Action Comics #32 Discussion/Spoilers

[misslane]

Not saying it wouldn't have been a good idea. Saying it was a misstep but an understandable oversight given the conditions, and one that only the most myopic of viewpoints in the writing would equate to something as small as the "he's my boyfriend so screw everyone else" interpretation, which is what Blacksun was clearly insinuating.

So you don't think Diana's feelings for Clark could in any way problematically impact her ability to think clearly and strategically? I don't think it's something Diana would do maliciously or even consciously, but I can't say for sure that her feelings didn't factor into her single-mindedness.

[misslane]

You mean... manipulate other soldiers to do her will just because of Superman? That would be completely out of character. And... Diana has no mind control powers full stop. She has a form of empathy transmission. Instead of having just animal empathy she has now war empathy, so to speak.
Can I ask you how can Diana or any other character who has talked to Lois till this point, be able to detect that she was being mind control by Brainiac?

Actually, no it wouldn't be out of character. Not according to Charles Soule who wrote Wonder Woman in SM/WW #8 mind controlling soldiers just to get Lois out of trouble Lois deserved to get into because Lois was breaking the rules; journalists aren't exempt from the law. Diana has mind control powers. Diana has used mind control powers to get her way. Finally, I'm not suggesting that Diana detect that Lois was being mind controlled by Brainiac. I'm suggesting she knew that something was odd and did zero about it. That seems careless to me.

Can I ask why, if you're so eager to change the subject of this thread, are you adding to the conversation with this response and not discussing other aspects of the issue that you apparently feel are being neglected? We talked yesterday about Superman's thoughts and actions regarding going to the moon, for example, and after one back and forth, you didn't respond to my last comment on the matter. Now you're choosing to wade into this Wonder Woman conversation you've said you wanted to stop. So, please, if you'd really like to talk about something else because you have some interesting thoughts or questions about other aspects of the issue, I'd love to hear them and to diversify the discussion here as a result.

[Sacred Knight]

So you don't think Diana's feelings for Clark could in any way problematically impact her ability to think clearly and strategically? I don't think it's something Diana would do maliciously or even consciously, but I can't say for sure that her feelings didn't factor into her single-mindedness.

That's not what I was arguing. I wasn't arguing whether or not it ever could happen (sure it could), I was arguing against there being any indication that's what was going on here.

[Xarek]

Actually, no it wouldn't be out of character. Not according to Charles Soule who wrote Wonder Woman in SM/WW #8 mind controlling soldiers just to get Lois out of trouble Lois deserved to get into because Lois was breaking the rules; journalists aren't exempt from the law. Diana has mind control powers. Diana has used mind control powers to get her way. Finally, I'm not suggesting that Diana detect that Lois was being mind controlled by Brainiac. I'm suggesting she knew that something was odd and did zero about it. That seems careless to me.

I think you might need to reread the issue. WW is not a character about manipulation but leadership (she represents truth after all). Nowhere is it implied that diana has mind control powers. She is the embodiment of a ultra-general and so the soldiers followed her orders to let Lois go. If she were to say, "kill yourselves!" nothing would happen, for instance. The soldiers still had free will. They weren't puppets to her whims (which is a mind control ability).

Can I ask why, if you're so eager to change the subject of this thread, are you adding to the conversation with this response and not discussing other aspects of the issue that you apparently feel are being neglected? We talked yesterday about Superman's thoughts and actions regarding going to the moon, for example, and after one back and forth, you didn't respond to my last comment on the matter. Now you're choosing to wade into this Wonder Woman conversation you've said you wanted to stop. So, please, if you'd really like to talk about something else because you have some interesting thoughts or questions about other aspects of the issue, I'd love to hear them and to diversify the discussion here as a result.

I was just trying to humor you and perhaps gain an insight into your (and Blacksun's) single-mindedness. Apologies.
So going back to our other discussion and responding to your comment,

...I think Superman's rejection of a lunar exile was proof that Wonder Woman and Lana were wrong to trust Superman right now. As you say, he's behaving erratically and is at war with himself. Superman will certainly get through this dark time somehow, but his judgment and thus the man himself cannot be trusted until something fundamentally changes.

Imagine that a close friend of yours is in this dark place. He is fighting a demon within himself. A demon that can not only hurt others but also your friend. You know that whatever he is facing he will not beat alone. Your friend needs help but people are deserting him left and right. What would you do? Wouldn't YOU trust him and support him no matter what? That is what Wonder Woman and Lana are doing right now. Trusting him and helping him so they can ultimately save him, and consequently, the world.

[Ascended]

There's no need for straw men here. No one is arguing that everything boils down to how badly Lois Lane has been treated.

So, I rather enjoyed our conversation about Maxima, but here....my god. This thread is about the latest Action issue, and here we are, with the vast bulk of the discussion about a throwaway scene in Superman/Wonder Woman. This thread is merely proof of what I was saying. You may disagree with the sentiment, but there are several posters who have also complained about discussions breaking down into this sort of argument. No straw men here, just an opinion you clearly dont like.

Anyway, you're right in that Lois' eyes are concerning. In the DCU that could mean any number of things; demonic possession, unstable genetic mutation, clone, shape-shifting alien....or it could be that she swallowed a cosmic ray and has the super-lame power of glowing eyes. Or perhaps there was no glow at all and the soldier who saw it was merely tricked by the light. Or perhaps Lois wears glowing contact lenses (those actually exist). It's something to look into though, you're right. But Diana is currently dealing with an extinction level threat in Superman's infection, a war of succession in Olympus, and Luthor's takeover of the League. She's clearly too busy to deal with it. Batman is dealing with the Doomsday infection, his son's body being missing, the League, and whatever else. Hal Jordan is across the galaxy fighting a war. Flash is rebuilding two cities. Everyone is busy dealing with their own problems, several of which endanger several hundred thousand lives, if not the entire world. Do you honestly think anyone is going to drop what they're doing to look into some random woman's glowing eyes? Its a problem, but all signs say its not a pressing one (no loss of life, no unseemly actions taken by Lois herself, no destruction of property) and it can wait until the Doomsday infection is dealt with.

As for the question of whether its a writer's mistake or a plot point to explore later....hey, maybe its a mistake on the writer's part. Superman/Wonder Woman is certainly the weakest title Soule writes and this story is being bounced around by three or four writers. Stuff like that happens. But the story isnt over (we're what, just entering the third Act?) so calling it either way seems awfully judgmental. And circumstantial evidence supports it being a plot point, as Soule generally is regarded as a skilled writer who doesnt make big mistakes (like dropping an entire plot thread). You can call it what you will, but only one of us is passing judgment on the thing before it's finished. So you tell me who is overreacting. Actually, let's just call it good. I get the feeling we'll get nowhere here, so Im just going to move on and discuss the issue at hand, if possible. No offense, like I said I enjoyed our Maxima discussion, but I feel like there's no more discussion to be had here.

[Gaelforce]

So from here on out, let's keep this to Action #32 and not Superman/WW.

Enough of the debate about a scene that occurred in another book.

[brucekent12]

Gaelforce, best idea I've read here. Good chapter, Pak did an outstanding job! Favorite part was the exchange between Lana and WW. Good stuff.

[Lax]

So from here on out, let's keep this to Action #32 and not Superman/WW.

Enough of the debate about a scene that occurred in another book.

Lol. And now all the traffic stopped.

Blacksun, I think your points would be more relevant if they were discussed in the Superman Wonder Woman #8 thread. Or better yet, create your own thread with the topic (ie. Lois Lane & Brainiac's Mind Control - Consequences and Discussion). I think you would find plenty of people who would share your point of view and might even exchange some useful ideas and opinions.

Good idea, I can see this coming up again in issue #9 so I'm going to steal it!

[Mantis Girl 94]

Leave it to the Military to make things worse i swear. I wish there was more krypto action but i liked the issue especially the lana and diana (fist bump) oh yea who know they gonna get sh** done.

My dad (the 3 war veteran) would love this comment


Far and away, my least favorite Pak issue

[Ascended]

My dad (the 3 war veteran) would love this comment


Far and away, my least favorite Pak issue

I think he meant that in fiction, especially science fiction, the military is almost never seen in a good light.

[DochaDocha]

I think he meant that in fiction, especially science fiction, the military is almost never seen in a good light.

And usually "the military" refers less about the soldiers and more high-ranking officers. There certainly are bad guy soldiers, but I feel they're generally balanced by good guy soldiers. On the other hand, often times the decision-makers are the bad guys, or even the ones who are mostly good are still part of the problem.

On topic: I don't really care much for General, or Senator in this case, Lane. Never have. As others have said, he's too much of a Thunderbolt Ross wannabe. I'm not sure what it would take for me to like the guy except perhaps reverting him to his non-military origins.

[Ascended]

And usually "the military" refers less about the soldiers and more high-ranking officers. There certainly are bad guy soldiers, but I feel they're generally balanced by good guy soldiers. On the other hand, often times the decision-makers are the bad guys, or even the ones who are mostly good are still part of the problem.

On topic: I don't really care much for General, or Senator in this case, Lane. Never have. As others have said, he's too much of a Thunderbolt Ross wannabe. I'm not sure what it would take for me to like the guy except perhaps reverting him to his non-military origins.

You know, I think the easiest way to make Lane interesting is to just write him like a *real* military man. Drop this ridiculous "I'll burn the planet to save it from you, hero!" Thunderbolt Ross foolishness, and treat him like he's got a brain. Politicians and military leaders are going to be wary of Superman no matter what, simply because he's accountable only to himself. But that doesnt mean they're going to treat him like he's bin Laden either. Lane's job is to prepare for the worst, and with mind controllers and demonic possession and monster viruses running amok in the DCU, it's obviously not unheard of that Superman might end up being a problem. But Lane shouldnt discount all the good Superman has done, or the fact that he's *clearly* on humanity's side.

Lane would be much more fun if he wasnt so clearly defined as a "bad guy" There would be times when Superman's goals are the same as America's. And during those times Lane should work with Superman for the greater good. And there are times when Superman's actions are going to go against what American politicians are doing, or when America doesnt want anyone snooping around. And during those times, Lane will have to be prepared to confront and detain Superman.

Make Lane's morality a little more complex. He's a patriot willing to do anything for his nation, and Superman has done some good work out there, inspiring the people, saving lives, avoiding the red tape and politics that the military gets wrapped up in. But Superman's still dangerous, he's a loose cannon even though he works within well defined ethical boundaries, and his presence brings a number of threats with it. Sam Lane should be a good, honest man, but one who agrees with Lex Luthor's more sane points about the problems Superman creates. Lane should offer a chance to explore the real world complexities a being like Superman would create, without having to delve into that morass across the entire comic book.

[Bookem Danno]

Previous preview thread.

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2...tion-comics-32

Lot of stuff going on in this. Feels like it's gonna be another great issue by Pak. Dude who's on art isn't Kuder but still really nice art with GREAT coloring.

A strong chapter. The coloring was definitely much better than the servicable art.

Hey, I forget, what does Lana do for a living these days?

(I told you I'm going to ram this joke down all your throats... )

"Dammit Jim, I'm an electrical engineer, not a doctor... although I can diagnose what's going on here."

but dragging out this plot point is starting to really damage Wonder Woman's character and in ways that seem less the result of creator intentions and more the result of sloppiness.

And she is distracted by processing Lana's cultural reference to the FIST BUMP -over the phone! Heh, it actually was a pretty funny moment -although maybe not intended as such.

On topic: I don't really care much for General, or Senator in this case, Lane.

Yeah, not a fan. Doesn't help that I have not acclimated to his New52 backstory so far either. Of course, that's neither here nor there, because it's more disappointing that Lois has lost all her Pre52 charm.

Its not a big plot hole. Even if it is a writing mistake, its a relatively minor one that can easily be explained away. "I overlooked something I shouldn't have...I screwed up." Done. Its being turned into a bigger deal now than it really is.

Plot holes are a HUGE turn off and hope no big deal breakers rear their head.

[exile001]

Thanks to Pak that we are now clear of that version of Metallo, the ugliest re-design of the New 52!

We truely had the worst of all worlds with this Metallo, a bland soldier-boy, blindly loyal to "America" (A.K.A. anyone who outranked him), with all the personality of a blank sheet of cardboard. Johns' shoe-horned infatuation with Lois was present and, of course, he happened to work for her father.

I can't wait for a new take on the character, which will hopefully be much, much better. This is supposed to be a heavy hitter of Superman's already limited rogues gallery.

[exile001]

On the art, Scott Kolins drawing Superman is a dream come true for me and it is clear he has upped his game massively from Larfleeze.

If we switch Kolins for Daniel on S/WW, keep Kuder on Action and Romita Jr on Superman, we may have the best looking Superman line of books in the character's history.