Superman Wonder Woman #21 [whole issue] Discussion and Spoilers

[brettc1]

Its probably completely irrelevant, in fact. Resolving their relationship is a plot point in the Superman book, not SM/WW. Just like Superman's relationship with Metropolis is being covered in Action, and his relationship with Gordon is being covered in BM/SM.

How can the relationship between Clark and Lois be irrelevant to the relationship between Superman and Wonder Woman when its easy to see that the Superman/Wonder Woman book is linking in with the ongoing story in all the other Superman titles?

That makes no sense.

[brettc1]

No, all it shows is that you don't pay attention to people you talk to. I've argued that no tension between Lois and Clark has been portrayed as being a problem in Superman and Wonder Woman's relationship. And it has not.

...yet.

But a key point of discussion on boards like these is not just what has happened, and what is happening, but also what might happen.

And if there is something between Lois and Clark, it might prove a factor. So its a legitimate point for discussion as long as we all abide by the rules for posting

Edit - unless the mods disagree of course

But even in THIS particular issue that the thread is about there is some stuff going on between Lois and Diana that links back to the romantic side of things, resolved or otherwise.

[Sacred Knight]

If it comes up as a legit problem for them in the future, fine. Whatever they want to do. But until then, the well is dry; one writer's thoughts on how he processes the still platonic dynamic between Lois and Clark in a book which Diana and Clark's relationship doesn't feature at all doesn't really say much of anything.

[Majesty]

The obvious answer is that Lois and Clark are eventually going to become an item and start dating once they've both matured into the people they will become in order to date one another. IE: After they both "Grow up" a bit.

Yes.. Wonder Woman is Superman's "adolescent" phase when it comes to dating women and Lois will be the "I'm mature enough to start thinking about a future" girl in his life.

IT's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when". The "when" probably isn't for a little while after his breakup with Diana which is coming. They could think of a better storyline for it, but if this is the 'last of the ideas' they had, then it's best they get it over with now before they murk it up anymore than they already have by this point.

Superman's actions are his own and it is just how he's being written for this arc to happen. They couldn't think of any better ideas. Assuming he's "mind controlled" is giving way too much of an out to the writers that aren't even thinking that. This is how they think Superman acts and how they are going to write this story and conflict between him and Diana.

We've seen it hundreds of times in comics and will see it again. But if this is what it has come down to in terms of 'creative' then it's best they end it now before this start to becomes more of a standard habit.

[Sacred Knight]

Its not that obvious. And it is indeed a matter of if. Neither character needs to be with one another for growth nor to be full. That's a post-Crisis fan-devised fallacy based on a sense of comfort; that being all they knew as readers until 2011. They functioned just fine for decades not being monogamous. Hell they functioned just fine (you could argue at their best) with their relationship status being played purely as a source of comedy. So the fact is that DC is under no time limit here. There's no clock counting down to when the Superman mythos will implode if these two aren't a serious couple. DC can go any number of directions, its completely their will, with their hands tied not even a little bit. Hell they could break off this current relationship and put Superman with Lee if they wanted to. They can actually use Jonathan or develop a relationship with someone else. Sky's the limit. They have to be important to each other and she has to be, in general, the main supporting cast member. That's the "forever" thing that you don't mess with. Again in general. But in terms of romance not all roads for Superman lead to Lois and not all roads for Lois lead to Superman. Its a possibility. But so are a lot of other things. I'm just saying, those who are still thinking its sacrosanct could be in for a shell shock as the years continue to roll by.

[brettc1]

If it comes up as a legit problem for them in the future, fine. Whatever they want to do. But until then, the well is dry; one writer's thoughts on how he processes the still platonic dynamic between Lois and Clark in a book which Diana and Clark's relationship doesn't feature at all doesn't really say much of anything.

It says more than nothing, and can serve as a legitimate point of speculation.

Lois gets cranky with the questioning and is looking directly at Wonder Woman when she talks about who everybody really wants to know about whether there was a romance.

Diana shows a cranky side when her date with Clark is interrupted by Lois.

Lois touches Clark's face while she talks about how they are "just friends".

Clark "drunk dials" Lois for a booty call when under the influence of the Doomsday virus.

Yang talks about how there is something lingering between the two characters.

Individually these things don't seem to mean much by collectively they paint a more compelling picture.

[chlj1]

Right now I'm very upset with Dc comics!! It seems they want to make every heroes a tortured souls like the BatGod!! First they did it with WW, changing her history. I think of her as a anti-hero now. It's only a matter of time before she give into her murdering War God side!! Now their changing SM a kind and caring person into an A-hole, just like what they did to WW!! The trend in comics today is to turn everybody into an A-hole!! I guess you should call this the age of the A-hole in comics!!

[chlj1]

double post, sorry!!

[Tayswift]

The obvious answer is that Lois and Clark are eventually going to become an item and start dating once they've both matured into the people they will become in order to date one another. IE: After they both "Grow up" a bit.

Yes.. Wonder Woman is Superman's "adolescent" phase when it comes to dating women and Lois will be the "I'm mature enough to start thinking about a future" girl in his life.

[b]IT's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when". [b] The "when" probably isn't for a little while after his breakup with Diana which is coming. They could think of a better storyline for it, but if this is the 'last of the ideas' they had, then it's best they get it over with now before they murk it up anymore than they already have by this point.

Superman's actions are his own and it is just how he's being written for this arc to happen. They couldn't think of any better ideas. Assuming he's "mind controlled" is giving way too much of an out to the writers that aren't even thinking that. This is how they think Superman acts and how they are going to write this story and conflict between him and Diana.

We've seen it hundreds of times in comics and will see it again. But if this is what it has come down to in terms of 'creative' then it's best they end it now before this start to becomes more of a standard habit.

it's always a matter of when, yang already exploring his relationship to Lois, johns is having wonder woman still with unresolved feelings with trevor, even finches said they were more interested on trevor. berganza probably did a good job with his boss to keep this relationship. they need to part ways to keep rolling each franchise

[ssupes]

It says more than nothing, and can serve as a legitimate point of speculation.

Lois gets cranky with the questioning and is looking directly at Wonder Woman when she talks about who everybody really wants to know about whether there was a romance.

Diana shows a cranky side when her date with Clark is interrupted by Lois.

Lois touches Clark's face while she talks about how they are "just friends".

Clark "drunk dials" Lois for a booty call when under the influence of the Doomsday virus.

Yang talks about how there is something lingering between the two characters.

Individually these things don't seem to mean much by collectively they paint a more compelling picture.

Why should it be speculated when all you have to do is look at the history of the previous continuity when the shoe was on the other foot and the only thing it lead to was a awkward interview and a outburst that wasn't even Lois but some shape shifter. So even with the evidence compiled together, history has proven that they wouldn't break up a relationship and have the character immediately start dating someone else.

[Aula_Magna]

The obvious answer is that Lois and Clark are eventually going to become an item and start dating once they've both matured into the people they will become in order to date one another. IE: After they both "Grow up" a bit.

Yes.. Wonder Woman is Superman's "adolescent" phase when it comes to dating women and Lois will be the "I'm mature enough to start thinking about a future" girl in his life.

IT's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when". The "when" probably isn't for a little while after his breakup with Diana which is coming. They could think of a better storyline for it, but if this is the 'last of the ideas' they had, then it's best they get it over with now before they murk it up anymore than they already have by this point.

Superman's actions are his own and it is just how he's being written for this arc to happen. They couldn't think of any better ideas. Assuming he's "mind controlled" is giving way too much of an out to the writers that aren't even thinking that. This is how they think Superman acts and how they are going to write this story and conflict between him and Diana.

We've seen it hundreds of times in comics and will see it again. But if this is what it has come down to in terms of 'creative' then it's best they end it now before this start to becomes more of a standard habit.

The implication is that Lois is the one true love of his life but circumstances keep them apart so there's unresolved sexual tension between them. The first roadblock in their relationship-to-be was her boyfriend Jonathan Carroll, now that role's been passed onto Wonder Woman, she's basically the false romantic lead, the wedge they threw between her and Superman, she's an alternative to Lois.

I mean the question that everyone debated was, who's better for Superman right now - if a) supporting character_Lois Lane or b) supporting character_Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman was offered to him…not the other way around.

I've been saying this before I even knew Wonder Woman belonged to the Superman office, Wonder Woman is, to all intents and purposes, a Superman supporting character. In every Superman-centric novel, there she is playing her little supporting role, and it's almost always a character assassination to boot. Obviously SM/WW skews veeeeeeery heavily towards the Superman fans

[Silvanus]

I'm surprised there's not more excitement among Wonder Woman fans--especially those who have been wanting to see more old WW rogues (paging Dr. Poison...) --about Angle Man's role in all this (as White House Chief of Staff, no less!). I didn't realize that Mr. Bend was Angle Man (aka Angelo Bend) until Nyssane pointed it out on another thread, but now that I know it, I think it adds a little interest to the story for me.

[brettc1]

Why should it be speculated when all you have to do is look at the history of the previous continuity when the shoe was on the other foot and the only thing it lead to was a awkward interview and a outburst that wasn't even Lois but some shape shifter. So even with the evidence compiled together, history has proven that they wouldn't break up a relationship and have the character immediately start dating someone else.

Why does it have to be an immediate swap to provoke discussion?

[brettc1]

I'm surprised there's not more excitement among Wonder Woman fans--especially those who have been wanting to see more old WW rogues (paging Dr. Poison...) --about Angle Man's role in all this (as White House Chief of Staff, no less!). I didn't realize that Mr. Bend was Angle Man (aka Angelo Bend) until Nyssane pointed it out on another thread, but now that I know it, I think it adds a little interest to the story for me.

Maybe because a lot of the fans who used to post here whonwould even know who he is didn't hang around long in the New52?

[ssupes]

Why should it be speculated when all you have to do is look at the history of the previous continuity when the shoe was on the other foot and the only thing it lead to was a awkward interview and a outburst that wasn't even Lois but some shape shifter. So even with the evidence compiled together, history has proven that they wouldn't break up a relationship and have the character immediately start dating someone else.

I don't know why this is being discussed period other then to tick people off, but are you not insinuating that Clark has feelings for Lois and if he breaks up with Diana it will be because of that?