More PIS required for their fights: Superman vs Batman OR Hulk vs Wolverine ?

[abmccray]

Buuut since he's not cut Gladiator in every single issue of X men ever ....and in fact failed to cut the far less durable Collosus ....and this is basically the point at which you went " let's ignore inanimate objects for characters durability from this point forth ", the last stop being steel girders and the ilk , then that's that. He can cut through steel girders and things similarly durable

That's it . That's the " overriding counter example " you are talking of, there.

For there to be an argument from this point forth , he would have , in your own words , needed to cut Gladiator / Hulk in "every issue ever"

Since that's not the case , that's that then

People have stated that there's consistency for ultra durable characters (Thing/Hulk, others alluded to) and that Colossus is actually the outlier. Thus why I asked for feats, from everyone, basically.

[Anarchist]

During WWH Wolverine was unable to cut Hulk's skin as well and had to go for the eyes

[Pendaran]

The line with Rumbles rules is consistency regarding appearances. Feats against other people and things count if a) it is consistent, and b) there is nothing nullifying the consistency, combined with c) if it goes along with character presentation.

How many times has Wolverine cut the Savage Hulk?

----- Presentation cut off line; he's presented as a comic book peak human, so that's where that presentation ends ---------

What a remarkably arbitrary presentation cut off line for a guy saying he's not arguing for Wolverine, only that arguing against Wolverine is arbitrary.

- Slices through cars immediately
- Slices through armored trucks immediately
- Cuts through steel doors/building girders/ultra thick pieces of metal
- Cuts through Sentinels that are armored that much
- Cuts through bulletproof superheroes/villains with that kind of durability

Seems pretty fine for someone with that level of strength/capacity given unbreakable claws.

The way Rumbles works with consistency is not that you arbitrarily stop at the last OBJECT he's shown cutting through and compare people to that object by default.

The way rumbles works with consistency is factoring in showings with regards things like the powers of the characters involved, and the capacity/scale of effect they have demonstrated outside those showings, especially with fights, where people often job. Wolverine, by every argument being made in favour of him, has shown zero capacity outside his high end brick fights, to support his high end brick fights, despite existing for decades on a multiple month in, multiple month out basis.

[Pendaran]

During WWH Wolverine was unable to cut Hulk's skin as well and had to go for the eyes

No, we see him cutting him in WWH: X-men, to the point of green blood and the Hulk crying out.

Of course in WWH overall... She Hulk (and this is after her power up went away) more or less breaks the Hulk's nose, the Thing smushes up his face, and Cyclops actually flays off bits of the Hulk's skin with a wide angle blast he concentrates on. This is both a demonstration that the "World War Hulk's" durability was kind of arbitrary and a little bit sad compared to even the Savage Hulk, and either he was getting by on crazy regen, or that, once again, anything that happened in that arc is not worth citing for anything.

Also everyone in there I listed who is not Wolverine is considerably beneath class 100 force, so, that doesn't quite help Wolverine here anyway.

[The Dork Knight]

People have stated that there's consistency for ultra durable characters (Thing/Hulk, others alluded to) and that Colossus is actually the outlier. Thus why I asked for feats, from everyone, basically.

No, he's also failed to cut Sentry, Hulk , Thor among others . That's 4 separate counter examples to an argument that basically boils down to " he cuts durable people "

As I said this argument is notably weaker than Slades when the last cut off point is " steel girders "

[abmccray]

What a remarkably arbitrary presentation cut off line for a guy saying he's not arguing for Wolverine, only that arguing against Wolverine is arbitrary.

The difference of millions of PSI (using the PSI of a waterjet to cut through layers of steel, per thickness), which is where I drew the line, is "arbitrary," per you. Good to know and keep in context when talking about how things are gauged.

[Pendaran]

The difference of millions of PSI (using the PSI of a waterjet to cut through layers of steel, per thickness), which is where I drew the line, is "arbitrary," per you. Good to know.

Yes, I get that your argument is "because science", vis a vis comics.

[Pendaran]

People have stated that there's consistency for ultra durable characters (Thing/Hulk, others alluded to) and that Colossus is actually the outlier. Thus why I asked for feats, from everyone, basically.

You request is based on Wolverine being given a "he does it a lot, he therefore doesn't need any performances outside his fights to justify it" pass. It's telling that neither you nor anyone can provide even one.

[abmccray]

Yes, I get that your argument is "because science", vis a vis comics.

No, it's because when you jump a factor of hundreds or thousands, there might just be really large distinctions between the two. A factor of hundreds is "arbitrary," according to you, meaning there's no thought behind why someone puts a gap there. Noted.

This is thick aluminum, mislabeled as steel, SLOWLY being cut. The water is creating a pressure of 20,000 - 50,000 PSI to do that. Bending steel bars of certain sizes, which peak humans have noted to do, can be done is around 5,000 PSI (and it increases with the size). To quickly and immediately cut through thick steel or large objects is in the high hundreds of thousands/millions range. That's an exponential jump. It's obvious to anyone as to why anyone would place a distinction between peak and superhuman there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9hAM68K9OU

If you're saying the answer is "because the claws have special properties," then you agree that the peak human comparison is pointless, and you just have to judge where the magical claws end, meaning you were agreeing with some people you were arguing against in the first place. Are you going to admit that?

[Pendaran]

So, here's a question, if Gladiator is "too far" (even though by these arguments, they shouldn't be), and both in his very first appearance, and then in a non dream sequence retelling in 2006 Wolverine can't cut the Savage Hulk, and Wolverine has not cut Colossus (to the point of more than once apparently, which no one disputes, just dismisses as a low showing), what is this purported consistency of, let's just start at the top, Wolverine cutting class 100 bricks?

[Pendaran]

No, it's because when you jump a factor of hundreds or thousands, there might just be really large distinctions between the two. A factor of hundreds is "arbitrary," according to you, meaning there's no thought behind why someone puts a gap there. Noted.

This is thick aluminum, mislabeled as steel, SLOWLY being cut. The water is creating a pressure of 20,000 - 50,000 PSI to do that. Bending steel, which peak humans have noted to do, can be done is around 5,000 PSI. To quickly and immediately cut through thick steel or large objects is in the high hundreds/millions range. That's an exponential jump. It's obvious to anyone as to why anyone would place a distinction between peak and superhuman there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9hAM68K9OU

If you're saying the answer is "because the claws have special properties," then you agree that the peak human comparison is pointless, and you just have to judge where the magical claws end, meaning you were agreeing with some people you were arguing against in the first place. Are you going to admit that?

No, the answer is, comic book peak humans do things on a scale which, give them unbreakable claws, given the way they already treat metal, guns, trees, brick walls, slicing various things in half or apart with unbreakable claws (or hurling an indestructible shield through them) would stand in just fine with what they do. Your argument for why it would not is "because science".

Oh, also that whenever they do those things, they've been taking time to brace themselves. Despite not.

Bending steel, which peak humans have noted to do, can be done is around 5,000 PSI.

They break it. They kick down and through trees. They flying tackle people through brick walls. They snap swords in half. They break chains. They break handcuffs.

And while not breaking, they punch people right through reinforced steel doors such that the door comes down with their body.

My argument is "based on what they do, giving them unbreakable claws to stack on that, is really not in some noticeable to their depicitions far removed from the effect level of 'screw around with these things, if they then cut through a girder or the like'" Under the rough understanding and analogies that are more what you can actually go by in comics, the degree between "break all this crap and punch people through all this crap" to "cut through this crap" is not vast.

The degree between either of those things and "cut class 100 brick because claws"? Hugely vast.

[The Dork Knight]

For the record , Slade's Wilson's feat of evading a dude with Super speed AND X Ray vision AND super hearing on a scale where he hears Lois whispering " Clark " from the other side of the planet after he's been busted with Red sun radiation and who at least has ONE feat of searching his City at near light speed , even briefly , SM vs FL though it may be , is an independent feat beyond anythung presented for Logan so far , which is why I find the argument that " Slades feats totally don't count but Logan's do for some reason" all the more bemusing

Edit: and yes one of the reasons it's SM vs FL is because he has been shot by bullets . Not many times but enough to present a " counter example " , even with his number of appearances .

Now for Wolverine and Thor , Sentry etc , that's enough of a counter example given the level he otherwise operates on to go " PIS"

[The Dork Knight]

In fact if he can in fact cut right through Hulk and company , why do even his glancing blows not outright slice Captain America and Datedevil in half ?


Since we are getting all science-y here , fraction of whatever amount of force is needed to cut steel surely a fraction of a fraction should decapitate Cap?

[Pendaran]

In fact if he can in fact cut right through Hulk and company , why do even his glancing blows not outright slice Captain America and Datedevil in half ?

Low showings.

[Pendaran]

Now for Wolverine and Thor , Sentry etc , that's enough of a counter example given the level he otherwise operates on to go " PIS"

While Wolverine has failed to cut the Savage Hulk, the Sentry, and Colossus, when did he fail to cut Thor? He totally cut Thor in the reigning! (which, canonical until Thor prevented that future from happening)