Superman Wonder Woman #21 [whole issue] Discussion and Spoilers

[Tayswift]

Different strokes for different folks - I am of course biased - see my avatar - but in this case I am reminded of a nephew - cute lil fellow and first kid in the family after a good long while - as soon as he saw anyone's hand coming towards his cheek he immediately held it to keep it away as he had his cheek pinched on a couple of occasions - see the next panel - Clark immediately changes the subject - which makes me want to think he is holding on to keep away Lois' hand from lingering

Just my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation)

one time this situation happened with me, I just gave a light slap on the person hand. I was really surprised the person did that, because i was just joking about it. Clark is holding lois hand very dearly and then he takes it off his face and ask her to stab him seems very flirty to me. and later on bus he really likes to hold her hands.

superman is a big jerk than batman, orion or steve. and for sure wonder woman won't have self love

[ManSinha]

Clark is holding lois hand very dearly and then he takes it off his face and ask her to stab him seems very flirty to me. and later on bus he really likes to hold her hands.

Yeah but even when depowered you are not a Kryptonian - Clark still has to be mindful of swatting people away - he could injure them

superman is a big jerk than batman, orion or steve. and for sure wonder woman won't have self love

As many have said - not sure if it the influence of Wrath or something else making him act like one but the others you mention also have had their time on comic panels

[brettc1]

Gosh, I wish I was Superman.

Then all my bad decisions could be pinned on mind control.

[brettc1]

Q: What do you call it when Superman is suffering from mind control?

A: spoilers:

.....................Tuesday...................... .

end of spoilers

[Aula_Magna]

Everything Superman told Wonder Woman struck me as the sort of holier than thou gibberish they would have him say, mind control didn't even cross my mind. It's just that he looks extra douchey thanks to Manhke, which I think affects people's perception of him, a good bit actually.

[Tayswift]

Gosh, I wish I was Superman.

Then all my bad decisions could be pinned on mind control.

how many times on new 52 superman suffered by mind control? ahahah it's like every week and it's not like superman is getting more careful to avoid it. pre flashpoint superboy konel) trained with the best mind master to create protection against mind control. it just a poor excuse

i never thought it was mind control too, just the usual "hero under pression become a jerk"

Yeah but even when depowered you are not a Kryptonian - Clark still has to be mindful of swatting people away - he could injure them

or superman just liked to touch lois hands, the focus on panel is superman holding lois hand, not him taking it off from his face.

[Sacred Knight]

Its being considered because its so out of character. If you honestly see that as Superman acting like his normal self then there's nothing left to say because there's obviously a fundamental ignorance of the character going on there. And no, its not in character for the New 52 version either, to quell that typical rebuttal. So its either mind control or bad writing. With a choice between the two I'm hoping for the former is all.

[brettc1]

Its being considered because its so out of character. If you honestly see that as Superman acting like his normal self then there's nothing left to say because there's obviously a fundamental ignorance of the character going on there. And no, its not in character for the New 52 version either, to quell that typical rebuttal. So its either mind control or bad writing. With a choice between the two I'm hoping for the former is all.

Well, the thing on taking "new spins" on characters is that sometimes you go to places many readers don't like. You are certainly on the right forum to discuss that

The writers of THIS story might say "We are taking Superman to a place he's never been before, and you are going to see a different side of him. This is not going to be your typical Superman." And some some readers will cheer for the end of the big blue boys out.

And then you and others might argue he was NEVER really a boyscout, and then the others might agree with you but say this has been coming since way back when, or is more true to his origin back in the 30's. And still others will talk about how this is a younger edgier Superman, and the arguments will rage back and forth.

Believe me SK, anybody who has spent more than 5 minutes on the Wonder Woman boards can empathise.

[Sacred Knight]

Hell, and I'm all for that. I'm for the edgier Superman, I was tired how meek he became before the reboot. I'm all for different sides. But it'd be nice if it made some semblance of sense, you know? If he was going to be mad about Diana betraying him, at least make it something someone would believably see as a betrayal. Helping save your town and Metropolis friends is not a betrayal. And the fact she partook in the questioning doesn't wash either. That I could see him being a little annoyed with, as he obviously feels they shouldn't have been questioned at all. And he's right there, imo. But its not like they were strapped down and waterboarded. So the only thing I can think of that's going on here is that something is making him overly angry. And again the main villain of Action, and one of the four main villains of this whole story, explicitly does that as her power.

[brettc1]

Hell, and I'm all for that. I'm for the edgier Superman, I was tired how meek he became before the reboot. I'm all for different sides. But it'd be nice if it made some semblance of sense, you know? If he was going to be mad about Diana betraying him, at least make it something someone would believably see as a betrayal. Helping save your town and Metropolis friends is not a betrayal. And the fact she partook in the questioning doesn't wash either. That I could see him being a little annoyed with, as he obviously feels they shouldn't have been questioned at all. And he's right there, imo. But its not like they were strapped down and waterboarded. So the only thing I can think of that's going on here is that something is making him overly angry. And again the main villain of Action, and one of the four main villains of this whole story, explicitly does that as her power.

Well if that's the case all I can say is it's poor writing even if that is The explanation, because you are leveraging readers into buying Supermans own books to follow what is happening. Pretty much exactly what happened in Doomed. When A Wonder Woman story pops up its is all self contained, but when it's a Superman arc is in the book you have to buy four other titles to understand it.

Which makes it not so hard to see why Awonder refers to this title as SM/+1.

[Sacred Knight]

That's a fair complaint. I've never argued that the book hasn't heavily favored Superman in terms of plot points. We'll probably always be on a different wavelength in regards to her characterization, as I think she's been way stronger a character than Superman despite the plots revolving around him (except the Magog/Circe arc which was refreshingly balanced plot-wise). But I will agree her mythos has drawn the short stick in regards to what stories are based on thus far.

[Nyssane]

Is Mr. Bend supposed to be Angle Man (since his real name is Angelo Bend)? It seems too close to be a coincidence, and it'd mean more balance for WW.

[dumbduck]

I side with Superman, he's sick of his ladies thinking they know better than he does. He's Superman, he has earned the right to have people just do what he tells them, even if it sounds completely irrational at the time, and trust he knows what he is doing. It's worked so far. He let Louis know his secret and it took her, what, 24 hours to betray it? She would've exposed him even if she hadn't found a way to act like it was for his greater good. She even said as much when being Lasso waterboarded that the reporter in her would've had to report that story.

So, SM/WW #21 in a nutshell:


http://forum.unity3d.com/attachments...man-jpg.51340/


http://www.redboots.net/comics/daily23.JPG


http://www.comicartfans.com/galleryp...p?piece=947495

[Ragdoll]

So I've been thinking, and Superman probably wouldn't be so mad at Louis exposing him and Wonder Woman "betraying" him if he wasn't simultaneously depowered. If he had his powers, he wouldn't care that his cover is blown because people wouldn't be able to step to him anyways. So now that he is more human than ever, I am standing by my statement that he is right to be mad at everyone. It isn't completely rational, but Superman is no longer flawless and has every right to think like a human, he is as vulnerable as one. Once he gets his powers back and can reflect on his actions, he will apologize for his uncharacteristic behavior, but as a fellow easily irritated human, I sympathize with him.

[Aula_Magna]

What did Superman do that was so bad besides being a self-righteous douche, it's not like it's the first time we're seeing that side of him, after all he's Mr.Proper. His sense of morality is a lot stronger than Wonder Woman's, that's kind of a recurrent theme in SM/WW so of course he was upset that she lassoed his friends, she came this close to finding out that he spent the night with Lois, plus it's tantamount to torture! And she disobeyed his master, he's not used to that

Remember the day they met, when Wonder Woman gave a speech while a man died in front of her. Maybe Wrath was behind that too. Anyway, I thought the fact that the government snatched his friends, dup up his parents caskets and the sense of powerlessness accounted for the sky high stress levels he's experiencing right now. But no, someone's doing this to him. Got it