Your DC-Only controversial opinions...

[The Darknight Detective]

It was Aly McBeal Wonder Woman, done by the same guy too.

I just saw the screen test. That was maybe the most dreadful thing I have ever seen. I know William Dozier hated comics, but couldn't he have made his shows more like his The Green Hornet?

[Götterdämmerung]

Given the story lines in last 20 years the thread "The Flash is not about tragedy" appreciation thread always brings a grin to my face.

I'm guessing the whole Barry's-tragic-Mom loss thing might be responsible for that. I never thought Waid's 90s Wally was about tragedy, that's for sure.

The whole Dark Knight overload (and I mean the concept as a whole being run into the ground years ago) is responsible for the turn in comics (including Johns' overall inferior Barry); most especially DC but to a degree Marvel as well. I mean, Marvel seemed to have already been on board with characters with disastrously dark chapters in the 70s (Spider-man/Gwen, Warlock in general, Mar-Vell's ending etc.). But, decades after Miller's wildly overrated franchise, DC seems to be taking a rusty baseball bat to the bone-rotted dark horse imo.

As much as I dislike too much levity in superheroics, I'm getting abysmally burnt on the darkness.

[Trey Strain]

I just Googled "pre-Flashpoint" and "comic book resources" and here's what I got.

About 6,660 results (0.32 seconds)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Trey Strain]

I'm guessing the whole Barry's-tragic-Mom loss thing might be responsible for that. I never thought Waid's 90s Wally was about tragedy, that's for sure.

The whole Dark Knight overload (and I mean the concept as a whole being run into the ground years ago) is responsible for the turn in comics (including Johns' overall inferior Barry); most especially DC but to a degree Marvel as well. I mean, Marvel seemed to have already been on board with characters with disastrously dark chapters in the 70s (Spider-man/Gwen, Warlock in general, Mar-Vell's ending etc.). But, decades after Miller's wildly overrated franchise, DC seems to be taking a rusty baseball bat to the bone-rotted dark horse imo.

As much as I dislike too much levity in superheroics, I'm getting abysmally burnt on the darkness.

And you know what? There's stuff that they won't do because they'd say it's a "bad influence."

If you had a page that showed the Joker smoking a cigarette, kicking a puppy and calling Batman "Batfag," I bet it wouldn't get past the editor.

[Götterdämmerung]

And you know what? There's stuff that they won't do because they'd say it's a "bad influence."

If you had a page that showed the Joker smoking a cigarette, kicking a puppy and calling Batman "Batfag," I bet it wouldn't get past the editor.

I agree, but I wonder if you have a problem with that (because I do, at least to some degree).

[Trey Strain]

I agree, but I wonder if you have a problem with that (because I do, at least to some degree).

You're supposed to have a problem with what the Joker does. But is that really "worse" than a million other things he's done? And if so, why?

Murdering people is acceptable behavior for a villain in a comic, but political incorrectness is not? And if so, then how did that situation develop?

[Götterdämmerung]

You're supposed to have a problem with what the Joker does. But is that really "worse" than a million other things he's done? And if so, why?

Murdering people is acceptable behavior for a villain in a comic, but political incorrectness is not? And if so, then how did that situation develop?

Actually, the latter is exactly what I have a problem with...at least to a degree. Why does it mostly just have to be the Red Skull who's an elitist scumbag? And isn't the entire Nazi/Stalinist/animal abusing thing considered one of the most despicable attributes in anyone? Thus, fertile ground for raising people's collective ires and making the basher even more of a hero. In my eyes one of the greatest, most cheer-worthy images ever in comics is Cap punching Hitler in the face!

[Crazy Diamond]

Actually, the latter is exactly what I have a problem with...at least to a degree. Why does it mostly just have to be the Red Skull who's an elitist scumbag? And isn't the entire Nazi/Stalinist/animal abusing thing considered one of the most despicable attributes in anyone? Thus, fertile ground for raising people's collective ires and making the basher even more of a hero. In my eyes one of the greatest, most cheer-worthy images ever in comics is Cap punching Hitler in the face!

Reducing homophobia to a bad guy trait underestimates how damaging it is in real life. It also makes it come off like "only really bad people would be homophobic/animal abusers/racist/etc" which then leads to the kind of mindset you see from time to time where the person is like "I can't be homophobic because I don't call people fags so you're just being oversenstive/SJW/etc.!"

The real political correctness is the defense of the status quo. Look at how upset some people get over Black Lives Matter. Or when people respond to their oh so brilliant jokes. Or would you be okay with the Joker calling Batman a cracker?

Besides, the Joker is pretty flamboyant to begin with. Why would he be concerned about whether someone is gay or not?

[Götterdämmerung]

Reducing homophobia to a bad guy trait underestimates how damaging it is in real life. It also makes it come off like "only really bad people would be homophobic/animal abusers/racist/etc" which then leads to the kind of mindset you see from time to time where the person is like "I can't be homophobic because I don't call people fags so you're just being oversenstive/SJW/etc.!"

The real political correctness is the defense of the status quo. Look at how upset some people get over Black Lives Matter. Or when people respond to their oh so brilliant jokes. Or would you be okay with the Joker calling Batman a cracker?

Besides, the Joker is pretty flamboyant to begin with. Why would he be concerned about whether someone is gay or not?

All excellent points. I'd laugh like hell if the Joker called Batman a cracker, and already laughing now!!! I'm of mostly Southern Italy descent.

[manofsteel1979]

Hmm...you might be opening a can of worms, it's a very controversial story.

I go back and forth on my own feelings about it all the time. I'd say the art is great and the mechanics of the writing is well done. However, the story suffers from trying to hard to be SERIOUS and EDGY.

My feeling as well. On it's own, I quite like it. If one approaches it like a self contained novel using these characters without regard for what the consequences were to the larger continuity it's a darn good and powerful story with lots of nice moments. The problem with it was the lynchpin for DiDio's transformation of the DCU and thus is ended up taking the DCU down a dark and grim and convoluted path that screwed things up to the point we got the New 52.

[Trey Strain]

Reducing homophobia to a bad guy trait underestimates how damaging it is in real life. It also makes it come off like "only really bad people would be homophobic/animal abusers/racist/etc" which then leads to the kind of mindset you see from time to time where the person is like "I can't be homophobic because I don't call people fags so you're just being oversenstive/SJW/etc.!"

The real political correctness is the defense of the status quo. Look at how upset some people get over Black Lives Matter. Or when people respond to their oh so brilliant jokes. Or would you be okay with the Joker calling Batman a cracker?

Besides, the Joker is pretty flamboyant to begin with. Why would he be concerned about whether someone is gay or not?

He could taunt Batman for not having the guts to come out.

[Crazy Diamond]

He could taunt Batman for not having the guts to come out.

He does that every time he comes to fight Batman. I'm not sure what would be different unless if there's something missing there...

[ed2962]

I need help with this one, but I seem to remember an old story in the Comics Journal around the time the first Keaton/Burton Batman was released and the suggestion was that DC management had either Morrison's script or part of the art altered in Arkum Asylum changed to lessen "gay" implication? Joker in a dress??

It's been a long time so my memory isn't the best...

[ed2962]

You're supposed to have a problem with what the Joker does. But is that really "worse" than a million other things he's done? And if so, why?

Murdering people is acceptable behavior for a villain in a comic, but political incorrectness is not? And if so, then how did that situation develop?

I think it depends. It's not really the act depicted rather, but how it's depicted and to what effect. If Joker was smoking a cigarette, I don't think anyone would care except Joe Quesada. If Joker kicked a puppy and he was seen to be punished specially for kicking it, I think folks would let it go. If Joker said "Batfag" and the story was about homophobia most fans would understand, but if it was done for cheap laffs, I can see people getting upset.

[Trey Strain]

I think it depends. It's not really the act depicted rather, but how it's depicted and to what effect. If Joker was smoking a cigarette, I don't think anyone would care except Joe Quesada. If Joker kicked a puppy and he was seen to be punished specially for kicking it, I think folks would let it go. If Joker said "Batfag" and the story was about homophobia most fans would understand, but if it was done for cheap laffs, I can see people getting upset.

His calling Batman "Batfag" is not any cooler or funnier than his kicking a puppy, is it? But I bet some people who are just fine with the Joker wantonly slaughtering people would complain about it. That's just how political correctness works.