Post-OMD Spider-Man vs. RYV Spider-Man

[Vegeta]

My thoughts exactly, especially considering how short a view we got into the RYV Universe was. One thing however I will say. I hated Peter killing Eddie Brock's Venom. I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around Spidey choosing to outright murder a villain, no matter the circumstances involved.

Well he's come close before, he would have beat Sin Eater to death if Daredevil didn't intervene. While I personally prefer that he doesn't (The resolution to the "Death of Gwen Stacy" comes to mind, he was ready to off Norman before he realized that it wouldn't bring her back, or make the pain go away) he's only human, and prone to mistakes. I wouldn't necessarily complain if one day Peter did let his emotions get the best of him, and then had to spend the rest of life reflecting on that mistake. (Toss it on the guilt pile with Uncle Ben and Gwenny!) but the story would have to be really well told.

Speaking of Venom, I could've swore they were teasing that the symbiote followed the Parkers home after Eddie's death. What with Pete's nightmares and Annie talking about "something under the bed." Not to mention the return to the Black costume at the end of issue 2.

[Vegeta]

Oh and as far as who I prefer, it's definitely the more mature and competent Spider-Man of RYV. The marriage and kid doesn't really matter to me, I just prefer my Spider-Man to be less of a dopey man-child. Plus, I dig the black costume!

[Frontier]

Oh and as far as who I prefer, it's definitely the more mature and competent Spider-Man of RYV. The marriage and kid doesn't really matter to me, I just prefer my Spider-Man to be less of a dopey man-child. Plus, I dig the black costume!

The marriage matters to me, and I like Annie, but this is probably the bigger reason I prefer RYV Peter to OMD Peter. He seems a lot more mature and competent compared to how Peter's been acting for a while, and it's a lot more enjoyable to read.

[Celgress]

I also find Mature Peter preferable to Man Child Peter.

[Celgress]

Well he's come close before, he would have beat Sin Eater to death if Daredevil didn't intervene. While I personally prefer that he doesn't (The resolution to the "Death of Gwen Stacy" comes to mind, he was ready to off Norman before he realized that it wouldn't bring her back, or make the pain go away) he's only human, and prone to mistakes. I wouldn't necessarily complain if one day Peter did let his emotions get the best of him, and then had to spend the rest of life reflecting on that mistake. (Toss it on the guilt pile with Uncle Ben and Gwenny!) but the story would have to be really well told.....

My thoughts exactly, if they did such a thing it would have to be a one off and very impactful in execution a seminal Spidey moment.

[Aura Blaize]

Eh...hard to say. I like elements of both. I REALLY would love it if RYV Pete would replace Mainline Pete, but at the same time, I like aspects of Main Pete. Like the fact that he's actually using his smarts as a career and not just scraping by. Give me RYV Pete with Main Pete's success and I'll be pretty damn happy.

[Zeitgeist]

5 issues versus a couple of years worth of status quo? Between the lines, just another single Peter vs. married to Mary Jane Spidey thread.

That said, the poll results sure don't seem to match the thread just far.

[cyberhubbs]

Sometimes I wonder just how folks define a "man-child."

[Spidercide]

RYV was a great story but it was a five issue mini - just enough to enjoy a sampling of that world and those characters. If it were to become the status quo, the usual complaining would quickly set in as it does with any status quo. Already by issue five, the cutesiness of it all was starting to bump up against the point where things could become grating pretty quickly. A terrific mini, which scratched an itch for alot of fans, but I'll be happy to get back to regular continuity.

Do you mean the POst-OMD continuity or the actual regular continuity lol.

You forget though, RYV was sort of the status quo for 20 years and in a warped way Spider-Girl. In a sense in reading RYV I saw how many old stories could be rendered new by virtue of the new status quo.

Still prefer the post spiderman, he's more determined and more idealistic, especially when he had never stoop low to kill people like Venom and Ock to protect his family, the Peter I know doesn't kill even in the most personal of desperate action.

Yes, Post-OMD is so determined. That's why all it took for him to fold like a lawn chair was for a would be genocidal mass murderer to say "You endangered a child that I totally nearly killed and gave a debilitating illness too. That makes you as bad as me if not worse!"

Also please. 616 Spider-Man nearly killed Kingpin for shooting Aunt May AND Norman Osborn for killing Gwen. For his child's safety when he was up against the ropes and it looked like Venom (a stronger foe) might win and literally eat his baby he wouldn't consider killing to save her? You've never been a parent. It wasn't stooping low, it was self-defence in a desperate situation. There were few other options and the stakes too high. Also your precious pre-OMD Spider-Man who'd never stoop so low as to kill someone, yeah he tortured a guy for information and broke into hotel rooms and continually let a violent thief go free just so he could have sex. He also lies to his elderly aunt every single day about how he is Spider-Man even though she used to know the truth and told him she'd rather know than him lie to her. He also invaded people's privacy to take paparazzi photos of them even though an invasion of his own privacy killed his girlfriend.

But okay, he is much more idealistic than the man who killed a physically powerful cannibalistic psycho mass murderer to prevent him potentially murdering a his own one year old child.

Also, Peter didn't kill Otto at all. In RYV #3 he is clearly still alive. And frankly would he kill to protect his family? Er...yeah he would. There is shittons of canon evidence to point to this, and those aren't even his kids.

My thoughts exactly, especially considering how short a view we got into the RYV Universe was. One thing however I will say. I hated Peter killing Eddie Brock's Venom. I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around Spidey choosing to outright murder a villain, no matter the circumstances involved.

The RYV Spider-Man is implied to have ostensibly an identical history to 616 Spider-Man up to a point. And really it's less about the history but the characterisation and status quo.

Did you like how RYV Peter was depicted compared to the 2008-2015 version of Spider-Man? Is the status quo of him as a married father something you enjoyed more than...whatever 2008-2015 was doing?

I prefer post-OMD Peter since I feel like more can be done with him, socially and heroically. RYVs sounds cool, but I wouldn't care for it to be in place for the long haul. The title should be about his ongoing adventures, not his semi-retired adventures.

RYV ended with Peter literally renewing his vows to both not kill and be Spider-Man. So you can have ongoing adventures with him no problem. Tom DeFalco's Mr. and Mrs. Spider-Man had a similar set up wherein Peter was a parent but still Spider-Man. He stopped due to it being a prequel series but you see my point.

No one seems to be discussing what precisely this ‘more’ that can be done with Post-OMD Spider-Man is? Thus far tweak and erase a few things here and there and most of the 2008-2015 story arcs could work with RYV Peter provided he was still Spider-Man, had a secret identity and wasn’t living under the Regent.

Post OMD Peter by far. Something about Peter killing his villains doesn't sit right with me. Don't get me wrong that while I'm a fan of heroes who have killed (who hasn't and if the haven't they will) and it doesn't bother me as much, its mostly because that's the sort of people they are. Kaine is a killer all things considered so seeing him kill a criminal is fine because he was and still is a criminal in a mask. While spider-man is a criminal as well (he is simply tolerated) I never got the impression that Peter was willing to do so. Yes Peter has killed people in the past but typically via accident. Peter Parker is just a character that to me would have large qualms against that sort of thing.

So long as his family is threatened Peter of RYV would probably snap someone's neck and while I can see him getting away with certain things on the grounds there hadn't been any other way and Peter could die or someone else could have died. I feel like this Peter is too much of a psycho when it comes to defending his family. He just gave me the impression that Peter took his power and responsibility to Kaine levels.

I am glad 616 Peter has never killed. But as a character, RYV Peter was easily more competent, together, effective and frankly interesting because he had more to lose and was much more down to Earth than the super scientist industrialist soon to be billionaire guy from post-’07.

The thing about Peter killing that too few people are taking into account is that whenever we’ve seen Peter not kill before the context has been ENTIRELY different. Ask any parent, having a kid changes you, it changes how you think and how you feel. And you would do almost anything to protet your kid. Peter has been violent and come close to outright murder when his loved ones have been threatened.

[Frontier]

Sometimes I wonder just how folks define a "man-child."

How do you define it, out of curiosity?

[Spidercide]

So when someone is threatening to kill his child who is right outside and is a known cannibal (Venom literally eats brains) Peter’s reaction at best will be unpredictable. You cannot simply say he’s never killed before so now he wouldn’t either. You don’t know if a Spider-Man who is a FATHER wouldn’t kill, just one who has been a son and a husband and a boyfriend. And if he got so angry he almost murdered someone for killing his first love, then the idea that in defence (not revenge, defence) of his own baby he’d kill is entirely believable, even defendable. His feelings for his girlfriend would grossly pale in comparison to those for his daughter. I mean yeah people will do a lot of stuff for their romantic partners, but with your children it goes beyond that. We are talking about getting down to the most basic of human instincts here, literally most human beings are biologically hardwired to protect their offspring and can’t help themselves but to do it. So there really is no issue with Peter crossing that line for Annie. I spoke to a very old Spider-Man fan from the 1970s who when reviewing issue #1 outright said if he needed to kill for his kids like Peter did he wouldn’t even hesitate.

I don’t think 616 Peter would cope if he did kill like that, but RYV Peter is an AU version so the gloves are off for that. He renewed his vow not to kill in RYV #5 so he wouldn’t have to do it ever again, specifically BECAUSE of Annie. I mean that was the whole point of the story. Bear in mind also that Peter in issue #3 DIDN’T kill Doc Ock.

Oh and as far as who I prefer, it's definitely the more mature and competent Spider-Man of RYV. The marriage and kid doesn't really matter to me, I just prefer my Spider-Man to be less of a dopey man-child. Plus, I dig the black costume!

Word although I want the wife and kid. Peter the parent is LONG overdue. It is the most tailored story for Spider-Man ever. He is entirely about responsibility and this is the biggest one.

I also find Mature Peter preferable to Man Child Peter.

Then why not consider a vote for RYV peter?

My thoughts exactly, if they did such a thing it would have to be a one off and very impactful in execution a seminal Spidey moment.

They couldn't have him kill in 616. We've invested too much in seeing him NOT kill. To have him kill but ultimately get over it would undermine those and make him guilty. It would be a poor inspiration to younger heroes and a too great a temptation for him to kill again in the future. I mean if nothing else there would be little tension in him stopping Doc ock's doomsday device when we know he could just kill him and it'd be immoral for him to NOT kill if we know he could do it and be okay. At this point 616 Peter killing has to be game over for him like it seemingly was for RYV Peter in issue #1.

Sometimes I wonder just how folks define a "man-child."

A passive whining immature ghost who needs to be rescued by newbie superheroes and civilians who've got a few days of battle experience compared to his 15+ years who is also a bumbler and bufoon who gets web diapered by friggin White Rabbit. Oh and who literally blames himself when Massacre, an incarcerated super villain kills a woman who willingly exposes herself to danger in the course of her work. And who stands by idly whilst a mass murder who stole his life gives his father figure a fucking motivational pep talk. JMS era Spider-Man he has not been.

And the person who passively listens when Mary jane delivers an entirely pointless, hurtful and unwarranted break up speech to him (even though they weren’t dating) about how hard she’s had it hours after HE’S come back to life and been victimized. And who shrugs off how his mind, body and life were violated.

[Vegeta]

Sometimes I wonder just how folks define a "man-child."

Someone that seems emotionally and/ or socially immature. Frequently engages in juvenile behavior. Whiney, has a 3rd grade sense of humor, not to mention an overall insecurity in who he is as a man, from which similar traits sprout.

Pete may seem to have his **** together career-wise currently, but you have to remember he fell ass-backwards into his job at Horizon. ("Hey, you can defuse a bomb, you must be super smart, have a dream job with lots of money and no real restrictions!") as well as getting his doctorate and own company through the efforts of Dr. Octopus.

He fell back on living with Aunt May when BND started, for awhile had a problem holding a steady job, bursts out laughing at the thought that he almost married MJ ("Whew, dodged that bullet!") Hasn't really had any serious relationship since then, (Carlie was it, and she had to blackmail the guy into it, the "Type A" woman who picks up his slack) but has had a few random hook ups. (Black Cat, drunken but not really drunken sex with Michelle.) He also has a habit now of idolizing other "more important" superheroes, such as Captain America and Iron Man (almost to the point of surrogate fathers) when in the past he wasn't all that impressed by them. Worse, a lot of his fellow Avengers treat him as an annoyance and a fool, despite the fact that he's bailed them out of the fire countless times back in "Marvel Team Up."

It's a whole lot of other little things, and really hard to label. You just know it when you see it. He doesn't have to have all the answers, but Marvel's current policy to maintain his youthfulness prevents him from truly moving forward in life.

[Mick Turpin]

I also find Mature Peter preferable to Man Child Peter.

Totally agree.

[Celgress]

My problem with RYV Spidey killing villains stems just as much from the editorial decision to let such a thing happen as the circumstances involved in universe. I think it was a backhanded f you to the fans in essence saying a married Spidey with a family would be more likely to cross that redline than the current 616 iteration of the character.

[Stormcrow]

You should have had included a Pre OMD option.

Ditto. I don't really care about a single grown-up Peter or him with anyone other than MJ, but at the same time the family man angle is too much.

The pre-OMD marriage was the perfect setting for me.