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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    That would be assuming that they didn't get Pak an exclusive deal because they didn't offer him one and not because Pak refused it for whatever reason. Which we don't really have any way of knowing.
    pak was Marvel exclusive from 2005 to 2010. now idk if it was him that didn't wanted to renew or it was Marvel. if they wanted him, they would had just renew it.

  2. #32
    Mighty Member manduck37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayswift View Post
    pak was Marvel exclusive from 2005 to 2010. now idk if it was him that didn't wanted to renew or it was Marvel. if they wanted him, they would had just renew it.
    Unless Marvel wanted to renew but Pak wasn't interested. He may have wanted to move on to other projects not at Marvel. It's not like Marvel is the only one who has a say in the contracts. No writer/artist is under any obligation to work for Marvel just because they want that person.

  3. #33

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    So good. That second "SHAKOOOOM!" panel really sums up what makes this title consistently great; it's fun, moves at a great pace and looks gorgeous. I was a bit worried that the reveal of Wrath would take away a lot from the parallells to real world events that started showing up in Action #42, but while it hasn't been revealed yet I'm fairly sure that the general societal climate (institutionalized racism, fear, general chauvinism) worked as a prerequisite for her to make her move in the first place.

  4. #34
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayswift View Post
    pak was Marvel exclusive from 2005 to 2010. now idk if it was him that didn't wanted to renew or it was Marvel. if they wanted him, they would had just renew it.

    Obviously Marvel does want him (at least to some extend) since they've been giving him new series, like Storm or the New Hulk book. It just so happen that exclusive contracts are less of a thing than 10 years ago (where it was pretty much the standard deal), and more and more writers now do work for both companies.
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  5. #35
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The whole argument is stupid to begin with. To like him or to not like him is one's own prerogative of course. But I don't get the need to try and fuel that with claims that one company or another doesn't want the guy working for them. That goes beyond just not liking a book and into immature ax-to-grind territory.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderLuthor View Post
    *Spoiler* The shadow lady, Wrath, is working for/with Vandal Savage. In B/S there is a a sun-like power source created by WayneTech that Vandal steals and on the last page Wrath and he meet up and talk about conquering the world
    Thanks Luther
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  7. #37
    Astonishing Member AlexanderLuthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The whole argument is stupid to begin with. To like him or to not like him is one's own prerogative of course. But I don't get the need to try and fuel that with claims that one company or another doesn't want the guy working for them. That goes beyond just not liking a book and into immature ax-to-grind territory.
    I certainly have no axe to grind with Greg Pak. I've met him many times at conventions and you won't meet a nicer guy. I was told point blank by someone at Marvel, that while they think he is capable, they didn't see that spark of greatness they wanted in exclusive. But hey, maybe he was wrong. My larger point is that sometimes I read these threads on Action and I feel like I missed something because people describe it on a level of Warren Ellis and Brian K. Vaughan. I'm not sure is it's because for the greater part of 20 years Action has largely been shite or what. Because his work on Batman/Superman, Storm, at Valiant and on is largely considered mediocre. But, to each his/her own, glad many are enjoying it. I just think a story featuring Superman revealing his identity, Lois Lane outing him, losing his powers and essentially being run out of Metropolis would be MUCH bigger than this

  8. #38
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I just feel he gets the character on a Grant Morrison-like level. But that's me, I get other people may not feel the same way. And I just don't see what Marvel thinks one way or the other in regards to exclusivity being that relevant. They're no better or no worse at evaluating talent than DC or any other publisher in my view.

    And personally I don't feel the story could be or should be that much bigger, unless you were to force a company wide event out of it. Other than that, I mean, he's lost his powers dozens upon dozens of times. That's nothing new. Really the only things that could be portrayed as remotely unique and are the identity outing and Lois being responsible. Lois's reveal fell largely flat, that's for sure, but Superman was responsible for the Lois end of things though so that's not on Pak. And the identity being outed I think has been played up and explored to a great degree in Action and Superman/Wonder Woman.

    I think the expectations for this concept as a whole for something visionary and revitalizing to the Superman mythos ran a little too high among some, personally. The identity being outed has legs, but again I think that has been appropriately explored thus far and will continue to be. And even though Lois's ultimate reveal of the identity to the world fell flat, it still can be utilized in regards to their dynamic with one another going forward. So I would argue the nuances of the idea there have yet to fail.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-10-2015 at 04:44 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I just feel he gets the character on a Grant Morrison-like level. But that's me, I get other people may not feel the same way. And I just don't see what Marvel thinks one way or the other in regards to exclusivity being that relevant. They're no better or no worse at evaluating talent than DC or any other publisher in my view.

    And personally I don't feel the story could be or should be that much bigger, unless you were to force a company wide event out of it. Other than that, I mean, he's lost his powers dozens upon dozens of times. That's nothing new. Really the only things that could be portrayed as remotely unique and are the identity outing and Lois being responsible. Lois's reveal fell largely flat, that's for sure, but Superman was responsible for the Lois end of things though so that's not on Pak. And the identity being outed I think has been played up and explored to a great degree in Action and Superman/Wonder Woman.

    I think the expectations for this concept as a whole for something visionary and revitalizing to the Superman mythos ran a little too high among some, personally. The identity being outed has legs, but again I think that has been appropriately explored thus far and will continue to be. And even though Lois's ultimate reveal of the identity to the world fell flat, it still can be utilized in regards to their dynamic with one another going forward. So I would argue the nuances of the idea there have yet to fail.
    I so very much agree! So few writers seem to grasp the true compassion at the heart of the character.

  10. #40
    Mighty Member manduck37's Avatar
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    I'll agree with others that the issue felt a bit rushed, but I did enjoy it. I've said before that I would have preferred more delving into social issues than battling bad guys to really play on the man of the people/Golden Age feel. Though I still found this to be more enjoyable than issues past. It didn't really feel like the end of an arc, but rather more set up. I didn't care for the kind of cliche about face of the one officer who was against Superman and then totally on his team. It felt like that movie cliche where a guy is racist until someone comes along and saves his life, thus teaching a valuable life lesson. I get that it's shorthand for that character's journey, I just personally don't care for it. Though I did really like the group of kids who Jimmy believes broke into Clark's apartment and are still clearly prejudiced against Clark. It was a nice reminder that some of those social issues are still there somewhere, even while battling monsters and villains. The Wrath/Vandal connection is something I found intriguing though and I hope they do something interesting with it. Vandal Savage is a villain we don't see Supes tangle with too often and he feels like an epic enough villain that Superman would have to deal with. So it was fun to see it tie into Batman/Superman with Wrath. Side note, I wish that they hadn't reused the name Wrath.

  11. #41
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    Just read it, along with this month's Batman/Superman and Superman/Wonderwoman.

    This was ... a rather weak ending (to the extent that it is one). I love some of the sentiments Pak imbues the book with -- the righteous anger, the community, etc. -- all are bringing back into focus the rough-'n'-tumble populist Superman I enjoy.

    But the issue itself falls flat. The action is unfortunately murky, and Wrath is as stock in personality as a stock villain can get. I'd love to see Pak take some of his solid characterization of the heroes and apply that to the villains, because at this point there's an embarrassing disparity. Ending Batman/Superman with a "time to take over the world" is ... geez, I don't know how you can write that in an otherwise fairly progressive title without your tongue in your cheek, but there it is.

    At the end of the first arc of the new status quo (though they seem to be going right along with their serialized, vaguely interconnected stories), Superman/Wonderwoman has thus far come out the winner for me, although the first two issues of Action were incredible in terms of both relevance and on-page action/craftsmanship, both of which took a dive in the following two chapters.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Liked the issue, but I'm not a fan of this villain team-up. I'm readying Superman and Action, ready to drop B/S and really not interested in S/WW. If this is going to build towards some mega crossover where I have to get all 4 Superman titles to get complete story then I'm going to do same thing that I did with Doomed - skip those Action issues and likely drop Superman.

    As for the Wrath, am I the only one who thought that Wrath is one of the deadly sins as seen in Shazam! and Pandora stories?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderLuthor View Post
    I certainly have no axe to grind with Greg Pak. I've met him many times at conventions and you won't meet a nicer guy. I was told point blank by someone at Marvel, that while they think he is capable, they didn't see that spark of greatness they wanted in exclusive. But hey, maybe he was wrong.
    I'm not sure how accurate this list is: https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comm...rs_that_go_to/ but I see at least 3 names that are noticeably worse than Pak.

  13. #43

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    Loving AC right now.
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