Am I crazy or are GL fans completely irrational about this???

[FishyZombie]

Hi everyone! So I haven't been on this site long but its easy to see the divide in the GL fanbase between Hal, John, Kyle and Guy. And I understand that, everyone has their favorites and whatnot but here is my problem: I keep hearing people say that favorite version has been sidelined, and its usually John and Kyle fans. But that never made any sense to me. Its not a Flash situation where they bench whoever Barry or Wally whenever dc decides to push the other. All of those characters have had their own ongoing solo titles recently. And frankly Hal doesn't seem to be doing all that much better than them. Then again I've also heard people who theorized that Hal was getting sidelined at one point or another. So why does this complaint keep coming up?

[Outside_85]

Because all of them have at one time or another had a 'golden age' where they were nearly the only Lantern around and usually brushing shoulders with Superman and Batman on the Justice League... or in the case of Guy Gardner, getting punched in the face. And their fans would just really like for this age to return.
Also they complain because the New 52 just sort of cemented their perception that DC wasn't really going to do anything progressive with anyone other than Hal, because he was the one that got to stay on Earth while the others were lost in deep space, surrounded by monsters and often changing the color of their ring.

And as for why it keeps returning; Well even when Hal vanished off the face of the planet for some GL event, instead of bringing in Guy, John or Kyle, DC has since the launch of the New 52 instead opted to create entirely new Lanterns to keep the seats warm... and it only gets worse when Hal eventually returns and these new characters just vanish. Like we got Baz, with much hype and a quick spot on the JLA, then came Trinity War and FE and he just dissapeared, to be replaced with the new Power Ring who might suffer the same fate.

[poroto678]

I consider myself a big GL fan and a hardcore Kyle fan. I've never complained about what you said tho. I agree that John fans complain a lot, but who cares? Since Mosaic, anything that's been written meets their expectations.
I think Kyle was indeed a little "sidelined", but only because Johns had bigger plans for the entire GL-verse. I mean, he gave us Sinestro Corps War and Blackest Night... who, in their right mind, could complain about that? It's GL at its finest. I loved when Kyle lived in New York with Jenny and struggled with his art career, but he doesnt fit in the GL-verse anymore... Johns went "too epic" for that. Going back doesnt make much sense. I love Kyle in Omega Men tho.. it's a great step forward IMHO.

I do complain about the quality of the current GL book. Venditti has destroyed everything Geoff Johns worked so hard for, and that sucks.

[Claude]

I never understood why - when Johns went, as you say, "too epic" and dropped all Hal's connections on Earth in favour of rolling events and new lantern corps every week - they didn't just put Kyle back as the "Earth Lantern" before the reboot.

[Doctor Know]

Question:

Is Simon Baz anybody's favorite? Or is he a best forgotten experiment DC tried for 3 years, and gave up on?

[Starter Set]

Gather all in the love of Kyle Rayner.

[Carabas]

Question:

Is Simon Baz anybody's favorite? Or is he a best forgotten experiment DC tried for 3 years, and gave up on?

Let's put it this way: they already had four human Green Lanterns that each were fan favourites who needed to be given their turn in the spotlight every once in a while, which was (speaking not as a fan but as a realist now) one or two too many.

And then they went and introduced a fifth one. It was never going to work with the other four still around.

[MrHashasheen]

Question:

Is Simon Baz anybody's favorite? Or is he a best forgotten experiment DC tried for 3 years, and gave up on?

I like Simon, even if I felt he was superflous and a cheap gimmick. Same for Power Ring.

DC's attempts at rebooting aliases with new characters hasn't really worked out much, I think. And even when it does, they don't double down and go with it, because nostalgia and stasis are king. They had four Green Lanterns going into the New 52. Why they didn't just put two on Earth (Justice League, Green Lantern or Justice League International) and two in Space (Green Lantern Corps, a new name title, New Guardians, etc...) and leave it at that unless a swap around happened is beyond me.

But then, I like the light spectrum but think having seven complete different corps is overkill and stupid, so what do I know?

[joybeans]

Question:

Is Simon Baz anybody's favorite? Or is he a best forgotten experiment DC tried for 3 years, and gave up on?

He was a character with a good origin story. And more importantly, he was a character that brand new readers who jumped in with the New 52 could latch onto. Hal, John, Guy, and Kyle were all heavily defined by their pre-Flashpoint history, because Green Lantern line didn't get a proper reboot. For a lot of readers, Simon's story was the first time they got to see "YOU HAVE THE POWER TO OVERCOME GREAT FEAR" on page. He was a character that could have found a role as an audience surrogate in one of the many GL books at the time. However, after Johns finished his saga, interest in the franchise dropped off, and no one under Venditti's group really knew what to do. Soule wrote a few decent interactions between him and Guy Gardner, but Baz just became a forgotten asset in a collapsing franchise.

[Güicho]

Hi everyone! So I haven't been on this site long but its easy to see the divide in the GL fanbase between Hal, John, Kyle and Guy. And I understand that, everyone has their favorites and whatnot but here is my problem: I keep hearing people say that favorite version has been sidelined, and its usually John and Kyle fans. But that never made any sense to me. Its not a Flash situation where they bench whoever Barry or Wally whenever dc decides to push the other. All of those characters have had their own ongoing solo titles recently. And frankly Hal doesn't seem to be doing all that much better than them. Then again I've also heard people who theorized that Hal was getting sidelined at one point or another. So why does this complaint keep coming up?

Green Lantern fueled by the unique Corps concept, which implicitly allowed for multiple characters to share and/or swap the power and title, was able to buildup to a multi-character and book franchise.
With the Corps, then adding Guy, then John and eventually each with their own unique book.
All running concurrently.

The standard Corps book

The renegade Guy Gardner...


And the more cosmic "architect" the thinking-mans Green Lantern John Stewart & Mosaic.



In the 90s regular sales, and with it character was replaced by "eXtreme events!" that is any shocking death, crippling, or heel-turn eXtreme character revision and shocking new direction! Was the name of the game. So speculators would know what "shocking key-issues" to buy multiple copies of. And they did, in droves. (See the speculator boom!)

Green Lantern's eXtreme moment came when all the main characters were shockingly turned insane (Hal) , crippled (John), depowered and mutated (Guy) and the entire Corps killed! All to be replaced by Kyle.
Pretty much the new Scrappy-Doo (puppy powered) now only GL of the DCU.

This began the huge schism between fans.
Hal now an insane murderer, John crippled first in a wheel chair and then his mind, Guy striped of any connection to the ring. All so Kyle could be the only GL.

If you happen to grow up with Scrappy Doo, you probably thought he was the best! hence Kyle fans.
Everyone else was like, wtf is this garbage, what happened to the great Corps concept and the others?

Kyle became the only GL allowed in the main DCU, that is until:

Justice League Animated series. Who brazenly went against the publishers Kyle only rule, and used John Stewart. Unapologetically declaring, they needed diversity.

This sent the publishers into a shame panic, while on TV John was being shown as the legit champion of the Corps and the JL. In their comics, he was still being shown crippled physically, and mentally, so they could justify Kyle having the only ring.
Shamed into FINALLY bringing John back!
Who was quickly "fixed" and made GL of the Justice League.

With the Kyle only edict now broken, - this opened the floodgates, to bringing them all back, which they did! And led to the Rebirth Event, and now everyone wanting their GL as the lead.

[skyvolt2000]

Everyone else was like, wtf is this garbage, what happened to the great Corps concept and the others?

Kyle became the only GL allowed in the main DCU, that is until:

Justice League Animated series. Who brazenly went against the publishers only Kyle rule, and used John Stewart. Unapologetically declaring, they needed diversity.

eague.

With the Kyle only edict now broken, this opened the floodgates, if to bringing them all back, and let to the Rebirth Event, and now everyone wanting their GL as the lead.

To be fair-the original Justice League cartoon roster included Black Lighting and either Hal or Kyle in the first draft/pitch that McDuffie put together. That pitch was posted on his webpage prior to his death around the time Justice League Unlimited was in it's last season.

They were told NO to Black Lighting due to issues with his creator-who they SCREWED by firing him from the 2nd volume of BL by a certain former DC editor.

John got the slot pretty much because there were no other black guys available. Cyborg was around but was a mindless tin can at the time and I think talks of a Teen Titan cartoon was starting at that time.

Every other black guy at Dc was owned by Milestone.

DC STILL had to APPROVE John on that series and LOL they did. Remember they had to remove Aquaman, Firestorm and Flash from the show because of other projects.

The WB's Aquaman pilot
Ronnie Raymond's death
And early seeds of a Flash tv series

This sent the publishers into a shame panic, while on TV John was being shown as the legit champion of the Corps and the JL. In their comics, he was still being shown crippled physically, and mentally, so they could justify Kyle having the only ring.
Shamed into FINALLY bringing John back!
Who was quickly "fixed" and made GL of the Justice League.

Funny Kyle was still GL of the main GL book. He wasn't buried until Johns put a knife in his back and cleared him out for Hal.

John getting fixed was about MONEY and complaints by stores saying folks were looking for stories of a black GL. Never mind the fact those store didn't order the comic book version of the book that would have solved that issue.

[Güicho]

LOL they did.[/B]

Funny Kyle was still GL of the main GL book. He wasn't buried until Johns put a knife in his back and cleared him out for Hal.

"Buried" = Pure invention by some Kyle fans/Johns haters.
Johns treated Kyle with nothing but respect. The whole time though some Kyle fans were yelling - but he used to be special! He was the ONLY green Lantern ... Why isn't HE SPECIAL ANYMORE! And DC kowtowed to this at every turn, we got Kyle's continuing Scrappy-Doo adventures, as Magical-Ion Center of the universe, and then again as Mary-Sue-Rainbow-Lantern specialist Lantern of all!
They even ripped pages from John Stewart's Mosaic book, where he was once the artistic outside the box thinking GL, prophaside and chosen personally by the Guardians, to take the power to the next level. All that was scraped and given to Kyle instead.

If anyone should complain, it's John fans, who had to watch their character get crippled so Kyle could get the only ring, and then when they realized that wouldn't actually stop John from being a Green Lantern whose power runs on the will of the mind, not the physique, they crippled Johns brain too! (as they had done to Jordan), all to justify Kyle as the only GL.
Kyle fans have no business talking about "put a knife in his back and clearing the way" when Kyle's whole character and concept was built, and sustained, on the broken backs and minds of other Lanterns. LOL!
The ones complaining about the Corps and Earth's original Corps Lanterns coming back to prominence, were largely Kyle fans.

Am I crazy or are GL fans completely irrational about this???

Yes it's true, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Again; Green Lantern built around the unique Corps concept, which implicitly allowed for multiple characters to share and/or swap the power and title, allows for it.
It's for better and worse a concept which is able to build up to, a multi-character, and multi-book, franchise.
With that , comes the favoritism.

[Crazy Diamond]

"Buried" = Pure invention by some Kyle fans/Johns haters.
Johns treated Kyle with nothing but respect. The whole time though some Kyle fans were yelling - but he used to be special! He was the ONLY green Lantern ... Why isn't HE SPECIAL ANYMORE! And DC kowtowed to this at every turn, we got Kyle's continuing Scrappy-Doo adventures, as Magical-Ion Center of the universe, and then again as Mary-Sue-Rainbow-Lantern specialist Lantern of all!
They even ripped pages from John Stewart's Mosaic book, where he was once the artistic outside the box thinking GL, prophaside and chosen personally by the Guardians, to take the power to the next level. All that was scraped and given to Kyle instead.

If anyone should complain, it's John fans, who had to watch their character get crippled so Kyle could get the only ring, and then when they realized that wouldn't actually stop John from being a Green Lantern whose power runs on the will of the mind, not the physique, they crippled Johns brain too! (as they had done to Jordan), all to justify Kyle as the only GL.
Kyle fans have no business talking about "put a knife in his back and clearing the way" when Kyle's whole character and concept was built, and sustained, on the broken backs and minds of other Lanterns. LOL!
The ones complaining about the Corps and r Earth's origianl Corps Lanterns coming back to prominence, were largely Kyle fans.


Yes it's true, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Again; Green Lantern built around the unique Corps concept, which implicitly allowed for multiple characters to share and/or swap the power and title, allows for it.
It's for better and worse able buildup to a multi-character, and book, franchise. With that, comes the favoritism.

John Stewart was in trouble before Kyle was even introduced. Mosaic got cancelled because an editor didn't like the book. They didn't care that the book sold well or that fans liked it; they wanted it gone and by issue 5 it had been cancelled. Before that, Katma Tui was killed in a lousy story to build up Star Sapphire as a serious villain and Cosmic Odyssey happened where out of all the teams available, the one lead by a Black man (who wasn't even supposed to be in the damn story) was the one who failed. Then there was Stewart being the star of GL after Hal retired. That sold well but once Hal came back John started being marginalized more and more and more. If it hadn't been for the JL cartoon (which was done by fans of John Stewart) I don't think he would still be around. Blaming Kyle ignores the general problem DC and Marvel have had pushing Black characters time and time again.

As a fan of John Stewart, I did not understand how a character which was well received on TV all of sudden could not play a major role in any storyline when Johns was on the GL book. I remember how either Didio and Johns said that all four GLs would be treated equally. Then I read GL and GLC and noticed how Hal and John's "partnership" was handled compared to Kyle and Guy's. John rarely showed up and when he did matter it was either to do something kewl (ex. sniping that snail guy from the Sinestro Corps), mope about Xanshi, or be put in a situation (which never seemed to happen to anyone else) where he would have to kill. It's like Johns got his idea of what Stewart should be from the first five minutes of the first episode of the first season of Justice League. It was really ridiculous especially since JLU was on at the same time. Then, DC decided for whatever reason that John had to be killed off while talking out of the other side of their mouth about how they wanted to promote diversity.

The thing with GL is that due to years of stuff like that, they have a broken fanbase. Different people want different things from GL and they can't accommodate everybody so usually something has to give. It's kinda like Sonic the Hedgehog in that way.

[Güicho]

John Stewart was in trouble before Kyle was even introduced....

Ok. They could have put John in the main Corps book, instead of Kyle, Kyle already had Ion. Jonhs wasn't even writing those books, you can't blame him for everything. LOL!
Look to the editor of the Corps book at the time. . And again ask yourself why Kyle became Guardian of the Universe, not John Stewart, who was actually prophesied to it.
As to how John ended up in a wheelchair, and without the will power to be a GL, again check the editors of Kyle's book.
The supposed "last ring" should have gone to John, who was right there on Mosaic(Oa) instead, they ignored John even existed, and had Ganthet fly all the way to earth to give it away randomly to anyone.
Then so they could justify Kyle having the only ring they crippled John.

Truth is DC editorial loves the schism created by the Corps concept, and the possibility of many GLs of Earth.
It's how they've played it since the intro of Earth's second Corps Lantern. And they've been playing them (and the fans) off each other since.
The rivalry and favoritism, and buzz good and bad it creates sells.

[RobinFan4880]

I like all the Lanterns except Hal. He is a really boring character that lacks any kind of depth (IMO). That's why I roll my eyes whenever I see Hal being foisted up over the other, better Lantern characters.

Personally, I wonder why Baz is not being used in the Justice League right now. The epilogue in Green Lantern sure made it seem like it was going to be Baz who helped Power Ring learn about her powers, not Barry Allen.

I did not read this before.
So he is considered a person of color in the new52.
Interesting.

Kyle was Latino in the Post-Crisis continuity also.