Tilting at Windmills - Sep 11, 2015

[CBR News]

This month, Brian Hibbs examines his approach to DC Comics' "Dark Knight III: The Master Race" and the promise and peril of Local Comic Shop Day.


Full article here.

[scout]

I trade-waited DK2 and will so on DK3 as well. When there are some many versions of covers and formats, why not just wait to get them all under 1 cover at a later point. Also it's not like this ties into other series making the need to read it right away to get the full story. Pretty self contained.

[CSTowle]

Are there people excited for DK3? I was for DK2, I'll admit. I was severely disappointed, and got the feeling most others who read it were as well. While I have little interest in reading (much less buying) a DK3 series, I find it hard to believe a large number of people would be willing to pay more than the standard 3.99 monthly comic price.

As to the Local Comic Shop Day, I'd agree that may be easy for casual folks to confuse with FCBD which would definitely annoy potential customers.

[Bluebolt1967]

Good article. I'm not a comic shop owner and don't have to deal with trying to figure out how many to order but I would not order too many more than the normal monthly Batman orders because 1) many will wait for a TPB instead of buying the monthlies; 2) many might not be interested in another Dark Knight sequel, especially given how badly the last one was received; 3) All Star Batman and Robin ('nuff said); 4) No Frank Miller art, which is a strong selling point in the past, even though is art on DK2 wasn't as good as as DK1; 5) there will always be the chance to re-order or obtain second prints if needed. I don't feel like this is going to sell nearly as well as DC hopes and am hoping that a bunch of retailers don't get stuck with multiple unsold copies. I do hope the story is good and will buy it myself whenever the TPB comes out, if the reviews are decent.

[cranger]

I might just double (triple) dip DK3. I'm not even buying Batman or much else and I'm pretty close to committing to this book. Keep in mind fellow nostalgic titles such as Secret Wars and Star Wars which are doing rather well and DK3 at least has the original team involved with the story and art unlike Before Watchmen which had some people avoid it just because it was against Moore's wishes. Not that I think the order ratios are off especially with reorders available (I cringe when I see how much unsold 'hot' stock my LCS always has) but I think this one is going to sell well. Also, hoping JR Jr. is the TBD since he is moving off Superman and his inker is already on the project.

As for LCSD, that really baffles me. Isn't every Wednesday LCSD? Maybe I just don't understand RSD so I am missing something, but the hobby is already overburdened with limited collectables as is, does anyone think more is going help the industry or shops as a whole?

[johnnyrocket]

Re: nostalgia buying. As someone who bought DKR when it first came out, and since then has read other Miller/Batman efforts like DKSA and the never completed Batman and Robin, both featuring a bat #$%@ crazy Batman, I'm more likely to pick up and read the original off my bookshelf again than buy this at full price when it comes out. I have nearly ZERO interest in more "Sin City Batman" at this point, and dubious of the entire project after the very mixed bags of DKSA and B&R. This thing will have to have the best reviewed comic in ten years and even then I'll wait for the trade to see how it turns out. I'm in zero anticipation mode for this project. And even as an adult with plenty of disposable income, I'm frankly hitting a wall on these prices versus the content they're putting out.

I've commented in your column before about the concerns for the viability of print; largely due to these blatant pricing gouges by the Big Two. At $4 $5 $6, even $8 a comic book, what ten year old kid (or even a college student) is going to get into a steady comics habit, get into Batman or Spiderman, or the Avengers when only buying 5-6 comics a month approaches the cost of a cable bill? You can buy seasons of Batman TAS for the price of just three comic books.. I bring all this up again, because I'm legitimately concerned about the market and the retailer industry, and this is all starting to feel like the last big predatory gouge on an emotionally captive market. And at some point, there's going to be a mass turn off happening. They know this, and instead of taking steps to make comics more accessible to the next generation they're just going to bleed the current and aging one for everything they've got for the quarterly profits.. while they last.

[Tim Pilotus]

And, if you're truly going "all-in," you can have Jim Lee draw you a custom sketched copy...At a guess, there can't be more than ten of these being ordered

this 40-page hardcover will be just over twice the price of the comic at $12.99 an issue.

If you ask me, It's never good to split your customers into haves and have-nots.

I agree with the latter but it seems like the tension created by it is necessary to overwhelm a sort of inevitable lack of enthusiasm for the actual content of something like a DKIII.

Don't we all know by now this won't stand up to the reputation that was built off've those impactful 4-issues in the mid-80s and yet will still rule the months it sees publication? It will be an unmitigated hit for DC Sales but these are the lengths they have to go to keep getting water from the ever-dwindling wells they have at their disposal I'd think.

[prismablue]

I'm a huge FM fan. I loved everything he's done since DKR, I'm the so-called target audience for this book. I really wanted to read this series when it was announced but the formats and pricing have assured i will not even look at this until a tpb collection is available, if one is available because to do that they'd really have to burn any retailer and reader who gets on board with this series.

If you ask me they should actually be making this series more accessible on every level especially cost. Andy Kubert is a fine artist. Azzerello is a fine writer. They are not Frank Miller in terms or recognition and brand. How many current dcu readers are going to care about DK3? it has no relation to the books they read.

How many Miller fans are going to care about Dk3 without frank's involvement? If Frank was writing this and FM and Klaus were drawing the main series together, even just FM layouts then this high end strategy makes more sense. Drawing in older readers. frank is sharing a co-writing credit here. This feels more like Frank Miller presents DK3.

A mini comic insert in the standard issue? 7 dollars for the entire thing printed at regular size. Who thought that up? It makes me want to avoid the series right there. We have to pay a premium for a Frank Miller cover because it's 1 in 100. Frank Miller is the reason I and many others looking at this series are interested in DKR 3 in the first place. The least they could do is make the FM cover retail since he's not drawing the series. Then if I want other variants I can't even get them at my local retailer.

This book seems like it's being set up for a massive failure. Who thought this ridiculous sales plan and "incentives program" up? i don't know how retail works but if I had a small store I'd avoid stocking this. How many retailers will actually order enough copies to even bring half of these 1 in ___ variants to print? this series format variation and 'incentive" plan sounds like a recipe to put stores out of business.

Who is ordering 5800 copies of the book for a sketch variant? You can get a Jim lee batman original cover art for about the same price or less. Do that instead. It'll look better displayed and have more resale value.



As a reader I'd rather avoid it completely than go through this ridiculous order process

[cranger]

This book seems like it's being set up for a massive failure. Who thought this ridiculous "incentives program" up? How many retailers will actually order enough copies to even bring half of these 1 in ___ variants to print? this series format variation and 'incentive" plan sounds like a recipe to put stores out of business.

It has worked for Star Wars and several other Marvel books. It has been reported so far that 30 shops have ordered retail exclusive covers. These variants will see print, and DC will rake in the money, the question is will the shops that order enough to get them make their money back.

[prismablue]

It has worked for Star Wars and several other Marvel books. It has been reported so far that 30 shops have ordered retail exclusive covers. These variants will see print, and DC will rake in the money, the question is will the shops that order enough to get them make their money back.

Well there you go. even still it's a different thing. Star wars fans don't care who the creative team is. This isn't DCU Batman, it's Frank Miller Batman. I'm a FM fan and I won't go near this book because I don't trust I'll be getting enough FM involvement. One retail format (the full size printing vs mini comic at a standard price be it 4 dollars or 6, a FM retail cover, that's a different story. Dc is killing my interest, good luck getting new fans involved.

[CSTowle]

My guess is you see these in 2 dollar or even dollar bins 6 months after printing at every con you go to, from larger establishments who can afford to throw away money to chase variants. And if it's the quality of the second series, I wouldn't pick it up even then. The good news is the bar is so low for Frank Miller Batman after DK2 (and how in the hell did I forget All-Star and the GD Batman?), that this doesn't have to do much to exceed expectations.

[Brian Hibbs]

I've commented in your column before about the concerns for the viability of print; largely due to these blatant pricing gouges by the Big Two. At $4 $5 $6, even $8 a comic book, what ten year old kid (or even a college student) is going to get into a steady comics habit, get into Batman or Spiderman, or the Avengers when only buying 5-6 comics a month approaches the cost of a cable bill? You can buy seasons of Batman TAS for the price of just three comic books.. I bring all this up again, because I'm legitimately concerned about the market and the retailer industry, and this is all starting to feel like the last big predatory gouge on an emotionally captive market. And at some point, there's going to be a mass turn off happening. They know this, and instead of taking steps to make comics more accessible to the next generation they're just going to bleed the current and aging one for everything they've got for the quarterly profits.. while they last.

As I think I've mentioned several times before we're absolutely seeing new faces coming in, and not having particular problem with the price of comics -- however, most of these new faces aren't buying into the idea of the superhero "universes" so much, and they're as likely to buy an Image comic as a DC or Marvel one. Sales have been growing consistently for many quarters now, so the notion of a "mass turn off" strikes me as pretty unlikely at this stage of the game.

Ten year old kids don't really buy much of anything on their own -- parents are their buying muscle. And parents have no problems spending $15 for a GN, so $3 for an individual comic doesn't appear to appear expensive to them.

[poneley]

I think folks also have to realize that not all products are equal and not all products are competing for the same audience. DK3 is a Batman comic with a very rare creative team behind it and with a very unique history and setting- its not your typical monthly book. It's priced higher. You are not going to direct a new reader or a casual reader to DK3. You might direct them to DK1 or a popular Batman graphic novel or even a new single issue.

The book will succeed because people want to read it. I measure success by the amount of excitement it generates in me, and I'm excited about this book.

My old comic book shop retailer would send us regular emails (maybe 1-3x a month) highlighting product he thought was notable. I am wondering if retailers could get customers to gauge interest on future purchases by taking a short survey in exchange for 5% off their next purchase? This is all done magically through email/internet data collecting etc. You'd do it when big questions marks like Secret Wars or DK3 show up. Answering a survey is not the same as actually handing out cash for a book but its a data point to make estimates. Furthermore, if you are a good retailer that actually connects with your customers, some customers would see it more as helping out their shop and less about the discount. There are shops I go out of my way to help and their are shops that I avoid because of poor customer service.

Lastly, why do folks keep getting upset/worried/etc over any of these incentive programs? Some customers like these rare collectibles. I have no use for them. And if a retailer knows they can pull it off, its a boon to them. I really am not worried about any "speculator bust" happening again.

[MikeInfinitum]

I'm a huge FM fan. I loved everything he's done since DKR

Even Holy Terror!?

[Michael P]

Even Holy Terror!?

Hell, even Spawn/Batman?