More PIS required for their fights: Superman vs Batman OR Hulk vs Wolverine ?

[The Drunkard Kid]

To be fair, that's an extremely low showing, as the claws should have at least sliced Colossus' costume with no problems.

[The MunchKING]

You're basically making Wolverine's claws into no limits fallacy vorpal swords that you now have to have a specific immunity to by advancing this line of reasoning,

Not exactly, I was more saying it was that the hulk wasn't particularly resistant to being cut/stabbed.

Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense because he bounces bullets, but Comic books.

I mean did the Hulk ever go up against the Silver Samurai? X-23? Leonardo? Anyone else who uses sharp stabby things?

which doesn't work when there are times where he has not managed to cut through things. Which, actually, includes the Hulk in their very first fight, to the point of Wolverine remarking that he can't cut the Hulk, verbatim.

Well that was one thing from 50+ years ago. He's obviously gotten better at it, as indicated by those page scans above.

Here is another instance of Wolverine's claws not doing the job

Well OK. Is the Hulk tougher (not regens damage away, but actually tougher against stabby things) than that version of Colossus?

[The Drunkard Kid]

MunchKING, one day, when you wake up on fire and wonder how that happened, know ye well that your torment was well and truly earned for making me imagine Hulk in Wonder Woman's classic outfit.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Honestly though, despite the fact that cutting things doesn't work that way in the real world, Logan's got so many feats of cutting class 80-100+ people over the years (at least one case of which resulted in Ben Grimm wearing a mask for awhile) with the occasional showing of basic logic asserting itself in the form of him flubbing an attempt, that OPs should probably specify whether Wolvie has Vorpal claws this week.

[The MunchKING]

MunchKING, one day, when you wake up on fire and wonder how that happened, know ye well that your torment was well and truly earned for making me imagine Hulk in Wonder Woman's classic outfit.

SO Very Worth It!!

[Pendaran]

Honestly though, despite the fact that cutting things doesn't work that way in the real world, Logan's got so many feats of cutting class 80-100+ people over the years (at least one case of which resulted in Ben Grimm wearing a mask for awhile) with the occasional showing of basic logic asserting itself in the form of him flubbing an attempt, that OPs should probably specify whether Wolvie has Vorpal claws this week.

That verges on "should specify if Deathstroke can hit Flashes this week" is my problem with that. Wolverine doesn't particularly have superstrength, adamantium isn't really some "can cut absolutely everything" material compared to it being "really really durable". Wolverine doesn't even have "knows a galaxy's worth of martial arts."

Also, the Thing is for instance considerably less durable than the Hulk, as far as it goes.

Not exactly, I was more saying it was that the hulk wasn't particularly resistant to being cut/stabbed.

That just takes us to the even sillier land of "people by default have compartmentalized superhuman durability unless they show otherwise", which.. makes little sense to go that way, instead of the other way around. If someone has a showing of vast durability, saying "but they can still be cut by whatever unless they show otherwise", doesn't really make sense. Especially when we have things like characters with explicit compartmentalized superhuman durability as part of their whole deal.

[shades of eternity]

To be fair, that's an extremely low showing, as the claws should have at least sliced Colossus' costume with no problems.

Honestly Colossus is criminally underrated by brick standards.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Honestly Colossus is criminally underrated by brick standards.

Oh, I respect his strength, but I'm pretty sure his powers don't boost his outfit.

[abmccray]

Wolverine shouldn't really give the Hulk any problems. Basically, it's like a 7 year old with really sharp nails vs. someone like LeBron James who's really, really drunk. Yeah, the kid is pretty aware of what he wants to do, but he's up against LeBron James who is 6"8 and is crazy fast and strong! If the kid isn't punted 20 metres, I'm calling bullshit.

Having said all that, Superman basically forgets everything. His super-quick reflexes, his ability to be a blur at his laziest while Batman is at his optimal awareness and his other powers like heat vision and cold breath. Basically, Superman should be able to put Batman's legs in a block of ice from half a mile out, but...he forgets, cuz...

I noted all of the reasons he "forgets" in that post you quoted. Outside control (most of the time), not trying to kill him but detain him, and some writers not having him as fast as others do.

[The Drunkard Kid]

That verges on "should specify if Deathstroke can hit Flashes this week" is my problem with that. Wolverine doesn't particularly have superstrength, adamantium isn't really some "can cut absolutely everything" material compared to it being "really really durable". Wolverine doesn't even have "knows a galaxy's worth of martial arts."

Also, the Thing is for instance considerably less durable than the Hulk, as far as it goes.

Since it doesn't involve his opponents forgetting their superspeed (okay, sometimes it does, like when he stabbed Gladiator through the shoulder), to me it goes more under writers not understanding that cutting things involves anything more on the cutter's part than a sharp edge harder than the thing that they are trying to cut, much like they forget that striking/lifting/throwing things involve something more than the striker's/lifter's/thrower's strength.

Deathstroke tagging Flash is PIS/SMvFL because Flash has to forget his superspeed to get hit, but Logan cutting bricks that are less durable than adamantium doesn't involve the brick getting depowered (except to the degree needed for Logan to land the shot in the first place), but is more an acceptable break from reality along the lines of things like Hulk walking hard enough to cause Earthquakes along a coastline or throwing Fin Fang Foom to the moon even though he isn't nearly fast enough to generate the force needed to do either of those things, or Hulk lifting a massive, not particularly super-durable structure with his hands despite most large structures not being durable enough to hold together if lifted from a hand-sized portion (assuming Hulk doesn't just plow himself into the ground while the structure stays still due to his weighing drastically less than, for example, a bridge).

On the other hand, I'm also fine with the writers calling BS on it and forcing Logan to lose against unreasonable odds, or, *gasp*, think his way out of an untenable situation. It's just that Logan has enough feats of his claws being capable of cutting a broad variety of super-durable people and things that its practically a tertiary mutant power at this point and I'm willing to take that into account if the OP wants to use it.

[Pendaran]

A character's well established durability crapping out because "Wolverine has claws and is Wolverine!" is still frankly pretty bad.

but Logan cutting bricks that are less durable than adamantium doesn't involve the brick getting depowered

It involves their durability having to go somewhere best called "into the toilet" for it to happen.

It's just that Logan has enough feats of his claws being capable of cutting a broad variety of super-durable people and things that its practically a tertiary mutant power at this point and I'm willing to take that into account if the OP wants to use it.

Again, it's really not much different than Deathstroke, just replace super durable with superspeed. And "tertiary mutant power" with "I use 90% of my brain!"

[Anarchist]

Oh, I respect his strength, but I'm pretty sure his powers don't boost his outfit.

The angle doesn't show where exactly he hits him, it could be his unclothed left arm.

Well OK. Is the Hulk tougher (not regens damage away, but actually tougher against stabby things) than that version of Colossus?

Aside from power ups like the Juggernaut or the Phoenix Force, yes, Hulk is vastly more durable than Pete.

[The Drunkard Kid]

A character's well established durability crapping out because "Wolverine has claws and is Wolverine!" is still frankly pretty bad.



It involves their durability having to go somewhere best called "into the toilet" for it to happen.



Again, it's really not much different than Deathstroke, just replace super durable with superspeed. And "tertiary mutant power" with "I use 90% of my brain!"

I'm pretty sure that the intent when Logan slashes something durable isn't too show that the things he is slashing are not super durable, but that his claws are hard and sharp enough to damage things as durable as the things he is cutting. Much like when Hulk hurts someone like Ben Grimm it's too show that Hulk is strong enough to damage someone as durable as the Thing has shown himself to be and not to show than Ben's durability isn't sufficient to tank around tens/hundreds of pounds of matter hitting him at around a hundred miles of matter since Hulk lacks the super speed necessary to deliver class 100 force much like Logan lacks the speed/strength to cut class 100 durable objects by non-comic book physics.

[Pendaran]

And it's not the intent when Deathstroke hits Flashes to show that the things he hits aren't superfast, it's that Deathstroke is so awesome he can hit superfast things, and his extra brain use or whatever lets him compensate for the speed of the things he is hitting.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

I'm pretty sure that the intent when Logan slashes something durable isn't too show that the things he is slashing are not super durable, but that his claws are hard and sharp enough to damage things as durable as the things he is cutting. Much like when Hulk hurts someone like Ben Grimm it's too show that Hulk is strong enough to damage someone as durable as the Thing has shown himself to be and not to show than Ben's durability isn't sufficient to tank around tens/hundreds of pounds of matter hitting him at around a hundred miles of matter since Hulk lacks the super speed necessary to deliver class 100 force much like Logan lacks the speed/strength to cut class 100 durable objects by non-comic book physics.

Agree in principle. However, Wolverine has as much high-end as low-end and as much jobbing intent as intent to show claws slash good, which makes me stand on the fence. Black panther and the vibranium clash on the otherhand, now that is something I can get behind.

Hey! You know a good example of "good cutting" still needed some good strength for "good durability? There is that episode of Samuari jack where Jack goes against adamantium robots.