Buffy & Angel vs. The Matrix

[Pendaran]

Darla, one of the crappiest shots to be filmed, went at Buffy with a gun and Buffy was only able to deal with that happening by basically fleeing behind cover and getting help. It's not like in the series she successfully charges gunmen unloading on her and disarms them like she's Batman or something.

[Siriel]

Neo, Trinity and Morpheus have a stupid amount of guns . Hell, even give Buffy a rocket launcher and she's still toast.

Neo and Morpheus almost always carry one or two guns, as far as I recall.

The only time when they carried what one would refer to as "a stupid amount of guns" involved prep.

And nobody ever managed to hit Buffy with a gun when she knew people were shooting at her.

Not really many people tried and none of those who did were faster than her.

With that said, accurate aiming without spraying bullets everywhere is something of a lost art in the Matrix, hence why I think they can probably make it up to Smith.

[Siriel]

Well I meant for this to be hand to hand. My bad for not specifying.

If it's hand to hand then they definitely make it up to Smith.

That's probably still where they stop.

[Guy1]

With that said, accurate aiming without spraying bullets everywhere is something of a lost art in the Matrix, hence why I think they can probably make it up to Smith.

Did anyone else just think of Underworld?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

*pokes head in out of curiosity*

If it's hand to hand then they definitely make it up to Smith.

That's probably still where they stop.

Even given the speed difference (if there is one)?

I don't know too much about Buff and Co. so I'm curious to know what they're capable of is all.

[Siriel]

Even given the speed difference (if there is one)?

I don't know too much about Buff and Co. so I'm curious to know what they're capable of is all.

There isn't particularly a speed difference between them and Morpheus (if anything they might be faster; I don't recall anything amazing from Morpheus) and while Neo's bullet time feat puts him above them it's not particularly overwhelming due to how...not very good it is.

[Carabas]

Neo and Morpheus almost always carry one or two guns, as far as I recall.

Fair point. Mind you, in the comics she developed a rogue Slayer nemesis whose big thing was guns, guns, and more guns.[/QUOTE]

With that said, accurate aiming without spraying bullets everywhere is something of a lost art in the Matrix, hence why I think they can probably make it up to Smith.

Yeah, Agents are more on the level of end-of-season big bads that require lots of prep.

[Powerboy]

Even Dark Willow can't just casually magic a dead person back to live.
Buffy was hurt, doctors were operating on her. Willow chased them away, causing Buffy to flatline for a moment before Willow healed her.
Because Willow wasn't going to sit around and wait for Buffy to heal up in her own good time when there was a bad guy to eviscerate.

And nobody ever managed to hit Buffy with a gun when she knew people were shooting at her. Only reason Warren managed to hit her is because he ambushed her.

She jumped in the way of the shot to save somebody.

But that's beside the point. Her record against guns is poor. Good by real world standards but poor for what we're talking about here.

Against Darla, he pretty much did what any real life fast person would do. She dove for cover- and that was against a lousy shot.

There was an episode about a bunch of trained mercenaries hunting her, some supernatural and some not. There were two guys she managed to get to shoot each other but that was again using cover.

In "Go Fish", when a guy had the drop on her at close range and no cover, there was nothing she could do.

[Dr Will Hatch]

What if this were Uber Buffy from the Season 8 comics who was basically Supergirl lite along with Angel with his Twilight powers vs Neo and company?

[StupidMoniker]

What if this were Uber Buffy from the Season 8 comics who was basically Supergirl lite along with Angel with his Twilight powers vs Neo and company?

That would reverse the stomp. Not only did she have the classic DC brick powerset to some degree, but she and Angel together could enter some sort of alternate reality and destroy/recreate the world.

[Iron Fist]

Even Dark Willow can't just casually magic a dead person back to live.
Buffy was hurt, doctors were operating on her. Willow chased them away, causing Buffy to flatline for a moment before Willow healed her.
Because Willow wasn't going to sit around and wait for Buffy to heal up in her own good time when there was a bad guy to eviscerate.

And nobody ever managed to hit Buffy with a gun when she knew people were shooting at her. Only reason Warren managed to hit her is because he ambushed her.

Just touching on what others have said, there are seldom villains with guns in Buffy because she'd be dead.

Half the time there are guns involved Buffy only survives by luck and by finding stuff to hide behind. Thee's a prom episode where she only escapes mercenaries using trickery with GPS trackers. I don't see her being able to do this with people like Neo and Trinity.



And hand to hand, I don't see how Buffy can win, Matrix people are stronger, have bullet time feats and they know they every single martial art on the planet as they are all loaded into them during their training. Buffy only knows a handful of disciplines, she'd be outmatched very quickly.

Angel I'm unsure of because he's old as balls, and I never watched his show so I don't know if he bothered with physical combat training or just relied on vamp strength.

Buffy isn't unbeatable she gets stabbed with her own stake by a vampire in season 5 who was still way below her strength level, she also got beaten by Spike several times, not to mention she has a history of being easily knocked out.

Compared to the skill level and speed of the Matrix guys, I just don't see how Buffy can really win.

[Carabas]

Just touching on what others have said, there are seldom villains with guns in Buffy because she'd be dead.

Well, no.
There's not many gun s in the show because that's what the creators wanted. Nothing to do with Buffy's abilities.
If there had been a lot of guns in the show then Buffy would have been able to effortlesly dodge gunfire because that is how fiction works.

And hand to hand, I don't see how Buffy can win, Matrix people are stronger, have bullet time feats and they know they every single martial art on the planet as they are all loaded into them during their training. Buffy only knows a handful of disciplines, she'd be outmatched very quickly.

Buffy never learned how to fight either. She mystically got millenia of Slayer heritage downloaded into her brain one night. And yes, she trains to get better and to keep her skills up, but I'm sure that if Neo actually trained, he'd be better too.

[Siriel]

Matrix people are stronger,

Debatable.

have bullet time feats

Morpheus doesn't, Neo has a very poor one.

and they know they every single martial art on the planet

They certainly never show this, or even anything near it.

[Guy1]

There isn't particularly a speed difference between them and Morpheus (if anything they might be faster; I don't recall anything amazing from Morpheus)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4e4s42yekQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omDwAQzR8sg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFbh_IKsDbQ

Hope these help.

[Pendaran]

Well, no.
There's not many gun s in the show because that's what the creators wanted. Nothing to do with Buffy's abilities.
If there had been a lot of guns in the show then Buffy would have been able to effortlesly dodge gunfire because that is how fiction works.


Buffy never learned how to fight either. She mystically got millenia of Slayer heritage downloaded into her brain one night. And yes, she trains to get better and to keep her skills up, but I'm sure that if Neo actually trained, he'd be better too.

There were guns in the show, she handled dealing with them in a way that spoke to her being bad at handling guns. Her abilities as demonstrated in the show are what they are. "That is how fiction works" does not actually allow for inventing a level of capacity for someone that not only they never showed, but had full out examples of a lesser capacity. It's not even "Buffy in dealing with guns forgot her speed" or something, it's "Buffy had a limit called 'people with guns' as far as tackling them head on".

As for the fight.. Neo's bullet dodging pre subway was not the best, no, but again, that and the aim dodging parts of it, still better than what Buffy and Angel are capable of. I suppose for it being the two of them they can still take it and all.

Morpheus doesn't, Neo has a very poor one.

It's good enough for me to view the speed gap between either of them as better than slight.