estimation of her that can never be uncrossed. I can forgive the oversight, but it doesn't mean it isn't unfortunate and upsetting.

  3. #33
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    Great issue
    So far "Doomed" has been excellent (Superman #31 aside)
    Looking forward to the next installment in Superman/Wonder Woman

  4. #34
    explorer SXVA's Avatar
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    It seems like every Superman review thread ends up being mostly about some great injustice to Lois Lane... if not that, then to Wonder Woman... or both. :O

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SXVA View Post
    It seems like every Superman review thread ends up being mostly about some great injustice to Lois Lane... if not that, then to Wonder Woman... or both. :O
    I have no idea why though. Anyway what actually happened in the comic besides this Lois nonsense?

  6. #36
    Senior Member BlackFeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    Sorry for revisiting this part of our previous discussion, but I've thought about it further and I still have issues with it. Diana's God of War powers don't rely on proximity. Gods' powers are typically of the "omni" variety, and since Diana previously spoke about using her power to influence the idea of war I have a hard time believing her mission to do so with her new powers was something she'd have to do on an individual by individual basis. So, assuming Wonder Woman can use her God of War powers to mind control or influence anyone in the armed forces wherever she is, and knowing she was watching the press conference on the news, I think it's reasonable to be curious why she couldn't have prevented hostilities escalating by reaching out to the American military who wanted to declare Superman an enemy of the state and not only discover what their plans were but also to convince them to be moderate in their approach to the threat Superman posed, thus preventing the explosion of kryptonite and the full release of the Doomsday monster inside Superman
    Except that we don't really know what her powers as god of war are... In her own book she hasn't used them, all we know is what Soule showed us. So...she knows war, she knows the reasons of each war. We have seen her communicating mentally with a soldier, and saying that she knows all soldiers (know doesn't mean she can control them wherever they are), and that every soldier knows her, and someway, while she was there, Brainiac's powers on the soldiers didn't work, while previously, in Smallville, they had worked (and at the time Diana was already god of war, but she was not there).

    She said that she was the personification of the idea War, and that she would have tried to change it. This in no way seemed an easy thing to do, so no, I don't think she can make soldiers stop war while being far away. We haven't seen her using powers like these.

    When she saw what happened in TV (what Superman had asked Lois to do...so it could be she knew that too, by the way), she tried to contact Clark and ended with talking to Lana. Then she went outside. Steel contacted her when he found Clark, and she asked him to wait for her: she was taking Hessia to Clark, so...she was trying to go there to help him.
    "Sometimes, it's best not to be who we are...but who we aspire to be". (Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman #23)

  7. #37
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    Another problem is that we don't know yet that the oversight isn't deliberate set-up for future events/storylines. The people who are already predisposed not to like current events have instantly jumped on the idea that it's mere "sloppy writing." Looking at it objectively, there's no way to know that yet. There's no way to know that it isn't deliberate on the writer's part AND we don't know how exactly Diana's god of war powers work AND she's clearly fixated on finding/saving Clark (which is understandable).

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Another problem is that we don't know yet that the oversight isn't deliberate set-up for future events/storylines. The people who are already predisposed not to like current events have instantly jumped on the idea that it's mere "sloppy writing." Looking at it objectively, there's no way to know that yet. There's no way to know that it isn't deliberate on the writer's part AND we don't know how exactly Diana's god of war powers work AND she's clearly fixated on finding/saving Clark (which is understandable).
    there is big plot holes, it is sloppy writing. I can't setup things for futures issues and ignores that there is some issues in between that the problem is ignored

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Another problem is that we don't know yet that the oversight isn't deliberate set-up for future events/storylines. The people who are already predisposed not to like current events have instantly jumped on the idea that it's mere "sloppy writing." Looking at it objectively, there's no way to know that yet. There's no way to know that it isn't deliberate on the writer's part AND we don't know how exactly Diana's god of war powers work AND she's clearly fixated on finding/saving Clark (which is understandable).
    What type of future event or storyline would this type of oversight effectively set up? Diana's God of War powers work as they were shown to work: she can mind control anyone in the armed forces, and she told Clark this ability was something that could allow her to change how everyone views war, which is something pretty impossible to do on a one by one basis and doing things on an individual basis isn't very godlike. Fixation on Clark is no excuse for failing to do the bare minimum to address a potential problem. I'm talking a less than 5 minute conversation with someone like Dr. Shay Veritas who studied Lois and Brainiac before and could handle the issue going forward so that Diana can focus on Superman; it's called delegating. It's a plot hole plain and simple, and it negatively impacts Diana's characterization.

  10. #40
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    there is big plot holes, it is sloppy writing. I can't setup things for futures issues and ignores that there is some issues in between that the problem is ignored
    Its not a big plot hole. Even if it is a writing mistake, its a relatively minor one that can easily be explained away. "I overlooked something I shouldn't have...I screwed up." Done. Its being turned into a bigger deal now than it really is.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Its not a big plot hole. Even if it is a writing mistake, its a relatively minor one that can easily be explained away. "I overlooked something I shouldn't have...I screwed up." Done. Its being turned into a bigger deal now than it really is.
    It's a rookie mistake that could mean lois life or more people lives, like Corben.

    why only now she took Hessia to try to cure Superman? things are not fitting how it should

  12. #42
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Whether one considers it a rookie mistake or not that still doesn't make it a plot hole.

    And why does there have to be some sort of specific order in which the heroes are trying to cure Superman? He's been in decent hands thus far, the best scientific minds the world has to offer. What's so wrong with Hessia not being the first option compared to that?

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Whether one considers it a rookie mistake or not that still doesn't make it a plot hole.
    Perhaps plot hole is not the right word, but it is sloppy writing with problematic consequences. And, um, where is this "rookie" stuff coming from? Wonder Woman isn't a rookie, and it doesn't take someone with loads of experience and resultant wisdom to know that glowing eyes and suspicious comas occurring simultaneously, or at least glowing eyes in and of itself, might be dangerous and worth raising the alarm or investigating either oneself or delegating, which in this case would have probably worked best given Diana's preoccupation with Superman. Pak had the perfect opportunity here to at least reintroduce the issue by having Wonder Woman refer to it after Lana shares her findings about the comas.
    Last edited by misslane; 06-06-2014 at 12:52 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Whether one considers it a rookie mistake or not that still doesn't make it a plot hole.

    And why does there have to be some sort of specific order in which the heroes are trying to cure Superman? He's been in decent hands thus far, the best scientific minds the world has to offer. What's so wrong with Hessia not being the first option compared to that?
    Perhaps not being the first option, but it was clear that the scientists were far far away from finding a cure. WW should bring her earlier or even before the scientists.

    Of course it's a rrookie mistake, see somebody wrong and doesn't even care about it. They made her life so revolving around Superman that crap like this happen.

  15. #45
    Incredible Member Xarek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SXVA View Post
    It seems like every Superman review thread ends up being mostly about some great injustice to Lois Lane... if not that, then to Wonder Woman... or both. :O
    I completely agree. Guys, please try to stay on topic. This is a discussion for Action 32. If you feel the need to discuss other issues or grievances you have with the story, please discuss them in the appropriate thread or create one of your own.
    Thank you.
    Searching for Samus Aran. Still.

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