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  1. #256
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I remember hearing that she wasn't planned to die, but maybe would if they made a movie, no idea where I heard that from though.
    I think they wanted to do Gwen Stacy's death...not during the series but maybe in the planned DTV movies after the series. Prior to this show Gwen was either avoided or treated as an afterthought in that she's never a contender for a love interest to Peter. Then again we also have Jean DeWolff and Stan Carter (the latter liking Spider-Man's vigilantism...) So who knows how many people would die in the DTVs?


    Scorpion debutted in ASM#20, Spider Slayer in #25, although the suit was just a normal costume, just the tail did shit.

    Not that order of debut matters here, by the time characters like Tombstone, Hammerhead, Rhino debutted, Peter not only had left high school, it was post Ditko as well.
    This is true, they condensed a good chunk of Spider-Man's history to make sense in the shows narrative. Heck Silver Sable is only Silvermane's daughter due to the "silver" name theme. (Though I will say that I like the name Sable Manfredi over the name Silver Sablinova [I love comic booky names, but much like Harleen Quinzel becoming Harley Quinn, Silver Sable's real name is EXTREMLEY on the nose])

    Hm, good point, Norman had to be out of the picture until Harry was back, Kingsley practically never had this issue.

    I still feel that repeating it would remove the novelty, even if Kingsley could play smarter, because the viewer saw one character who threw around false leads to get Spidey, and the audience, off his back, so even if Kingsley was more competent about it, it could still look like repetition.

    I think maybe we could get a twist from this, that more than one person is Hobgoblin, willingly, 'cause at the end of the day, Norman was alone with the whole thing, Kingsley could be more pragmatic and have more than one person to fight better and have less suspicion, and maybe, say, end with a small group of Hobgoblins teaming up to beat up a surprised Spidey.
    I'm wondering how Kingsley would even be a contender to be thought of the man behind the mask...I'm going over the Hobgoblin's earlier appearances (up to the battle van) and I can't find anything that would even suggest he would have any connection to the Hobgoblin. I remember Kingsley buying up pieces of Osborn's company, but I think that happened later as I didn't see it in the comics I've just looked over (heck Kingsley only showed up in the Century Club incident)...So perhaps that was a point in either Hobgoblin Lives or Goblins at the Gate. I can only think that as far as the show is concerned, Kingsley would have started buying pieces of Oscorp, "saving" the company in a way (as I would imagine that the former CEO being publicly known as a costumed criminal wouldn't go too well financially). It would probably be Kingsley doing a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense "Why is this perfume mogul interested in technology all of a sudden" it'd be like if the fashion designer Louis Vuitton was starting to buy a lot of ice creameries (I had to look up something that would have been newish and popular in the 1800's give me a break). The one episode we got Kingsley in Peter made a comment that the perfume company guy didn't really fit in with the crime lords in the room.

    Heck the Green Goblin seemed to always point to Norman, to the point that Hammerhead accused him of having something to do with Gobby as all of his equipment was Oscorp stuff. Which Norman had to make a spectacle of stealing his equipment and making sure people saw him steal it while masked. (When having a secret identity, don't sign your work)


    Kinda funny each "improved" version of those armors is weaker than the previous though, 'cause Sandman is essentially a super prototype, he was supposed to get an armor, but got that power, as he has the strongest power set in the cartoon by far, Rhino's, while it can't be used in many places, in only combat situations is really powerful, Molten Man's is more practical, but also not on the level of Rhino's, be it in defensively or offensively.
    Rhino's suit was the only one that functioned exactly how it was supposed to. Sandman was a complete accident, and Molten Man's temperature change was also unexpected.

  3. #258
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    I think they wanted to do Gwen Stacy's death...not during the series but maybe in the planned DTV movies after the series. Prior to this show Gwen was either avoided or treated as an afterthought in that she's never a contender for a love interest to Peter. Then again we also have Jean DeWolff and Stan Carter (the latter liking Spider-Man's vigilantism...) So who knows how many people would die in the DTVs?
    Carter was as subtle as a trainwreck in the middle of a crowded city with that "Spidey doesn't go far enough" line, even if you don't know about Sin Eater, you could at least guess he'd be up to something eventually lol.

    The video Kevin posted above talks about how Gwen wouldn't die in high school, in the TV show, then there would be direct to DVD movies that would deal with his college years, that would deal with the more mature stuff, and before that he mentions this great tragedy that would make Peter and MJ get close, so yeah, Gwen was planned to be killed in college shit, and maybe DeWolfe too, assuming Sin Eater was like the original.

    This is true, they condensed a good chunk of Spider-Man's history to make sense in the shows narrative. Heck Silver Sable is only Silvermane's daughter due to the "silver" name theme. (Though I will say that I like the name Sable Manfredi over the name Silver Sablinova [I love comic booky names, but much like Harleen Quinzel becoming Harley Quinn, Silver Sable's real name is EXTREMLEY on the nose])
    Hah, I've been theorizing for a while that Sable is only Silvermane's daughter because of the "Silver" name, guess I might've been right.

    I'm wondering how Kingsley would even be a contender to be thought of the man behind the mask...I'm going over the Hobgoblin's earlier appearances (up to the battle van) and I can't find anything that would even suggest he would have any connection to the Hobgoblin. I remember Kingsley buying up pieces of Osborn's company, but I think that happened later as I didn't see it in the comics I've just looked over (heck Kingsley only showed up in the Century Club incident)...So perhaps that was a point in either Hobgoblin Lives or Goblins at the Gate. I can only think that as far as the show is concerned, Kingsley would have started buying pieces of Oscorp, "saving" the company in a way (as I would imagine that the former CEO being publicly known as a costumed criminal wouldn't go too well financially). It would probably be Kingsley doing a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense "Why is this perfume mogul interested in technology all of a sudden" it'd be like if the fashion designer Louis Vuitton was starting to buy a lot of ice creameries (I had to look up something that would have been newish and popular in the 1800's give me a break). The one episode we got Kingsley in Peter made a comment that the perfume company guy didn't really fit in with the crime lords in the room.
    Was Norman even revealed to the public he's Green Goblin? Sure he flew around without the mask, but he mostly was flying high in the air, plus there were no newspapers or comments about it.

    Either way, if Kingsley were to get parts of Oscorp, maybe it could be said that it's actually Daniel buying those parts with Roderick's help? That way Daniel could have a potential bigger role than just "He's the guy who has to pretend he's Roderick for Roderick to have an alibi".

    Anyways, they were definitely gonna change how the Hobgoblin mystery was like compared to the comics, 'cause back in Ditko era, Norman wasn't someone you could suspect that he was Green Goblin until ASM#37, and ASM#39 is when his identity was revealed, 'cause before ASM#37, Norman just didn't have a character, he was just some extra who showed up three times and had one line.

    Compare to the cartoon and it's a whole different story, Norman actually debuts before Green Goblin and is around being a douche and one of the suspects of the Green Goblin mystery, so yeah, Green Goblin's mystery was changed since back in the original there weren't any suspects until Norman was being too obvious about it in ASM#37, so Hobgoblin's would definitely be different as well.

    Heck the Green Goblin seemed to always point to Norman, to the point that Hammerhead accused him of having something to do with Gobby as all of his equipment was Oscorp stuff. Which Norman had to make a spectacle of stealing his equipment and making sure people saw him steal it while masked. (When having a secret identity, don't sign your work)
    The cartoon tried really hard to point at Harry though, while there are a few clues that point at Norman, the majority of them pointed at Harry, and at least one makes no sense (Green Goblin saying the lines from Harry's play, and I think the role Harry was supposed to have).

    Rhino's suit was the only one that functioned exactly how it was supposed to. Sandman was a complete accident, and Molten Man's temperature change was also unexpected.
    I mean, only Green Goblin said that the fire powers the armor had was unnexpected, but Miles wasn't surprised at all, so it's possible Green Goblin expected just a simple armor, but Miles, the guy who actually worked on the project, knew what was gonna happen.

    Also thinking of it, I wonder if Hydro-Man, assuming he'd ever show up, would be another attempt at doing the Sandman experiment.

  4. #259
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I personally prefer Silver Sablinova, but that's just me...

    I still want to see Gwen's death adapted in animation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Also thinking of it, I wonder if Hydro-Man, assuming he'd ever show up, would be another attempt at doing the Sandman experiment.
    Morris Bench showed up in season 2. They were totally going to do Hydro-Man.

    I'm guessing he would've taken over Sandman's villain role had they gone the redemption route with Marko.

  5. #260
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I still want to see Gwen's death adapted in animation.
    It's honestly hilarious and ironic how Gwen avoids death so often whenever she shows up in another medium, the girl known for dying avoids death .

    And yes, I know she avoids death precisely because she's known for dying, still doesn't make it less ironic lol.

    Morris Bench showed up in season 2. They were totally going to do Hydro-Man.

    I'm guessing he would've taken over Sandman's villain role had they gone the redemption route with Marko.
    So many cameos I don't remember in this cartoon, one of these days someone will mention that the actress who was pretending to be aunt May and died made a cameo in it too .

    Wonder if they would keep Hydro-Man's usual incompetence in Spectacular, specially since he's arguably even more overpowered than Sandman (Or at least logically his powerset is), so he'd probably keep his usual dumbness to be "balanced out" lol.

    Thinking of it, would be funny if a character's intelligence played a part in Spidey games whenever you fight them, as in, a battle against dumb characters like Electro, Hydro-Man, Rhino having simpler AIs and having more ways to screw themselves over, but smarter characters like Otto, Norman having more refined AIs, avoiding less mistakes and maybe even having ways to trick a player, would be cool to have this story integration in the gameplay, surprised it was never done.

  6. #261
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    It's honestly hilarious and ironic how Gwen avoids death so often whenever she shows up in another medium, the girl known for dying avoids death .

    And yes, I know she avoids death precisely because she's known for dying, still doesn't make it less ironic lol.
    Especially considering how much her death gets brought up in Spider-Gwen stuff even though it really has no relation to Spider-Gwen.
    So many cameos I don't remember in this cartoon, one of these days someone will mention that the actress who was pretending to be aunt May and died made a cameo in it too .

    Wonder if they would keep Hydro-Man's usual incompetence in Spectacular, specially since he's arguably even more overpowered than Sandman (Or at least logically his powerset is), so he'd probably keep his usual dumbness to be "balanced out" lol.

    Thinking of it, would be funny if a character's intelligence played a part in Spidey games whenever you fight them, as in, a battle against dumb characters like Electro, Hydro-Man, Rhino having simpler AIs and having more ways to screw themselves over, but smarter characters like Otto, Norman having more refined AIs, avoiding less mistakes and maybe even having ways to trick a player, would be cool to have this story integration in the gameplay, surprised it was never done.
    They even got back his VA from the Universal ride, Bill Fagerbakke, although there was of course a Gargoyles connection since he was also Broadway.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    It's honestly hilarious and ironic how Gwen avoids death so often whenever she shows up in another medium, the girl known for dying avoids death .
    Not nearly as much as MJ who's often thrown off the same bridge that Gwen was.

  8. #263
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Morris Bench showed up in season 2. They were totally going to do Hydro-Man.

    I'm guessing he would've taken over Sandman's villain role had they gone the redemption route with Marko.
    OMG! That would have been totally cool.

    However, before the redemption of Marko, I would love to have seen an animated version of the Sandman/Hydro-Man fusion into...

    Mud-Thing
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Mud-Thing_(Earth-616)

    Last edited by K7P5V; 11-27-2020 at 11:58 PM. Reason: Made Adjustments.

  9. #264
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Especially considering how much her death gets brought up in Spider-Gwen stuff even though it really has no relation to Spider-Gwen.
    And Gwen is almost as sick of it as the fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Not nearly as much as MJ who's often thrown off the same bridge that Gwen was.
    As far as I'm aware, only twice in other medium right? 90's cartoon and Raimi's Spidey.

    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    OMG! That would have been totally cool.

    However, before the redemption of Marko, I would love to have seen an animated version of the Sandman/Hydro-Man fusion into Mud-Thing: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Mud-Thing_(Earth-616)

    We don't talk about that lol.

    Seriously, the plot of this issue is rather blatantly a reference to King Kong, only, really bad.

    Also Spidey is really giving me "Stupid sexy Flanders" in that cover.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    As far as I'm aware, only twice in other medium right? 90's cartoon and Raimi's Spidey.


    That is true. Still, there were so many times MJ was in danger in those adaptations that you wonder if God himself is trying to keep her from dying.

  11. #266
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    That is true. Still, there were so many times MJ was in danger in those adaptations that you wonder if God himself is trying to keep her from dying.
    She's known for her good luck .

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    As far as I'm aware, only twice in other medium right? 90's cartoon and Raimi's Spidey.
    There was also the time in the Ultimate Spider-Man comic. MJ was understandably traumatized by the event.

  13. #268
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I wonder if they would've revealed Kraven and Chameleon as brothers in the third season.

  14. #269
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wonder if they would've revealed Kraven and Chameleon as brothers in the third season.
    Or that Electro is somehow related to the Red Skull.

  15. #270
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    She's known for her good luck .
    I get it .

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    There was also the time in the Ultimate Spider-Man comic. MJ was understandably traumatized by the event.
    I'm aware, I specified "other medium" to not include comics, 'cause if we include those, then she got bridged, but lived, in 616 too (In Marvel Knights), and also MC2 (In that acip trip "Goblin God" story where Norman possessed Peter's body) and lived in that too, there's probably more lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wonder if they would've revealed Kraven and Chameleon as brothers in the third season.
    I somehow doubt it, don't see that detail adding much to their characters, unless that's used to make them work together? And maybe develop them more? 'Cause there's not much to their characters, specially Chameleon's.

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