More PIS required for their fights: Superman vs Batman OR Hulk vs Wolverine ?

[daBronzeBomma]

Everyone roots for the Underdog.

Nobody roots for the Overdog.

So, which "classic" overdog-hero-vs-underdog hero rumble requires more PIS to be interesting?

This ...



Or this ...




Or am I totally off-base in claiming both Superman and Hulk are constantly respectively made to job to their much, much weaker opponents? Maybe there is actually little to zero PIS in these fights?

Full disclosure: never actually read any of the Hulk vs Wolverine fights, they just seem ridiculous from the jump to me, as an outsider. Is Hulk vulnerable to admantanium the way Superman is vulnerable to kryptonite?

Which set-up requires more PIS to sell?

[The MunchKING]

Superman. He has Superspeed to too great of a degree to be bothered by Batman, or 90% of the people Batman knows.

Where as While the Hulk is Strong, he's not that fast or agile, so Wolverine dodging around him and cutting him with Adamantium is more believable.

Also Unlike Batman, Wolverine has both an invulnerable skeleton/claws and a super Healing factor, so it's much more believable he'd bounce back from being smacked through a mountain.

Superman always holds back as hard as he can against Bruce, and he STILL has to have a full rack of PIS to make it even a thing.

[Wolverine12]

I don't know what PIS means but I get what you are saying here. I have to agree that it is the Superman/Batman combo that is harder to believe. Batman is just a human, Superman is a God. Hulk is about as strong as any character but doesn't have flight, laser eyes, x-ray and on top of that Wolverine isn't really a slouch. He is nigh immortal (with his with his healing factor), has above human level strength and speed and his bones can't be broken. If Hulk is vulnerable to Wolverine's claws than the image in the OP could happen.

Side note: where is that Hulk/Wolverine image from?

[The MunchKING]

PIS= Plot Induced Stupidity.

Basically when a formerly competent character suddenly acts like a retard and forgets he has super powers so as to make the plot work.

Which is technically different from Superman holding back because of his moral code, which he ALSO does, but still a real factor in Batman winning even a technical victory.

[Captain Morgan]

The other thing is Wolverine gets written way above his usual level when he fights a guy like Hulk, and can suddenly take hits from a class 100 without all of his flesh being turned to red goo. Which is more SMvsFL for him than PIS for the Hulk I think. Hulk doesn't forget powers so much as Wolverine is written as being tougher than he usually is. (You could make a case that they are also writing Hulk weaker I suppose.)

Batman vs Superman usually requires Clark to at minimum forget his speed, but morality and kryptonite usually help past that.

[Arfguy]

If Hulk is vulnerable to Wolverine's claws than the image in the OP could happen.

Side note: where is that Hulk/Wolverine image from?

I think one of the biggest problems I have with Wolverine vs. Hulk is...Hulk is invulnerable to bullets fired from things like handguns and rifles. Every time Wolverine is piercing Hulk's skin with his claws, it's being said that Wolverine is striking Hulk's skin faster than a bullet.

I realize Adamantium is supposed to be this unbreakable metal, but it's not a lightsabre. It doesn't cause the tensile strength of Hulk's skin to lessen as it pierces and Wolverine does not strike faster than a bullet. I realize it's comics, but I've always had an issue about that. I also don't think Wolverine is strong enough to claw at Hulk's skin with a force greater than that of a standard handgun.

To answer your sidenote question, I believe it's from the Savege Wolverine comics, but not sure which issue.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Depending on how sharp the claws are, he could very well be delivering more pounds per square inch than most gunfire, but the problem is that guys like Hulk take punches from guys like Namor and is unlikely that Logan's claws generate nearly that many PSI of force. Even if the edges of his claws Er monomolecular, that should just mean it gets about a molecule into Hulk's skin before the blade becomes too wide top keep the edges of the cut from holding the claw from going any deeper.

A lot of the time they treat Logan's claws as though he has Silver Samurai's mutant power to imbue his blades with an aura that can cut almost anything short of adamantium.

[Carabas]

Do Wolverine's claws have any feats for not slicing through anything at all like a lightsaber, even without collosal superstrength behind them?

Because I don't recall ever seeing anything else in the comics and movies.

[Powerboy]

Superman vs. Batman easily. At least with Wolverine vs. the Hulk, Wolverine is faster albeit not by magnitudes. With the adamantium skeleton, there is justification for surviving hits from the Hulk and there are incarnations of Wolverine where he healed fast enough to make it believable that the fight could still be going on after he got hit. That he could hurt the Hulk is less believable. But at least there is enough inconsistency with the claws that it isn't completely unbelievable though it probably doesn't sell by Rumbles standards. Granted, Wolverine staying conscious after a good hit from the Hulk is pushing it but we are talking about a scale of absurdity here.

Superman is so much faster than Batman that Batman's synapses can't even fire before most versions of Superman have killed him, circled the world and had the victory party. That he could survive a glancing strike from the wind from Superman's punch is beyond absurd, etc., etc., etc.

[heretic]

Have to concur with Kent vs Wayne needing more handwaves. The Hulk is at enough of a speed/agility/reflexes/skill disadvantage against Wolverine that one need only make the 'Vorpal Claws' presumption that is normally in place already to give the latter a real chance.

[Pendaran]

Do Wolverine's claws have any feats for not slicing through anything at all like a lightsaber, even without collosal superstrength behind them?

Because I don't recall ever seeing anything else in the comics and movies.

There are various instances where Wolverine has not cut through things, yes. Just randomly off the top of my head at that, the Sentry has grabbed Wolverines claws and forced them back against him with nary a scratch. When Wolverine does something like cut a class 100 brick, for my own view, it's them jobbing. There are various times where they are not vorpal swords.

Still, as noted, for Wolverine vs the Hulk, it just requires Wolverine being written beyond capacity, whereas for Bats vs Superman, Superman has to actively forget so many things he can do. The BvS thus requires way more plot monkeying.

[Vic Vega]

Superman vs. Batman easily. At least with Wolverine vs. the Hulk, Wolverine is faster albeit not by magnitudes. With the adamantium skeleton, there is justification for surviving hits from the Hulk and there are incarnations of Wolverine where he healed fast enough to make it believable that the fight could still be going on after he got hit. That he could hurt the Hulk is less believable. But at least there is enough inconsistency with the claws that it isn't completely unbelievable though it probably doesn't sell by Rumbles standards. Granted, Wolverine staying conscious after a good hit from the Hulk is pushing it but we are talking about a scale of absurdity here.

Superman is so much faster than Batman that Batman's synapses can't even fire before most versions of Superman have killed him, circled the world and had the victory party. That he could survive a glancing strike from the wind from Superman's punch is beyond absurd, etc., etc., etc.

Even if you grant Batman access to his Sci-Fi closet, Outsider Suit, Yellow Fear Ring and however much Kryptonite he's stockpiled, Superman could easily murder Batman from orbit before he could get at any of it.

[The Drunkard Kid]

There are various instances where Wolverine has not cut through things, yes. Just randomly off the top of my head at that, the Sentry has grabbed Wolverines claws and forced them back against him with nary a scratch. When Wolverine does something like cut a class 100 brick, for my own view, it's them jobbing. There are various times where they are not vorpal swords.

Still, as noted, for Wolverine vs the Hulk, it just requires Wolverine being written beyond capacity, whereas for Bats vs Superman, Superman has to actively forget so many things he can do. The BvS thus requires way more plot monkeying.

I'm not sure that Sentry is the best example for this thread, since he's no-sold things that could legitimately annihilate the Hulk as well. Still, Logan head also failed to cut Reed Richards and the Blob as well, due to their elasticity, and ISTR him failing to scratch Hulk on at least one instant.

[wjowski]

To further support Superman vs Batman keep in mind even with prep Superman has his own closet of Kryptonian tech to fall back on (assuming it hasn't been retconned away in this week's Crisis Retcon).

[daBronzeBomma]

If Batman ever tries to punch Superman, this should be the most likely (and best-case) end-result for Bruce Wayne:


If Wolverine ever tries to slice Hulk, this should be the most likely (and worst-case) end-result for James Logan Howlett:


Reason being: Kal and Bruce are generally not given to killing, esp not each other.

While Banner and Logan are generally known with always going all-out and leaving cold bodies in their respective wakes.