Superman Wonder Woman #21 [whole issue] Discussion and Spoilers

[brettc1]

First and most importantly - even off panel, Steve is awesome. Yay!

So much for the idea that he is a mere government stooge



Second - it seems to me it's not the eye of the guy asking the question Lois is looking into...



Superman is being a bit of a [choose your expletive]. Accusing both Diana and Lois of betraying him. Pretty much screams mind control. I thought he was immune to that these days?

And in case it wasn't perfectly obvious, this is by and large a Superman driven story.

Which is interesting, since in the issue is pointed out very plainly [see above] that nothing anything anybody else does on Earth matters compared to Superman. You could have found the cure for cancer or saved a bus full or orphans from going over a cliff, but according to Lois you will still not be as significant as whatever Superman is getting up to as far as the news is concerned.

[Tayswift]

"Superman is being a bit of a [choose your expletive]. Accusing both Diana and Lois of betraying him. Pretty much screams mind control. I thought he was immune to that these days?"

just another tuesday for superman on new 52

[misslane]

Which is interesting, since in the issue is pointed out very plainly [see above] that nothing anything anybody else does on Earth matters compared to Superman. You could have found the cure for cancer or saved a bus full or orphans from going over a cliff, but according to Lois you will still not be as significant as whatever Superman is getting up to as far as the news is concerned.

This is what Lois says: "Superman has been--and always will be the lead story when he's in action. Wherever he is and whatever he's doing is the biggest news story of that particular day. Period."

Think about the lives we live in our world today and what it would mean if someone like Superman had to go into action. It would mean there was a world threatening attack, a severe natural disaster, or something else major where lives hung in the balance. It's not that the other things you mentioned aren't worthy of the news or celebration, but that they would share news space with Superman rather than get the spotlight to themselves; since it's going to be a lead story that Superman by himself or along with his Justice League buddies save the world from annihilation. If something like a dramatic attack happened in our real lives, and lives were threatened and saved, and it wasn't the lead trend on Twitter and the top news story on websites, newspapers, and television, I would be shocked and disappointed. I would want to turn on the evening news or go to a website like Huffington Post to see it discussed. I'd want to see other news stories presented too, but it's only natural that Superman stories would get Superman level coverage.

[wagthedog]

"Superman is being a bit of a [choose your expletive]. Accusing both Diana and Lois of betraying him. Pretty much screams mind control. I thought he was immune to that these days?"

just another tuesday for superman on new 52

I am not up to date on my comics since quitting, but why is he immune to mind attacks? Did you just make that up or was there a story that involved him being immune to mind attacks or control?

[Aula_Magna]

I feel like I'm watching a codependent relationship flourish

[brettc1]

I am not up to date on my comics since quitting, but why is he immune to mind attacks? Did you just make that up or was there a story that involved him being immune to mind attacks or control?

Can't he shut his brain down when mind control is in play? But perhaps only if he knows about it.

which, come to think of it, would render that ability almost useless.

[brettc1]

This is what Lois says: "Superman has been--and always will be the lead story when he's in action. Wherever he is and whatever he's doing is the biggest news story of that particular day. Period."

Think about the lives we live in our world today and what it would mean if someone like Superman had to go into action. It would mean there was a world threatening attack, a severe natural disaster, or something else major where lives hung in the balance. It's not that the other things you mentioned aren't worthy of the news or celebration, but that they would share news space with Superman rather than get the spotlight to themselves; since it's going to be a lead story that Superman by himself or along with his Justice League buddies save the world from annihilation. If something like a dramatic attack happened in our real lives, and lives were threatened and saved, and it wasn't the lead trend on Twitter and the top news story on websites, newspapers, and television, I would be shocked and disappointed. I would want to turn on the evening news or go to a website like Huffington Post to see it discussed. I'd want to see other news stories presented too, but it's only natural that Superman stories would get Superman level coverage.

Yes, but Lois does not qualify what the action is. It might be the plant under attack, or it might be something like a car going over a bridge and into a river in Metropolis.

Now saving the people in that car would be pretty heroic. But if a normal guy then saved the person inside, would it get the same coverage as somebody else saving ten kids Fromm a bus?

In one way this statement represents the failure of the news media, and sadly Lois and Clarks own perpetuation of that failure (though Clark not so much because he quit to do his own thing). superman saving one person is considered more newsworthy than, say, discovering a way to cure cancer. All other things being equal, celebrity trumps substance.

She also doesn't say they would share the spotlight. She says he would be the lead story, and therefore they would be somewhere behind.

So if Superman and Wonder Woman tean up to beat Magog, they get the front page. But Superman is battling the Parasite in Vegas while Wonder Woman is saving Los Angeles from aliens, Diana is going to have settle for page three.

[Sacred Knight]

I am not up to date on my comics since quitting, but why is he immune to mind attacks? Did you just make that up or was there a story that involved him being immune to mind attacks or control?

He's not. Its not entirely made up though, as Lobdell did write something during his run about Orion implementing some mental blocks for Superman. But, that very arc was all about mind control of which Superman was still not immune so it was pretty much worthless.

[dumbduck]

First and most importantly - even off panel, Steve is awesome. Yay!

So much for the idea that he is a mere government stooge



Second - it seems to me it's not the eye of the guy asking the question Lois is looking into...



Superman is being a bit of a [choose your expletive]. Accusing both Diana and Lois of betraying him. Pretty much screams mind control. I thought he was immune to that these days?

And in case it wasn't perfectly obvious, this is by and large a Superman driven story.

Which is interesting, since in the issue is pointed out very plainly [see above] that nothing anything anybody else does on Earth matters compared to Superman. You could have found the cure for cancer or saved a bus full or orphans from going over a cliff, but according to Lois you will still not be as significant as whatever Superman is getting up to as far as the news is concerned.

I'm on the camp that Lois had every right to be angry and talk down the interrogator. She's not risking anything either, Wonder Woman is right there and she's under her protection, she knows Diana is one of the good guys.

About Lois saying that Superman is always the lead story, many explanations - She's a part of Superman's cast, she lives in Metropolis and thus has a bias, Diana lives in London so Lois has less contact and interest in her, it's part of her confrontational attitude towards Diana that you detected in that page.

If it was Steve he'd have more knowledge of what Diana has acomplished and he'd say she's the nr.1 worry of the government.

Coming back about Lois looking at Diana, I guess that's the most meta Tomasi and Mahnke can get without accusations of writing a sexist catfight.

Unfortunately I saw Clark's douchy attitude coming since SM/WW #19. I don't like it and I dont know which is worse, him being such a douche or being mind controlled. I advocate that Diana shouldn't be Ms Perfect, I defend that she should be allowed to have flaws, like a temper. In this same issue I defend that Lois had every right to be angry. But Clark's attitude here is one order of magnitude worse. What Diana did was the best solution to stop the government harrassing his friends.

There's a flaw in his rationale of wanting to protect her from being 'tainted' by him - Diana already fully involved herself with him when she chose to give custody of Zod to him instead of ARGUS. I'd think he'd already learned by now the choices she makes.

edit - Althought she wasnt a queen back then. It's still a hare brained and forced reason for him to feel betrayed.

[Aula_Magna]

Steve would never and has never, to my knowledge, said anything along those lines. They don't make 'Batman v Wonder Woman: dawn of justice' movies and 'Injustice: Wonder Woman's gone mad' video games. Yes the DC world revolves around Superman

Superman's been pretty cold towards Wonder Woman, he was a straight up jerk this week but she doesn't even bat an eyelash. Oh she's a confident, well adjusted woman, some would say. To me she's coming across as clingy, psycho, essentially codependent. Anyone who's ever seen a brazilian telenovela knows what I'm talking about.

[brettc1]

Steve would never and has never, to my knowledge, said anything along those lines. They don't make 'Batman v Wonder Woman: dawn of justice' movies and 'Injustice: Wonder Woman's gone mad' video games. Yes the DC world revolves around Superman

Superman's been pretty cold towards Wonder Woman, he was a straight up jerk this week but she doesn't even bat an eyelash. Oh she's a confident, well adjusted woman, some would say. To me she's coming across as clingy, psycho, essentially codependent. Anyone who's ever seen a brazilian telenovela knows what I'm talking about.

To me, Diana actually comes across as having a better showing than Lois because she keeps her emotions in check. That cold look she gives Ms Lane during the questioning is as close as she ever lets her come to what I expect she actually thinking.

I don't mind Lois being angry - I don't ever like seeing character outright calling somebody a moron. If Lex Luthor did it to Jimmy Olsen, we would know it was bad. If anybody was going to be called a moron this issue it's Clark, because at the least the guy in glasses has the excuse of having orders from the President to carry out. But the worst I would ever say with somebody is the they are "acting like a moron." And even then, I wouldn't expect it to do any good with swaying them to my point of view.

It's weird. Folks say "Respect is something you earn." But then just as often they say "Everyone should expect to be treated respectfully." Does somebody I have never met before deserve no respect from me because they have done nothing to earn it. That makes no sense at all.

I also don't see how Steve played Clark and Diana. He HELPED Diana get her boyfriend out of a jam and mitigate the damage of ARGUS putting his friends into quarantine.

[RealWonderman]

I'm sorry. But this wardrobe. I just...I can't. Especially when we have her looking so perfect in JL.

[brettc1]

I'm sorry. But this wardrobe. I just...I can't. Especially when we have her looking so perfect in JL.

Yeah, I feel your pain dude.

It's like Tony Stark got bored and designed armor for the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

[RealWonderman]

Yeah, I feel your pain dude.

It's like Tony Stark got bored and designed armor for the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

OMGS. That may very well be the exact discussion they had around this change!

[Tayswift]

Steve would never and has never, to my knowledge, said anything along those lines. They don't make 'Batman v Wonder Woman: dawn of justice' movies and 'Injustice: Wonder Woman's gone mad' video games. Yes the DC world revolves around Superman

Superman's been pretty cold towards Wonder Woman, he was a straight up jerk this week but she doesn't even bat an eyelash. Oh she's a confident, well adjusted woman, some would say. To me she's coming across as clingy, psycho, essentially codependent. Anyone who's ever seen a brazilian telenovela knows what I'm talking about.

wonder woman is like a shadow for superman and batman. when we will get a dark knight returns or a kingdom come for ww?

I just hope wonder woman will wake up that superman doesn't deserves her love, and stop trying to do everything to please him and move on. she just too dependent on him.

I don' tthink lois did anything wrong, is not like she did beat the guy. she was sitting with the lasso of truth on her, wonder owman was just standing there all powerful.
I don't think what wonder woman did was right, but it also isn't betrayal