Amazing Spider-Man #5: Renew Your Vows- Thoughts and Spoilers

[boots]

I don't know really.

But just myself, it didn't feel like RYV was a slap in the face to say a married Spiderman wouldn't work. It felt very plausible especially given the happy ending points to a plausable married SM.

But let's say it is an essay about how Spiderman can't be married, what is the evidence? Spidey doesn't act on his original vow to chase all crimes. Spidey doesn't help the super heroes in their last battle. Spidey hides for years, because he wants to protect his daughter. But Spidey breaks even this vow, and goes public again, getting his identity out in the open and getting captured, thus ruining his vow to protect even his family. How do these arguments hold up?

Well, we just saw the result of all these arguments, and that was, Hawkeyes miracle arrow de powering Regent, if, 3 spider family fought Regent together. So what is the lessen with this revelation? The Spider family should have come forward long ago and beaten Regent? No, they couldn't have done what they did in RYV until Annie came of age where she could bounce around effectively with her powers and beat up people. RYV was the only time the Spider family could have taken on and beaten Regent.

so ultimately, what do you think? if it's saying anything on the fan discourse- it seems to be that a family complicates things (how can it not). i find the progression of decisions (and lessons learned) that you summarised to be pretty believable.

[boots]

There is no "lesson" that they are trying to teach. Dan Slott wanted to write a fun marriage story that the mandate wouldn't allow so he seized the opportunity when it presented itself in the form of Secret Wars.

fair enough, i was just riffing off what some posters were positing at the outset.

Having said that, it was completely reasonable for the marriage fans to be wary after OMiT and the Superior tease. The fact that Slott used the words "Monkey wrench" while talking about RYV didn't help either, as he previously had said Superior would be a monkey wrench for the Peter/MJ fans and boy did he mean it then.

yeah, but to me that can mean a whole bunch of things related to so many story elements. it's fans that made the link between monkey wrench and marriage. is it a fair link to presume? i suppose so, but it's a bit bloody obvious.

what were the OMiT and Superior teases?

Personally, I wasn't expecting something as mean-spirited as "THIS is why the marriage doesn't work, whiny nerdlings!" but something along the lines of "For the Man Who Has Everything", a tribute to family man Peter Parker but with a terribly downer ending. The fact that I was completely wrong about the ending makes the real RYV happy ending that much more wonderful for me.

yeah, i'm interested in how the predictions bear out. there seems to be (roughly) three types: general (as in "trying out my inner writer" and trying to work off the story logic as presented), hopeful (as in "this is what i want, and i'd love it if marvel made it happen") and fearful (based on a fear and distrust of the company "marvel are like this so they will do this"). the third really interests me, especially after seeing what went down with the "spiderverse" predictions.

[jimishim12]

Everyone praising this issue, I ask you one thing. How the heck can you like a super OP villain like regent being defeated by a normal woman and a child with a hero under his fighting class, I mean Peter is known for his take downs of people more powerful than him but that's because it's a process of guile and endurance and mostly relying on sheer luck than pure skill. Put I refuse to believe that 2 obviously inferior people that are riddled with Plot Shield they would be able to contribbute against more of Regent's class consistently. It's PIS to even have MJ fight superhuman being, because that's called a plot tumor in the natural logistics of battle and reason. MJ is not Peak human, she is not buld to take on beings that naturally resist bullets and or punches, and she doesn't have the fighting capacity to hurt them even if they aren't.

Annie is too young, and to inexperienced to be fighting people to begin with, she's what 8? I'd call her a mary sue if she has managed to come through this arc unharmed and still more valuable in taking down Regent than the freaking hero. I mean it's obvious this arc is wish washing and simplifying Spider-Man for a certain part of the fandom not the fandom in general but it's off putting that RYV makes Peter and his family down grade Fantastic Four and manages to make it seem unrealistic to me than say Spidey being Rich.

[Agent Z]

Everyone praising this issue, I ask you one thing. How the heck can you like a super OP villain like regent being defeated by a normal woman and a child with a hero under his fighting class, I mean Peter is known for his take downs of people more powerful than him but that's because it's a process of guile and endurance and mostly relying on sheer luck than pure skill. Put I refuse to believe that 2 obviously inferior people that are riddled with Plot Shield they would be able to contribbute against more of Regent's class consistently. It's PIS to even have MJ fight superhuman being, because that's called a plot tumor in the natural logistics of battle and reason. MJ is not Peak human, she is not buld to take on beings that naturally resist bullets and or punches, and she doesn't have the fighting capacity to hurt them even if they aren't.

Annie is too young, and to inexperienced to be fighting people to begin with, she's what 8? I'd call her a mary sue if she has managed to come through this arc unharmed and still more valuable in taking down Regent than the freaking hero. I mean it's obvious this arc is wish washing and simplifying Spider-Man for a certain part of the fandom not the fandom in general but it's off putting that RYV makes Peter and his family down grade Fantastic Four and manages to make it seem unrealistic to me than say Spidey being Rich.

Most of Peter's takedowns of higher powered beings are just as PIS. See him beating Fire-Lord or the X-Men in the first Secret Wars.

[Confuzzled]

Most of Peter's takedowns of higher powered beings are just as PIS.

'nuff said. There isn't anything more unbelievable about this takedown than any other takedown of an OP supervillain.

I actually liked how for once a Spidey-joke played a more direct role in bringing down the baddie.

[jimishim12]

Most of Peter's takedowns of higher powered beings are just as PIS. See him beating Fire-Lord or the X-Men in the first Secret Wars.

'nuff said. There isn't anything more unbelievable about this takedown than any other takedown of an OP supervillain.

I actually liked how for once a Spidey-joke played a more direct role in bringing down the baddie.

Cept Peter has powers and the capabilities and experience to fight. It's more jarring MJ can hit superhumans to begin with since she has no super human reflexes or even trained ones. Annie is a infant who just discovered hers.

Also Peter gets hurt, at least the high class villains hurt and harm him making his unbealiveable feats of winning at least less believable. MJ and Annie hardly get hurt from villain attacks because they'd die if the did and completely defeated Regents without getting a scratch.

[Confuzzled]

Cept Peter has powers and the capabilities and experience to fight. It's more jarring MJ can hit superhumans to begin with since she has no super human reflexes or even trained ones. Annie is a infant who just discovered hers.

Also Peter gets hurt, at least the high class villains hurt and harm him making his unbealiveable feats of winning at least less believable. MJ and Annie hardly get hurt from villain attacks because they'd die if the did and completely defeated Regents without getting a scratch.

They had help from Peter? They weren't in direct contact with Regent for the majority of the battle? Regent may have underestimated them for all the reasons you listed? Annie had Barton's arrow and knew about Regent's weakspot?

There is no issue here even if you really, REALLY want there to be one. But then again, I'm talking to the same person who keeps claiming Spider-Man is "becoming uncool" and "losing popularity" compared to other superheroes. Even when his merchandise sales and comic book sales, including RYV sales, prove otherwise. So maybe I should just save my breath instead.

[jackolover]

so ultimately, what do you think? if it's saying anything on the fan discourse- it seems to be that a family complicates things (how can it not). i find the progression of decisions (and lessons learned) that you summarised to be pretty believable.

What do I think? I'll tell you what I think. If the combined Avengers, X-Men, and Inhumans were beaten by one man, Regent, and 3 members of Parker's family beat this self same Regent, then the conclusion is, these 3 Parker's are far and above the best combination of opponents in Battleworld. Doom, you better watch out.

How did they beat Regent? Regent was obsessed with getting Spider sense, and after Peter broke out of the pod disconnecting him from Regent, Regent was blind again, and didn't suspect Annie approaching from above stabbing him with the Inhibitor arrow. He didn't kill Annie when he caught her, because he was still obsessed with spider sense and was drawn into believing Peter was the more valuable and the joke made Regent vulnerable to a Spiderman punch while Regent was depowered. MJ had previously been breaking pods disconnecting Regent from power sets as he tried to use them, saving Peter during the fight. Nobody else got this close to Regent in his fights to carry out this kind of distraction as the Parker's, because Regent underestimated the Parker's as civilians and a child. The other more disturbing qualities of the two powered Parker's is that they are super fast, with spider sense to avoid attack, and Annie is Hit Girl. The other is the phenomenal prowess of Peter that he broke out of a pod while dying, and this is the Peter who lifted tones off his body in ASM. #33 as a 15 year old. He's now about 30, so he's way more stronger than a 15 year old so Regent is lucky to have his head on.

And I haven't even addressed the Parker luck. Doc Ock killed Parker. Dead. And here he is.

[oldschool]

Everyone praising this issue, I ask you one thing. How the heck can you like a super OP villain like regent being defeated by a normal woman and a child with a hero under his fighting class, I mean Peter is known for his take downs of people more powerful than him but that's because it's a process of guile and endurance and mostly relying on sheer luck than pure skill. Put I refuse to believe that 2 obviously inferior people that are riddled with Plot Shield they would be able to contribbute against more of Regent's class consistently. It's PIS to even have MJ fight superhuman being, because that's called a plot tumor in the natural logistics of battle and reason. MJ is not Peak human, she is not buld to take on beings that naturally resist bullets and or punches, and she doesn't have the fighting capacity to hurt them even if they aren't.

Annie is too young, and to inexperienced to be fighting people to begin with, she's what 8? I'd call her a mary sue if she has managed to come through this arc unharmed and still more valuable in taking down Regent than the freaking hero. I mean it's obvious this arc is wish washing and simplifying Spider-Man for a certain part of the fandom not the fandom in general but it's off putting that RYV makes Peter and his family down grade Fantastic Four and manages to make it seem unrealistic to me than say Spidey being Rich.

The way I read it:

*Regent was cut off from his literal power supply (the heroes in tanks) so he had no access to their powers
*He as then stripped from his armor (thus he was no longer out of Peter's power class)
*Peter was not only fighting for his life but the lives of his wife and daughter, the most powerful motivator on earth and one Regent could not match
*Both MJ and Annie had the element of surprise on their side
*MJ used Regent's guard's armor to enhance her strength
*Annie's much smaller stature and speed was advantageous in the fight vs Regent
*Finally, Peter used his smarts---again---and got Regent to lower his guard for the final takedown.

[Steeler53]

What do I think? I'll tell you what I think. If the combined Avengers, X-Men, and Inhumans were beaten by one man, Regent, and 3 members of Parker's family beat this self same Regent, then the conclusion is, these 3 Parker's are far and above the best combination of opponents in Battleworld. Doom, you better watch out.

How did they beat Regent? Regent was obsessed with getting Spider sense, and after Peter broke out of the pod disconnecting him from Regent, Regent was blind again, and didn't suspect Annie approaching from above stabbing him with the Inhibitor arrow. He didn't kill Annie when he caught her, because he was still obsessed with spider sense and was drawn into believing Peter was the more valuable and the joke made Regent vulnerable to a Spiderman punch while Regent was depowered. MJ had previously been breaking pods disconnecting Regent from power sets as he tried to use them, saving Peter during the fight. Nobody else got this close to Regent in his fights to carry out this kind of distraction as the Parker's, because Regent underestimated the Parker's as civilians and a child. The other more disturbing qualities of the two powered Parker's is that they are super fast, with spider sense to avoid attack, and Annie is Hit Girl. The other is the phenomenal prowess of Peter that he broke out of a pod while dying, and this is the Peter who lifted tones off his body in ASM. #33 as a 15 year old. He's now about 30, so he's way more stronger than a 15 year old so Regent is lucky to have his head on.

And I haven't even addressed the Parker luck. Doc Ock killed Parker. Dead. And here he is.

Thank you for referencing my favorite Spider-Man issue EVER ASM 33 "The Final Chapter." The biggest mistake that villains and even heroes make when it comes to Spider-Man (except the FF who know him best) is they underestimate him. Which is why I detested 'Superior' and OMD and him surrendering. MJ (when written properly such as in RYV) is the same way, I think of that beat down of the Spider-Slayer. Even though she has no super-powers she is tough (to be married to someone so unique as Peter Parker requires it), and is relentless. Annie comes from that same stock and how she performed should shock no one. Will this version of the Parkers return? Of course. Why? Because although RYV was acclaimed, sold well and none of the three were killed off (especially MJ). RYV #5 was mostly a MJ and Annie Story, and basically showed that you can have a great Spider-Man comic WITH a married Pete and MJ (because MJ can play a major role in assisting Pete), and why OMD was the single biggest mistake in Spider-Man History (Clone Saga and Sins Past included). Thank you to Dan Slott for creating Annie and by bringing back MJ properly. I cannot wait to see them again.

[Aura Blaize]

The way I read it:

*Regent was cut off from his literal power supply (the heroes in tanks) so he had no access to their powers
*He as then stripped from his armor (thus he was no longer out of Peter's power class)
*Peter was not only fighting for his life but the lives of his wife and daughter, the most powerful motivator on earth and one Regent could not match
*Both MJ and Annie had the element of surprise on their side
*MJ used Regent's guard's armor to enhance her strength
*Annie's much smaller stature and speed was advantageous in the fight vs Regent
*Finally, Peter used his smarts---again---and got Regent to lower his guard for the final takedown.

This. I really don't understand why it's so hard to believe how Regent was taken down. Yes, he was a super powerful guy but he had a major weakness. The Parkers took advantage of that weakness.

[Vegeta]

*Regent was cut off from his literal power supply (the heroes in tanks) so he had no access to their powers
*He as then stripped from his armor (thus he was no longer out of Peter's power class)
*Peter was not only fighting for his life but the lives of his wife and daughter, the most powerful motivator on earth and one Regent could not match
*Both MJ and Annie had the element of surprise on their side
*MJ used Regent's guard's armor to enhance her strength
*Annie's much smaller stature and speed was advantageous in the fight vs Regent
*Finally, Peter used his smarts---again---and got Regent to lower his guard for the final takedown.

Pretty much this, I do wish the fight was longer and a bit more brutal (ala "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut" or Peter's first battle to the death with Morlun.) but the fact that the Parkers infiltrated his base and cut off access to his greater powers, as well as the inhibitor arrow makes it somewhat more easy to swallow. If anything, my biggest problem was Regent's out loud laugh at a joke that was really only eye rolling groan worthy. (And the fact that it relied on Regent taking the bait and actually asking why he was to only give Annie a quarter for an allowance.)

[Scott Taylor]

Read this again last night. My favorite part is "Face it Regent, you just hit the jackpot!" Everything in the book made total sense to me. Regent lost his spider-sense when Peter broke loose. Thats how Annie was able to punk him with the inhibitor arrow. Thats why Regent so desperately wanted spider-sense. It really is that good of a power.

[Aruran.]

I really enjoyed the series and the final issue wasn't a disappointment either.
Really this has to be Dan's best Spider-Man stories in the last two years.
All I can say about this issue, is that I can't stop laughing at the Spider-Cents joke.

All in all RYV really was a story that Dan would never have gotten to tell if it wasn't for Secret Wars because it was about Peter and his family overcoming adversity together.

I guess the elements that would be carried over would be Roman and some of his lackeys. But really the biggest thing would be what Peter realized, that he doesn't have to give up his morals to save his family. That if they're in danger he'll save them without killing the other person.

[Conn Seanery]

This thread is about Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows #5. Stay on topic, please.