Earth 2 # 4 Spoilers

[Conway]

I feel like every post on this series boils down to "It's not the Justice Society."

World's End was petty compelling and gave us some great character interactions. And if there's a little melodrama involved in establishing the new status quo -- I have no idea what superhero books everyone's been reading that's devoid of such moments. This is one of the only team/greater DCU books that's completely free to go in whatever direction it wants, and to play with real stakes. I'm still completely on board for the ride, but I never went in looking for a JSA reboot.

There have been issues with the way PG was written since her appearance in the New 52. This does feel like a forced situation that will not only create conflict but allow Kara to rekindle the relationship with Holt. While there might be fans who are still waiting for the Justice Society, there are others that are slightly more constructive with their criticism.

Writing is difficult, and everyone has their own failings. This one has trouble with smooth dialogue and interaction. He did a good job last month showing us a side of Cyborg Lois we hadn't seen before. And this month he managed to describe the threat, and the consequences of the impending doom in a very subtle and effective manner. On the other hand he continued the ongoing issues with the characterization of the smartest and strongest woman in the DCU as desperate, emotional, and searching for male guidance and help. His inability to make any conversations flow in a manner that doesn't take us out of the moment is probably the thing that makes this title droppable though.

[Outside_85]

I'll chime in with the choir thats singing about not thinking the addition of Power Girl and Huntress was a boon to them or Earth-2.

Ok, so far I understood that PG was the one being homesick of the duo and Helena was pretty much settled on remaining on Earth-1. But right now it almost seems like everything has gone into reverse, Kara seems ok about this new world, while Helena is now onboard with Sloan's idea of remaking the new world to look more like Earth (which I don't quite understand unless it's some extended form of homesickness).

I agree that Kara is being totally unreasonable on this issues revelation... and only really serves to make Kara overly emotional, Val look inept and Sloan look even more evil than he already was, which was already stupidly exaggerated, yet people still kept working with him.

Dick appears to be living up to his name, and I can't say I like seeing him playing at being Frank Miller's Batman. The low-point in this issue is when he verbally spits Flash in the face. (Which I get the impression is more or less warranted from an operational standpoint... which ignores he's still just a kid tossed into world he didn't want to be a part of.)

[JaggedFel]

You can find a low point? The only high point of this was the Art. The story and characterization is just s%#*. Honestly, I think its clear our current writer has an issue with writing Characters who arent white.

[Outside_85]

You can find a low point? The only high point of this was the Art. The story and characterization is just s%#*. Honestly, I think its clear our current writer has an issue with writing Characters who arent white.

I think thats a gross statement, and completely wrong. Val is the only guy who act's like a normal levelheaded person while everyone who's white acts like a major butthole.

[Tayswift]

As I said in the other thread:

The relationship between the characters is worse than ever due that they're quite prompt to distrust, blame and fight each other for idiotic reasons.

One of the most stupid things that happened in the current issue though is that Terry Sloan told Kara that Val was indirectly culprit of the dead of her cousin and that was enough to make her break up with him, fight him and completely ignore her original mission of capturing Sloan. The actions of the cast are so forced that they're just ridiculous.

"Society" my ass.

character assassination of Kara. she would never do this. and what a cheap retcon of val, he was powerless, Taylor never wrote him as he was doing something for Sloan.

batman is literally a idiot. nobody explain how dick trained to be batman, another dead weight.

Fury showed up only on covers...

[Rakzo]

Honestly, this book can't be salvaged at this point, at least not with this writer at the helm.

There are several talented authors in DC's roster that could do a 10 times better job than this. Take for example Jeff Parker, he's currently doing wonders in Justice League United by focusing on obscure characters while developing strong characterization and team dynamics, that's exactly what Earth 2 needs at the moment. Plus, Parker obviously knows and loves Golden Age characters as seen in franchises like Captain Marvel and Flash Gordon, just put him here and let him do whatever he wants.

It's not hard to make a good job from this series DC, just make it happen.

Honestly I read these threads just for you, Rakzo. Always good material.

Happy to entertain at the very least my friend!

[ThomasBlake]

Honestly, this book can't be salvaged at this point, at least not with this writer at the helm.

There are several talented authors in DC's roster that could do a 10 times better job than this. Take for example Jeff Parker, he's currently doing wonders in Justice League United by focusing on obscure characters while developing strong characterization and team dynamics, that's exactly what Earth 2 needs at the moment. Plus, Parker obviously knows and loves Golden Age characters as seen in franchises like Captain Marvel and Flash Gordon, just put him here and let him do whatever he wants.

It's not hard to make a good job from this series DC, just make it happen.



Happy to entertain at the very least my friend!

Considering Mike Cotton is the reason we ended up with Wilson on Earth-2 and saw this book turned into complete schlock, I'd get rid of him too. Perhaps if DC replaced Cotton with one of the Justice League editors like Andy Khouri or Amadeo Turturro, we could see better talent attached to this book and the quality vastly improved.

[ThomasBlake]

I feel like every post on this series boils down to "It's not the Justice Society."

World's End was petty compelling and gave us some great character interactions. And if there's a little melodrama involved in establishing the new status quo -- I have no idea what superhero books everyone's been reading that's devoid of such moments. This is one of the only team/greater DCU books that's completely free to go in whatever direction it wants, and to play with real stakes. I'm still completely on board for the ride, but I never went in looking for a JSA reboot.

I don't think you and I read the same comic if you think Earth-2: World's End was a "compelling" read. That comic was more "end of the world" tropes than any original storytelling, complete with forced conflict, dreadful characterization, and offensive use of women as tools for progressing male characters' story arcs (particularly in Huntress and Barbara Gordon's case), all haphazardly put together into what passed for a "story." This comic genuinely made me question why Daniel H. Wilson is considered a "best selling author" if he struggles with basic craft as a writer and is a deplorably lazy storyteller. For an author who toots his own horn on how he "outlines [his] stories religiously, knows every chapter, and every detail up front," none of that ever comes through in the execution. I'm not sure he actually reads his own work if he genuinely believes half he stuff he says in his interviews.

On "not going in expecting a Justice Society reboot," that's a silly argument to make seeing as DC has been trying to sell this new Earth-2 as a rebooted Justice Society since the start of Robinson's run. And for what it's worth, Earth-2 WAS on its way to becoming a modernized Justice Society before it got derailed with the arrival of Mike Cotton as editor and the loss of James Robinson on writing duties.

[leo619]

I feel like every post on this series boils down to "It's not the Justice Society."

World's End was petty compelling and gave us some great character interactions. And if there's a little melodrama involved in establishing the new status quo -- I have no idea what superhero books everyone's been reading that's devoid of such moments. This is one of the only team/greater DCU books that's completely free to go in whatever direction it wants, and to play with real stakes. I'm still completely on board for the ride, but I never went in looking for a JSA reboot.

Not at all, I for one do not mind if this book does or does not become a JSA book. If it does, that's great, if it doesn't, that's great too. If it turns into a Justice League Book, that's great. That's not the issue, if you actually read some of the criticisms, you would see most of the criticism has absolutely nothing to do with the book being different than what people anticipated and more on standard writing errors such as contrived story lines, forced character conflicts, drama for the sake of drama without a purpose, etc.

[marvelprince]

I feel like every post on this series boils down to "It's not the Justice Society."

World's End was petty compelling and gave us some great character interactions. And if there's a little melodrama involved in establishing the new status quo -- I have no idea what superhero books everyone's been reading that's devoid of such moments. This is one of the only team/greater DCU books that's completely free to go in whatever direction it wants, and to play with real stakes. I'm still completely on board for the ride, but I never went in looking for a JSA reboot.

Nope. I was one of the initial supporters behind Earth 2 who encouraged others to enjoy the book for what it was, I even enjoyed (some aspects) of Worlds End, I appreciated it wasn't doing JSA again. This though? Completely off the rails. Val had so much potential but I honestly think he's dying under this guy's pen. Dick Grayson Batman is my favorite character in all of comics but this version of the character has none of the charms of that. Kara literally wowed me when she proclaimed herself the Superman of Earth 2 and took on Darkseid, but her she comes across as so easily manipulated and childish. This book was one of my favorite reads under Robinson and Taylor but now I find myself wishing characters I like to not show up. I pray they leave Aquawoman out of this.

After the most bleakest of stories you could tell with this cast why in the world would they think anything other a hopeful feel would be something thats appealing?

[Moriarty]

i read this latest issue...and i read it again just to be sure i didn't miss something. but very little of it made any sense. they have all these characters to use...and they've made every one of them stupid and useless.

[Doctor Kent Nelson]

You can find a low point? The only high point of this was the Art. The story and characterization is just s%#*. Honestly, I think its clear our current writer has an issue with writing Characters who arent white.

Maybe DC can take a leaf out of The Simpsons... and do a Poochie!



All of a sudden issue #5 of Earth 2 Society goes back to the status quo!

[Badou]

allow Kara to rekindle the relationship with Holt.

Putting her with Val was forced, but we all knew it was coming, but I hope they don't go down the Holt path again with her character. That was awful.

[Tayswift]

Considering Mike Cotton is the reason we ended up with Wilson on Earth-2 and saw this book turned into complete schlock, I'd get rid of him too. Perhaps if DC replaced Cotton with one of the Justice League editors like Andy Khouri or Amadeo Turturro, we could see better talent attached to this book and the quality vastly improved.

this book should be on JL editors. Cotton just ruined this book hiring Wilson and making roinson get out of it

Putting her with Val was forced, but we all knew it was coming, but I hope they don't go down the Holt path again with her character. That was awful.

keep her alone for a change? kara is too much defined by her partners on new 52
and helena is her true love

[ThomasBlake]

I think thats a gross statement, and completely wrong. Val is the only guy who act's like a normal levelheaded person while everyone who's white acts like a major butthole.

I think everyone is poorly written and characterized under Wilson, but JaggedFel isn't off the mark on their comment either. The only characters who are "driving" the story (if it can be called that) have been mostly two white male characters: "Dick Grayson" and Terry Sloan. The only women who get to do anything at all are mostly Kara and Helena, but that's not saying much since they only get a few panels where the writer acknowledges their existence, or gets written as an extension of a male character as Wilson clearly does with Kara. Kendra and Marella are lucky to even get any panel time since they are mostly left out of the story. The only female character he writes well isn't even human: Red Tornado. Khalid and Yolanda Montez disappeared off the face of the Earth after World's End and Convergence ended. So did Fury. Michael Holt only got enough panels to establish him as Dick's personal Alfred, and that's about it. Everyone else like the Flash and Alan Scott only appear whenever the writer decides he wants to use them. It's also worth noting that, with the exception of Red Tornado, every issue so far has been told from a male point of view.

TL;DR the racially diverse characters very much exist on the sidelines or not at all. Wilson equally doesn't know how to write women as compelling characters, often reducing them into stereotypes, or as tools for servicing male characters. I would say, he more accurately doesn't know how to write characters who aren't white men. Or rather, he doesn't know what to do with characters that aren't white men.