Superman / Wonder Woman #21 Preview / Discussion

[hellacre]

Wrath has to be a factor here. Clark is getting angrier and angrier in the other books too...it's clear his fears are feeding his anger. However I can see his point of view as well as Diana's. She thinks she's helping which she is. Though to be fair to Clark she's already forgotten what they discussed ie her trying to allow him to pull his weight and not allow herself or innocents put at risk for him. She did that here again. Again understandable. She is WW, GOW, she won't stand still and allow someone she loves to die. Nor would Superman if he had his power. But still I see how he would feel annoyed and he doesn't care for the Lasso because again did his friends have a choice whether they wanted it around them or not. I feel Diana asked them before. Mind you he has no issues with it when they in the JL so... But seems Clark is feeling very helpless and frustrated and fearful because he's never been this vulnerable or losing so much so fast in his life. It makes sense he'd react very human...which is emotional. What makes us human is we make mistakes, say things we don't mean in anger, feel guilt etc. To me looks like he wants to be a douche...than just is a douche...because it allows him to push them away...to keep them safe. I don't really see him as looking bad as just him going thorugh a ton of emotion he's never had to deal with in his life...because he's had it kinda easy with all the power to be in control.

Basically Tomasi is allowing both Clark and Diana to have their different povs within the story using the changes happening to Clark and I can see both sides. It's seeing now how he explores and deals with it ie...do they gain any insight into their relationship ie it tests and strenghtens it or does it really force them apart.

[hellacre]

She may have to line up behind Steve, apparently

Another thing I "love" about this preview is where Lois just comes right out and says the world revolves around Superman and what he is doing.

Wonder Woman? Who's she?

Maybe she can come out and tell the world she's God of War. That would actually make the world raise its head and be interesting storyline. Would make what they do to Clark as child's play they would be that paranoid.

[brettc1]

Maybe she can come out and tell the world she's God of War. That would actually make the world raise its head and be interesting storyline. Would make what they do to Clark as child's play they would be that paranoid.

Oh hell yes. "I can control your armies with a thought." Nothing scary about that at all at all.

In fact why was she even fighting those soldiers? Maybe she just wanted to hit something.

Edit - but if you think the government would flip out, that's nothing compared to what all those Army wives would do.

"Hello, I'm Diana. Your husband worships me and I can make him do anything I want." Yeah, that would go down a treat.

[brettc1]

Basically Tomasi is allowing both Clark and Diana to have their different povs within the story using the changes happening to Clark and I can see both sides. It's seeing now how he explores and deals with it ie...do they gain any insight into their relationship ie it tests and strenghtens it or does it really force them apart.

[Tayswift]

yeah what a mess of issue, relationship and not superman

Oh hell yes. "I can control your armies with a thought." Nothing scary about that at all at all.

In fact why was she even fighting those soldiers? Maybe she just wanted to hit something.

Edit - but if you think the government would flip out, that's nothing compared to what all those Army wives would do.

"Hello, I'm Diana. Your husband worships me and I can make him do anything I want." Yeah, that would go down a treat.

where you were last night?

worshipping God of War.

that is a interesting power, not that she needed it to be worshipped

[hellacre]

Oh hell yes. "I can control your armies with a thought." Nothing scary about that at all at all.

In fact why was she even fighting those soldiers? Maybe she just wanted to hit something.

Edit - but if you think the government would flip out, that's nothing compared to what all those Army wives would do.

"Hello, I'm Diana. Your husband worships me and I can make him do anything I want." Yeah, that would go down a treat.

Maybe the day we know all what GOW can do ... but that is another story.

[misslane]

Well based on this whole story arc she is not doing much right either.

In what way is calling someone a moron an issue of right or wrong? We're basically talking about someone who is participating in treating American citizens like suspected terrorists who are taken from their homes and sent to GITMO prison. Everything these government officials were doing was violating the rights of its citizens based on the assumption that Superman is an enemy and so are his friends. Lois was being mistreated and asked ridiculous questions, and her response is call the guy doing it a moron. It's a fair and sympathetic reaction on her part, and so I can't understand your overreaction and criticism.

No it isn't. That's not what we teach our students at school.

Now if she had said, "You are behaving like a moron," But of course Lois is not Diana, and it's not her natural disposition to look for the good in people and attempt to bring it out.

So now you're going to get into a semantics debate and demand that Lois treat a government official who is participating in violating her rights with the kind of civility one would expect of a student toward his or her classmate? You can't be serious!

If anger being justified were enough to justify a course of action, Diana would probably have cut her head off by now.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Lois called someone a name out of righteous anger. Comparing name-calling to decapitation is absurd and disturbing.

... Aaand it seems like DC is really focused on making Lois the biggest asshole in the universe. I wouldn't be surprised if she eventually becomes a villain like in JL3001 (Hell, maybe these are the events that caused that).

So a person calling someone who violated her rights, and mistreated her because they are targeting a friend of hers, a moron for his behavior and line of questioning is asshole behavior worthy of being labeled a potential villain? That's outrageous! There is no need, in my opinion, to be so protective of this government goon's feelings and so ready to bash Lois for something that is totally understandable.

[Rakzo]

Eh, I don't care about the government dude. I just think that Lois' attitude has been terrible since the beginning of this storyline.

[misslane]

Eh, I don't care about the government dude. I just think that Lois' attitude has been terrible since the beginning of this storyline.

In what way has her attitude been so terrible that she deserves to be called an asshole and a villain? What is the "correct" attitude to have in the situations she's been put in? How would you feel if you found out you had been lied to or you had your civil liberties violated? What is proper and why?

[Rakzo]

Well, first of all, I wouldn't insult someone with authority that can actually make things worse for me. That would be very stupid.

[kivatt]

Well, first of all, I wouldn't insult someone with authority that can actually make things worse for me. That would be very stupid.

Wait you'd rather let people abuse their powers, and treat you any which way, instead of saying how you feel, and speaking up for yourself?
That to me is very stupid

[Rakzo]

Wait you'd rather let people abuse their powers, and treat you any which way, instead of saying how you feel, and speaking up for yourself?
That to me is very stupid

You can do that without insulting others by the way.

And acussing others of being stupid when they prefer the less violent way is simply offensive just FYI.

[kivatt]

You can do that without insulting others by the way.

If you abuse your powers, your position, and treat me anyway you feel like.
And violate a persons civil liberties, you deserve to be disrespected.
Especially since the person is angry about the harsh treatment that they received.

[misslane]

Well, first of all, I wouldn't insult someone with authority that can actually make things worse for me. That would be very stupid.

I would agree if Wonder Woman wasn't there to stand up to them and with a tool that would remove any cause for suspicion. More importantly, what you're referring to is Lois taking risks with her attitude, which isn't quite the same thing as an attitude problem. What you seem to be implying is that Lois' attitude was acceptable and justified, but she's in the wrong for expressing that attitude because it's risky. Well, it was risky for Wonder Woman to use the lasso in the first place and to put herself in the government's spotlight, but she did it anyway. She could have made things worse for herself and for Superman. It was risky for Superman to punch his way towards the Oval Office. Later in the issue, Steel also isn't very nice to his government interrogator. Lois mouthing off in the midst of an inquisition may be risky for her, but it's not a terrible or wrong attitude, and she was far from the only one in this issue or story who took chances either in attitude or action.

[Rakzo]

I would agree if Wonder Woman wasn't there to stand up to them and with a tool that would remove any cause for suspicion. More importantly, what you're referring to is Lois taking risks with her attitude, which isn't quite the same thing as an attitude problem. What you seem to be implying is that Lois' attitude was acceptable and justified, but she's in the wrong for expressing that attitude because it's risky. Well, it was risky for Wonder Woman to use the lasso in the first place and to put herself in the government's spotlight, but she did it anyway. She could have made things worse for herself and for Superman. It was risky for Superman to punch his way towards the Oval Office. Later in the issue, Steel also isn't very nice to his government interrogator. Lois mouthing off in the midst of an inquisition may be risky for her, but it's not a terrible or wrong attitude, and she was far from the only one in this issue or story who took chances either in attitude or action.

I don't think that anyone comes particularly clean from this, still Lois' attitude just can make things worse.

If you abuse your powers, your position, and treat me anyway you feel like.
And violate a persons civil liberties, you deserve to be disrespected.
Especially since the person is angry about the harsh treatment that they received.

Are we talking about you or me? Because that is getting seriously off-topic and trying to imply that the things I would do would be stupid just because I would prefer to handle things one way.

Again, offensive.