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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    At the end of the first movie when he turned back time for the entire planet because his not even girlfriend yet was dead
    I know about it.
    What I said is that when did Reeve Superman imposes his will on the entire world by using his extreme individual competence to step in ?
    It has nothiing to do with what I am saying.
    And It is only miracle. Superman didn't do that intentionally.


    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It's ramblings on the internet. There is not always logic there to understand.
    I see.


    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It could be argued that every character ever written by Frank Miller is fascist to some degree. He was less fascist than Batman anyway.
    Up to a point all superheroes believe that they are right and that the rest of the world is wrong, and that it is their job to fix that. Might makes right is in the DNA of every superhero.
    I agree that every character written by Miller is fascist to some degree and His Batman is far more fascistic than his Superman. So Why don't people bash Batman as fascist? He is far more fascistic.
    As for latter, No. Superhero(Especially Superman) is right because they help opressed and innocent people at any cost and defeat unjust. Not because They are powerful. If Power makes right, Lex Luthor or Darkseid is greatest hero.
    Indeed, Superhero use violence for their purpose though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    That doesn't matter. Superman is a story, an infinitely mutable and changeable story.
    But, It is fact There are many story that disrespect Superman's idea and Superman is hugely out of character.
    If people use such stories as evidence that Superman is villainous fascist, They must be Hater or troll, aren't they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    They're main universe proper canon Supermen.
    Starting with the '38 Siegel & Shuster Superman who was a violent thug.
    Indeed, Superman began as violent vigilante. But He didn't oppress inocent people, he did his best to help opressed at any cost. It is far from fascism.
    And Public image We know is that of Silver Age Superman or Post Crisis Superman who are main universe proper canon.When are these Superman so fascistic?
    In fact, Do you think that Superman is immoral fascist?


    BTW, I think people bashing Superman as fascist doesn't see Superman. What They see is what They want to see. People only want to see the being with absolute power and angelic nature like Superman corrupt and become evil. They don't care about what Superman truly is. They only want to see absolute good becomes evil. So They bash Superman using rare case.
    Isn't it only cynicism or Nihilism that no one can be good? Superman is fairy tale for children that Man can be far better and greater than he is now. So Superman is persnification of such a dream for children. If people bash it as "unreal" or "impossible" or "hypocritical". They are only chidish and too nihilistic to a extent they bash even only fairytale = dream for children.
    What do you think?
    Last edited by catman; 09-09-2015 at 04:28 AM.

  2. #17
    Mighty Member Ragdoll's Avatar
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    People who have definite Yes or No answer to this question need to give this a second thought. Because Superman both is and isn't a fascist, and it depends entirely on who is writing the book and what message they are trying to get across.

    Sometimes we get the rebel Superman who fights all injustice, even the government's (like in current Action Comics, fighting the police).

    But then we get the self righteous, my-way-or-the-highway Superman who makes me think that Lex Luthor is right and Clark is our NSA overlord.

    This is the case with all superhero comics, to some extend. But Superman's power levels are off the charts compared to the rest so that he is the one people fixate on. But comics have enough writers whose morality I disagree with to the point where I am actively routing for villains in tons of comics. And once in a while, a writer is so good that I am routing for the villains, and I can tell the writer actually wanted the readers to be on the villains side. I love when writers are subtly pro-villain and heavily imply the hero is in the wrong for "saving the day".

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I think occasionally that People bashing Superman as Fascist are in paraarell with religion hating type Atheist bashing God as Fascistic dictator.
    If so, Is Superman some sort of american god?
    People may bash Superman as People bash religious icon.
    What do you think?
    Superman tries to help people when natural disasters happen rather than sitting back and letting people die. He's not remotely in the same ballpark as God.

    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    And It is only miracle. Superman didn't do that intentionally.
    What on Earth gave you that impression?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    What on Earth gave you that impression?
    I thought that he reversed time by accelerating until ftl speed. But Isn't his max speed is sub-light speed? So I thought that it is miracle.

    BTW, Do you think that Superman is violent fascist?
    I think it is baseless though.

  5. #20
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    I don't think the '38 - '39 Superman was a violent thug, but it's been a while since I read all those stories. So rather than talking about it now, I'm going to go back and read all of those stories again. It will take me some time to do that, but after I've read all the stories, I think I'll make a blog about that period of Superman history.
    "We will meet again."

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I don't think the '38 - '39 Superman was a violent thug, but it's been a while since I read all those stories. So rather than talking about it now, I'm going to go back and read all of those stories again. It will take me some time to do that, but after I've read all the stories, I think I'll make a blog about that period of Superman history.
    I can't understand what is fascistic about Superman.
    Do you unerstand why some people say so?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragdoll View Post
    People who have definite Yes or No answer to this question need to give this a second thought. Because Superman both is and isn't a fascist, and it depends entirely on who is writing the book and what message they are trying to get across.

    Sometimes we get the rebel Superman who fights all injustice, even the government's (like in current Action Comics, fighting the police).

    But then we get the self righteous, my-way-or-the-highway Superman who makes me think that Lex Luthor is right and Clark is our NSA overlord.

    This is the case with all superhero comics, to some extend. But Superman's power levels are off the charts compared to the rest so that he is the one people fixate on. But comics have enough writers whose morality I disagree with to the point where I am actively routing for villains in tons of comics. And once in a while, a writer is so good that I am routing for the villains, and I can tell the writer actually wanted the readers to be on the villains side. I love when writers are subtly pro-villain and heavily imply the hero is in the wrong for "saving the day".
    Hardly. Look at what Green Lantern and Flash have been able to pull for years. Contrary to what people claim, Superman is not the most powerful being in the entire DCU.

    This is also why stories of Superman going bad tend to annoy me; they rely on the other heroes being useless or just falling in line with him.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Hardly. Look at what Green Lantern and Flash have been able to pull for years. Contrary to what people claim, Superman is not the most powerful being in the entire DCU.
    Yeah, but when you ask somebody who is not a comicbook fan, they'll tell you the Flash can ru really fast and Green Lantern can make big, green boxing gloves, and that's about it.
    Public perception does not match fandom perception.
    Hell, ask a comicbook fanatic who has never liked the Flash and doesn't read it and he'll tell you he's kinda like Quicksilver but not as cool.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I thought that he reversed time by accelerating until ftl speed. But Isn't his max speed is sub-light speed? So I thought that it is miracle.
    I don't think they ever stated his max speed in the films. In the comics at the time he could easily go faster than light.

    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    BTW, Do you think that Superman is violent fascist?
    No

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    I don't think they ever stated his max speed in the films. In the comics at the time he could easily go faster than light.
    I thought that Jor-El said that Superman can accelerate until near-light speed at best.
    It may be paramnesia. So I will see Reeve Superman soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    No
    Me too.
    Last edited by catman; 09-10-2015 at 06:41 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I can't understand what is fascistic about Superman.
    Do you unerstand why some people say so?
    How many times do you hear entertainment reporters parroting lines about the Marvel heroes, when talking about the Marvel movies, echoing the usual talking points? Marvel characters are more relatable, Stan Lee was a genius, the X-Men is about civil rights, yadda yadda. Do they actually know this--have they read and studied Marvel comics and the history of comics? No, they got this from someone else and they're just repeating the same tired refrain.

    I think it's the same sort of thing with "Superman is a Fascist." The people who repeat this mantra don't read the comic books--or, if they do, they read them through the filter of what's already been said about Superman.

    Just like I'm sure a lot of people now have seen FAMILY GUY, and what it has to say about the Christopher Reeve Superman movies, before they ever get around to watching the movies. So they're seeing the Reeve Superman through the eyes of FAMILY GUY.
    "We will meet again."

  12. #27
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    Superman Red Son, Injustice For All Superman, Irredeemable, the Sentry,,, I think people enjoy reading about tyrant/fascist Superman because he gets to be top dog and become total power fantasy wish fulfillment. GL and Flash as more powerful? Wow, I want to read about evil Superman right now when I read stuff like that. Less time in Batman vs. Superman? And they cancelled the sequel? Thanks Zack Snyder, I even liked Man of Steel. Nice guy Superman, the kid from Kansas, he gets walked on. People call him a fascist because they publish so many evil superman comics, that hits the spot for now and days. But no he's not a fascist, he's us at our best.
    Last edited by Johnny Thunders!; 09-10-2015 at 06:30 PM.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    I thought that Jor-El said that Superman can accelerate until near-light speed at best.
    Well he did say that it was forbidden to turn back time so he must have known it was possible. Maybe what he was saying was that he was allowed to near light speed at best because going faster would turn back time.

  14. #29
    Incredible Member Ishmael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    As Title say, People bash Superman as Fascist. I often see such a statemrnt in many media.
    But Isn't it baseless? If He is fascist in Comics like Injustice Superman, Entire world in comics will be dominated in one night. He doesn't use his power for his selfish reason, So He is Superman. Why do people make such a statement? Is there some basis that They call Superman fascist? If there is, What basis is it?
    So What do you think about it?
    It's the result of Frank Miller's portrayal of Superman in Dark Knight Returns. That book unfortunately not only redefined Batman for the "modern era" of comics, but Superman as well. He portrayed Superman as not only a stooge for the government, but for a corrupt government -- which turned Superman into a fascist tool. That perception has unfortunately become ingrained in many people's view of the character.

    I hate it.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Thunders! View Post
    Superman Red Son, Injustice For All Superman, Irredeemable, the Sentry,,, I think people enjoy reading about tyrant/fascist Superman because he gets to be top dog and become total power fantasy wish fulfillment. GL and Flash as more powerful? Wow, I want to read about evil Superman right now when I read stuff like that. Less time in Batman vs. Superman? And they cancelled the sequel? Thanks Zack Snyder, I even liked Man of Steel. Nice guy Superman, the kid from Kansas, he gets walked on. People call him a fascist because they publish so many evil superman comics, that hits the spot for now and days. But no he's not a fascist, he's us at our best.
    SO, Does people bash Superman as fascist because people want to see evil Superman(including Sentry or Plutonian) or Superman is corrupted?
    Isn't it hugely biased? And It is far from what Superman really is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
    It's the result of Frank Miller's portrayal of Superman in Dark Knight Returns. That book unfortunately not only redefined Batman for the "modern era" of comics, but Superman as well. He portrayed Superman as not only a stooge for the government, but for a corrupt government -- which turned Superman into a fascist tool. That perception has unfortunately become ingrained in many people's view of the character.

    I hate it.
    But, Isn't Superman's public image is that of Silver Age or Post Crisis who is good-hearted boyscout?
    I don't think that Non comic reader know well about DKR Superman.

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