Am I crazy or are GL fans completely irrational about this???

[skyvolt2000]

I just think that John fans are the ones who complained the most in the forum. My personal opinion.

Well they have reason to-because John is the most attacked Green Lantern. His appreciation thread had to be shut down because Hal fans would not stop going in there to attack. Lets not forget Comicvine's black character of the month poll-folks who hated Black Panther & Cyborg put aside that hate to go HAM on John Stewart.

Folks wrote ESSAYS about how much they hated John Stewart. When has that ever happened to Guy, Kyle, Jessica, Hal or Simon?

This is the issue with the franchise-

Folks in charge want you to worship Hal Jordan and if that means making him into a messed mix up of himself. Kyle, Simon, Guy & John-so be it. The Hal Jordan I read back in the day is nowhere in the new 52 or DC You.

If they want Hal to be God-fine but don't try to ruin the others while trying.

John got a boost from Justice League cartoon and being the ONLY GL you saw on tv with Hal gone from 1986-2011. It also helped he was a mindless ball of clay in comics doing nothing after his book GL Mosaic got axed by editor who didn't care for it. So when things finally started looking good-here come Hal & Johns and the dismantling of John Stewart was on. Then came the Cyborg as the face of black heroes at Dc started and someone got the idea that killing him off was good for business.

And to John Stewart fans it looked like no one at DC wanted him around. And now he's out looking for Star Trek Voyager, Space Ghost, Mystery Science Theater 3000 & the ship from Stargate Universe. They might as well lend him over to Milestone and let him be GL of Dakota.

It's really Guy & Kyle the ones being screwed. The battle of Hal vs John leaves them in the background.

Tossing them in doomed books is not going to help either one of them. It might be time to take those rings away and pull a Dick Grayson or Carol Danvers with both.

Nobody is Nightwing right now. Why couldn't Kyle become Dr Fate?

DC wants this to be the Spider-Man franchise but they went at it all wrong.

[skyvolt2000]

Everyone else was like, wtf is this garbage, what happened to the great Corps concept and the others?

Kyle became the only GL allowed in the main DCU, that is until:

Justice League Animated series. Who brazenly went against the publishers only Kyle rule, and used John Stewart. Unapologetically declaring, they needed diversity.

eague.

With the Kyle only edict now broken, this opened the floodgates, if to bringing them all back, and let to the Rebirth Event, and now everyone wanting their GL as the lead.

To be fair-the original Justice League cartoon roster included Black Lighting and either Hal or Kyle in the first draft/pitch that McDuffie put together. That pitch was posted on his webpage prior to his death around the time Justice League Unlimited was in it's last season.

They were told NO to Black Lighting due to issues with his creator-who they SCREWED by firing him from the 2nd volume of BL by a certain former DC editor.

John got the slot pretty much because there were no other black guys available. Cyborg was around but was a mindless tin can at the time and I think talks of a Teen Titan cartoon was starting at that time.

Every other black guy at Dc was owned by Milestone.

DC STILL had to APPROVE John on that series and LOL they did. Remember they had to remove Aquaman, Firestorm and Flash from the show because of other projects.

The WB's Aquaman pilot
Ronnie Raymond's death
And early seeds of a Flash tv series

This sent the publishers into a shame panic, while on TV John was being shown as the legit champion of the Corps and the JL. In their comics, he was still being shown crippled physically, and mentally, so they could justify Kyle having the only ring.
Shamed into FINALLY bringing John back!
Who was quickly "fixed" and made GL of the Justice League.

Funny Kyle was still GL of the main GL book. He wasn't buried until Johns put a knife in his back and cleared him out for Hal.

John getting fixed was about MONEY and complaints by stores saying folks were looking for stories of a black GL. Never mind the fact those store didn't order the comic book version of the book that would have solved that issue.

[Carabas]

I think you're right nowadays. But historically, Kyle's fans have seemed to be the main ones who want their boy to be the one and only.

To be fair, Kyle's whole deal was that there wasn't a Green Lantern Corps and that he was the one and only Green Lantern in the entire universe. That's what DC made the character about when they launched it.

[DrNewGod]

That actually would have been a terrible idea. Under Johns's run, the Green Lantern brand sold, and thus justified having several spinoff titles. Same goes with Batman. A complete reboot means taking away so many viable characters that could sell their own title. It also means that you lose a safety net to fall back on when your first run fails. Look at the Teen Titans franchise. Lobdell tried to create a team from scratch with little or no association, and significantly altered characters to the point where the only things they shared in common with the previous iterations were their names. And it was received so poorly to the point where it needed a refresh, but had nothing to fall back on. In the past, whenever writers wanted to renew interest in the Titans, they would just revisit the old Wolfman team, or the Young Justice lineup. In the New 52, that option wasn't available. And now, DC's trying to repair the Teen Titans brand by using space and time shenanigans to re-introduce the original Titans back into continuity.

I get what you're saying. There's a degree to which I even agree with it (i.e. you'd think DC would have learned about trying to do scorched-earth reboots from 1986, but no). They were trading short term gains for an inevitable long-term mess.

However, being determined to reboot, it was foolish and confusing of them to try carrying specific pieces of the old continuity into the new one and claiming they all happened in the preceding five years. It would have been better (IMO) to let Johns and Morrison finish their arcs on those stories before rebooting, perhaps timing the reboot to coincide with Action Comics 75th anniversary.

The only thing worse than a continuity reboot (IMO) is attempting a half-measures reboot.

[joybeans]

I think DC would have been better off with just a realignment than a reboot. Shift Barry, Bruce, etc into their traditional roles, bring back newbie-friendly status quos without chopping out the history, and then renumber everything. Keep characters like Wally West around on the sidelines, so that even if they weren't used right away, a future writer can step in and find a use for him. Keep the proverbial toys in the box instead of throwing out all the old ones, because someone else might want to play with them some day.

[JackDaw]

I think DC would have been better off with just a realignment than a reboot. Shift Barry, Bruce, etc into their traditional roles, bring back newbie-friendly status quos without chopping out the history, and then renumber everything. Keep characters like Wally West around on the sidelines, so that even if they weren't used right away, a future writer can step in and find a use for him. Keep the proverbial toys in the box instead of throwing out all the old ones, because someone else might want to play with them some day.

But given that we all know that any character can be resurrected at any time...witness Hal Jordan and Barry Allen's return after ages away (just to mention 2!) there's really not much advantage really in just keeping them around doing nothing.

Indeed that's a hard line to take...you have to ask what such characters are doing, if they don't come to the aid of their friends in crisis after crisis. Barry Allen desperately needs help in some adventure... if Wally's around he helps. If he doesn't you're writing him completely out of character.

I'd have preferred making main story telling Earth much more stream-lined...relocating JSA characters, for example, to a world of their own. That worked pretty well for a couple of decades. But..I'm really not a prime DC customer anymore...I can easily see why DC went a different route, one that probably does please guys that buy a lot more comics than I.

[Trey Strain]

They just need to give them all titles as GREEN Lanterns and then let the chips fall where they may. No favoritism, no putting the most popular writers or artists on one or two of the titles, and no anointing anyone as "the greatest" or anyone as a "backup."

It would be very easy to do. Over in the Artist and Writer Showcase forum, I've posted some sample issues to show how just simple it would be. I haven't posted my John Stewart title yet, but it's coming.

[Güicho]

LOL they did.[/B]

Funny Kyle was still GL of the main GL book. He wasn't buried until Johns put a knife in his back and cleared him out for Hal.

"Buried" = Pure invention by some Kyle fans/Johns haters.
Johns treated Kyle with nothing but respect. The whole time though some Kyle fans were yelling - but he used to be special! He was the ONLY green Lantern ... Why isn't HE SPECIAL ANYMORE! And DC kowtowed to this at every turn, we got Kyle's continuing Scrappy-Doo adventures, as Magical-Ion Center of the universe, and then again as Mary-Sue-Rainbow-Lantern specialist Lantern of all!
They even ripped pages from John Stewart's Mosaic book, where he was once the artistic outside the box thinking GL, prophaside and chosen personally by the Guardians, to take the power to the next level. All that was scraped and given to Kyle instead.

If anyone should complain, it's John fans, who had to watch their character get crippled so Kyle could get the only ring, and then when they realized that wouldn't actually stop John from being a Green Lantern whose power runs on the will of the mind, not the physique, they crippled Johns brain too! (as they had done to Jordan), all to justify Kyle as the only GL.
Kyle fans have no business talking about "put a knife in his back and clearing the way" when Kyle's whole character and concept was built, and sustained, on the broken backs and minds of other Lanterns. LOL!
The ones complaining about the Corps and Earth's original Corps Lanterns coming back to prominence, were largely Kyle fans.

Am I crazy or are GL fans completely irrational about this???

Yes it's true, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Again; Green Lantern built around the unique Corps concept, which implicitly allowed for multiple characters to share and/or swap the power and title, allows for it.
It's for better and worse a concept which is able to build up to, a multi-character, and multi-book, franchise.
With that , comes the favoritism.

[hammergiant]

There is merit to the argument that certain of the Green Lanterns have been sidelined, or put in peripheral books, if you will. Post-Rebirth, Kyle and Guy were exiled to deep space as part of the Green Lantern Corps. I don't think Kyle has been back to Earth in anything more than a cameo since. John and Hal were chosen to be the GL's of the sector Earth was in, but John never made it into the Green Lantern book for an actual story. He did take the GL roster spot in the Justice League, once Hal left and McDuffie began to write the book. But, Hal always comes back to the League and soon John was also exiled out to a reshuffled GLC. Kyle went to New Guardians and Guy bounced around a couple of other books. Now, Kyle is in Omega Men, for some reason. John and Guy are in the Lost Army. Hal is a renegade (again).

Green Lantern continuity makes about as much sense as Robin continuity these days.

[Crazy Diamond]

"Buried" = Pure invention by some Kyle fans/Johns haters.
Johns treated Kyle with nothing but respect. The whole time though some Kyle fans were yelling - but he used to be special! He was the ONLY green Lantern ... Why isn't HE SPECIAL ANYMORE! And DC kowtowed to this at every turn, we got Kyle's continuing Scrappy-Doo adventures, as Magical-Ion Center of the universe, and then again as Mary-Sue-Rainbow-Lantern specialist Lantern of all!
They even ripped pages from John Stewart's Mosaic book, where he was once the artistic outside the box thinking GL, prophaside and chosen personally by the Guardians, to take the power to the next level. All that was scraped and given to Kyle instead.

If anyone should complain, it's John fans, who had to watch their character get crippled so Kyle could get the only ring, and then when they realized that wouldn't actually stop John from being a Green Lantern whose power runs on the will of the mind, not the physique, they crippled Johns brain too! (as they had done to Jordan), all to justify Kyle as the only GL.
Kyle fans have no business talking about "put a knife in his back and clearing the way" when Kyle's whole character and concept was built, and sustained, on the broken backs and minds of other Lanterns. LOL!
The ones complaining about the Corps and r Earth's origianl Corps Lanterns coming back to prominence, were largely Kyle fans.


Yes it's true, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Again; Green Lantern built around the unique Corps concept, which implicitly allowed for multiple characters to share and/or swap the power and title, allows for it.
It's for better and worse able buildup to a multi-character, and book, franchise. With that, comes the favoritism.

John Stewart was in trouble before Kyle was even introduced. Mosaic got cancelled because an editor didn't like the book. They didn't care that the book sold well or that fans liked it; they wanted it gone and by issue 5 it had been cancelled. Before that, Katma Tui was killed in a lousy story to build up Star Sapphire as a serious villain and Cosmic Odyssey happened where out of all the teams available, the one lead by a Black man (who wasn't even supposed to be in the damn story) was the one who failed. Then there was Stewart being the star of GL after Hal retired. That sold well but once Hal came back John started being marginalized more and more and more. If it hadn't been for the JL cartoon (which was done by fans of John Stewart) I don't think he would still be around. Blaming Kyle ignores the general problem DC and Marvel have had pushing Black characters time and time again.

As a fan of John Stewart, I did not understand how a character which was well received on TV all of sudden could not play a major role in any storyline when Johns was on the GL book. I remember how either Didio and Johns said that all four GLs would be treated equally. Then I read GL and GLC and noticed how Hal and John's "partnership" was handled compared to Kyle and Guy's. John rarely showed up and when he did matter it was either to do something kewl (ex. sniping that snail guy from the Sinestro Corps), mope about Xanshi, or be put in a situation (which never seemed to happen to anyone else) where he would have to kill. It's like Johns got his idea of what Stewart should be from the first five minutes of the first episode of the first season of Justice League. It was really ridiculous especially since JLU was on at the same time. Then, DC decided for whatever reason that John had to be killed off while talking out of the other side of their mouth about how they wanted to promote diversity.

The thing with GL is that due to years of stuff like that, they have a broken fanbase. Different people want different things from GL and they can't accommodate everybody so usually something has to give. It's kinda like Sonic the Hedgehog in that way.

[Güicho]

John Stewart was in trouble before Kyle was even introduced....

Ok. They could have put John in the main Corps book, instead of Kyle, Kyle already had Ion. Jonhs wasn't even writing those books, you can't blame him for everything. LOL!
Look to the editor of the Corps book at the time. . And again ask yourself why Kyle became Guardian of the Universe, not John Stewart, who was actually prophesied to it.
As to how John ended up in a wheelchair, and without the will power to be a GL, again check the editors of Kyle's book.
The supposed "last ring" should have gone to John, who was right there on Mosaic(Oa) instead, they ignored John even existed, and had Ganthet fly all the way to earth to give it away randomly to anyone.
Then so they could justify Kyle having the only ring they crippled John.

Truth is DC editorial loves the schism created by the Corps concept, and the possibility of many GLs of Earth.
It's how they've played it since the intro of Earth's second Corps Lantern. And they've been playing them (and the fans) off each other since.
The rivalry and favoritism, and buzz good and bad it creates sells.

[Güicho]

[hammergiant]

Ok. They could have put John in the main Corps book, instead of Kyle, Kyle already had Ion. Jonhs wasn't even writing those books, you can't blame him for everything. LOL!
Look to the editor of the Corps book at the time. . And again ask yourself why Kyle became Guardian of the Universe, not John Stewart, who was actually prophesied to it.
As to how John ended up in a wheelchair, and without the will power to be a GL, again check the editors of Kyle's book.
The supposed "last ring" should have gone to John, who was right there on Mosaic(Oa) instead, they ignored John even existed, and had Ganthet fly all the way to earth to give it away randomly to anyone.
When John was right there!
Then so they could justify Kyle having the only ring they crippled John.

You know, for someone who likes to bag on Kyle fans, you display a awful lot of animosity toward one Kyle Rayner.

[joybeans]

Well, I hope these posts answer OP's questions.

[Claude]

I like that Guy's taking off his mask dramatically. Presumably so Hal will realise who this mystery assailant is.